DCA - American Airlines passenger plane collides with Blackhawk over the Potomac River, all 67 on both dead, 29 Jan 2025

[Izzylizzy]

And his name is Maravilla.
Meaning: Miracle
(Spanish)

Just saying....

Wow! Thank you.

That certainly gives NEW meaning to
"your name is everything".

 

[Sarahlou]

So young

Angela Yang and Sean Kay

Angela Yang & Sean Kay | Free Dance | Juvenile | 2024 Dallas Classic | 2024-2025 Season | Ice-Dance.com's Photography Section

View attachment 561496

Oh this is heartbreaking
RIP to all.

 

[justtrish]

You have to realise the very different speeds involved here. The helicopter, by comparison, is slow moving, but it had every opportunity to not be in the way, it is far more manoeuvrable and can make far sharper turns. The plane could have made no evasive action at all, it was coming way too fast and had every expectation that the way was clear.

MOO

I wasn't suggesting the plane should have taken evasive action. I am saying the plane seems to be on one course and the helicopter took action to avoid it, then the plane is turning (perhaphs the helicopter was not aware the plane was tuning when it did) and now the helicopter is in the way again. I was questioning if runway 1 was the original path and the helicopter moves to avoid that path, then the plane turns toward runway 33 and this now puts the helicopter in it's path again. That is all.

 

[DS2021]

some footage of Jinna Han skating

 

[Joe Friday]

<modsnip: Removed due to opinion stated as fact. At this time there is no known fact to support such an accusation>

The tower controller asked the American Airlines plane if they could take Rwy 33 which put the plane further east and at a lower altitude over the river on it's approach to that runway. The controller should have known the helicopter was flying along the river and this would potentially place the helicopter and the airliner in a direct collision course, since the American plane would be at a lower altitude on final as it crossed the river on approach for Rwy 33. Had the American Airlines plane landed on Rwy 1, as all the other planes were doing, it would have been at a higher altitude when crossing the river further to the south of the airports and would have flown over top the the helicopter.

I think the reason the controller asked if they could take Rwy 33 was to give more separation to the landing planes already on final approach to Rwy 1. By having the American plane turn to the east and land on Rwy 33 essentially took one plane out of the sequence of planes landing on Rwy 1, giving more separation to those planes landing on Rwy 1. This is a common practice by ATC, but in this case was a fatal mistake.

JMO

 

[DS2021]

Angela and Sean dancing

 

[DS2021]

should i start a separate memorial thread?

 

[iamshadow21]

I wasn't suggesting the plane should have taken evasive action. I am saying the plane seems to be on one course and the helicopter took action to avoid it, then the plane is turning (perhaphs the helicopter was not aware the plane was tuning when it did) and now the helicopter is in the way again. I was questioning if runway 1 was the original path and the helicopter moves to avoid that path, then the plane turns toward runway 33 and this now puts the helicopter in it's path again. That is all.

But the plane was travelling vastly faster.

There wouldn't have been time for the helicopter to see the plane at the last moment, correct, try to correct again.

We're talking walking speed versus excessive car speed, here, by comparison.

The helicopter is strolling along, the plane is a semi truck barreling along at highway speed.

All the helicopter could have done if it knew about the plane is hang back and stay out of the way. And it didn't, which tells me that they had no idea what they were heading into. There was no evasive action, just an inevitable journey to collision.

Which makes me wonder why they didn't respond to ATC. They had enough time to hear and respond and stay out of the way, and they didn't.

MOO

 

[PawneeDew]

"Young figure skater saved from doomed flight
because his dog was too big to board.

After Jon Maravilla was told he couldn't bring his dog onboard,
he decided to take a car instead.

View attachment 561485

The sport's national governing body,
US Figure Skating, confirmed that
'several members of our skating community' were on the flight'.

'These athletes, coaches, and family members were returning home from the National Development Camp
held in conjunction with the US Figure Skating Championships in Wichita, Kansas,'
they said in a statement.

'We are devastated by this unspeakable tragedy
and hold the victims' families closely in our hearts.

We will continue to monitor the situation and will release more information as it becomes available'."

RIP to the victims

Figure skater clears up claims he was denied boarding on doomed flight

A Russian media outlet originally reported that Maravilla was set to be among the passengers on board the fateful American Airlines flight before he was barred due to the size of his dog.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I Love dogs.

 

[justtrish]

But the plane was travelling vastly faster.

There wouldn't have been time for the helicopter to see the plane at the last moment, correct, try to correct again.

We're talking walking speed versus excessive car speed, here, by comparison.

The helicopter is strolling along, the plane is a semi truck barreling along at highway speed.

All the helicopter could have done if it knew about the plane is hang back and stay out of the way. And it didn't, which tells me that they had no idea what they were heading into. There was no evasive action, just an inevitable journey to collision.

Which makes me wonder why they didn't respond to ATC. They had enough time to hear and respond and stay out of the way, and they didn't.

MOO

My only thought on that is they originally said they had visual on the plane, but later when ATC was trying to contact them they said nothing because the plane they thought was the plane was not? If they were trying to find the plane the ATC was referring to before responding to them and maybe they just didn't see it. I don't know what it might look like inside the helicopter or what view you might have immediately above or at certain angles and above.. maybe they were not seeing the plane ATC was referring to and they didn't know it until it was too late. If they were watching a totally different plane maybe they realized too late?

I hope the black box from the helicopter will shed light on it. IF they are talking to each other inside the helicopter and looking for the plane hopefully that will be clear in the black box recording.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

While most military aircraft today also have radios that operate on the same VHF frequencies we used, military communications still heavily, even preferentially, operate on the completely incompatible UHF frequencies. Most air traffic facilities have both capabilities, but of course civilian aircraft only operate on VHF. Thus, you might hear a controller simultaneously transmitting on VHF while working and talking to military aircraft on UHF. Of course, you’ll only hear the VHF side, or, if the controller switches entirely, neither.

If you are flying near a military base, there is a good chance you won’t hear the military pilots talking to ATC. In this case, controllers could be working a single sector, but have two frequencies—one VHF and one UHF—assigned to that one sector.

ATC Radios and Sectors - IFR Magazine

Another day, same drill, but the controller is talking to another airplane on another frequency, so you might hear say again more than once. ATC is often tasked to use multiple frequencies at once. Its not the easiest thing to do with people talking on both, but we adapt and prioritize. One way...

www.ifr-magazine.com

 

[Dotta]

"Transport Secretary Sean Duffy claims a horror mid-air plane crash over Washington DC was 'preventable',
while American Airlines appeared to blame the pilot of a military helicopter that strayed into its path.

The helicopter was flying a training sortie
and cut through the airspace from the opposite direction under cover of darkness,
with both aircraft seemingly unaware of the other's presence.

More than 300 first responders and rescue workers were deployed to the Potomac on inflatable boats
while others erected searchlights to illuminate the murky waters in a desperate hunt for survivors.

At least 28 bodies have been pulled from the water as rescuers worked through the night in the vain hope of finding survivors.

Officials now believe no one survived,
and the focus of the search is recovering the bodies and notifying families."

Investigators examine key evidence from doomed American Airlines trip

LIVE UPDATES: Sixty passengers, four crew, and three US Army personnel are believed to be dead after the collision 400ft over the Potomac River in Washington DC.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[iamshadow21]

My only thought on that is they originally said they had visual on the plane, but later when ATC was trying to contact them they said nothing because the plane they thought was the plane was not? If they were trying to find the plane the ATC was referring to before responding to them and maybe they just didn't see it. I don't know what it might look like inside the helicopter or what view you might have immediately above or at certain angles and above.. maybe they were not seeing the plane ATC was referring to and they didn't know it until it was too late. If they were watching a totally different plane maybe they realized too late?

I hope the black box from the helicopter will shed light on it. IF they are talking to each other inside the helicopter and looking for the plane hopefully that will be clear in the black box recording.

They're still meant to respond promptly to ATC, everyone's safety relies on it. They didn't. Even if their reply is just 'WTF?' they're meant to reply so that ATC knows they've received the message.

I for one would like to know why they didn't respond, and didn't alter their course, which they would have had they received the warning.

MOO

 

[CHEL]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1884849637066260815

 

[justtrish]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1884849637066260815

Very insightful and follow up comments to this are also helpful. Exactly as I questioned earlier, how does ATC know and confirm that the helicopter has the actual plane ATC is talking about in their sights? How does the helo pilots confirm they are tracking the plane the ATC are referring to? This suggests it isn't possible to be sure they are talking about the same plane without the ATC mentioning the planes distance away, altitude, and direction. There are lots of planes in the sky.

 

[GarAndTeed]

x.com

x.com

View attachment 561493

Damn- this just breaks my heart...

 

[iamshadow21]

Yeah, it's now being widely reported that the six Boston skating victims were Evgenia Shishkova and Vadim Naumov (coaches and former world champions and Olympians), Jinna Han and her mother Jin, and Spencer Lee and his mother Molly. Jinna and Spencer were both sixteen.

Youth skaters, coaches from New England skating club were on plane that crashed in DC

Authorities say they fear there are no survivors after an American Airlines jet and an Army helicopter collided midair near Ronald Reagan National Airport in Washington.

www.wmtw.com

 

[Justice101]

<modsnip: Removed due to opinion stated as fact. At this time there is no known fact to support such an accusation>

The tower controller asked the American Airlines plane if they could take Rwy 33 which put the plane further east and at a lower altitude over the river on it's approach to that runway. The controller should have known the helicopter was flying along the river and this would potentially place the helicopter and the airliner in a direct collision course, since the American plane would be at a lower altitude on final as it crossed the river on approach for Rwy 33. Had the American Airlines plane landed on Rwy 1, as all the other planes were doing, it would have been at a higher altitude when crossing the river further to the south of the airports and would have flown over top the the helicopter.

I think the reason the controller asked if they could take Rwy 33 was to give more separation to the landing planes already on final approach to Rwy 1. By having the American plane turn to the east and land on Rwy 33 essentially took one plane out of the sequence of planes landing on Rwy 1, giving more separation to those planes landing on Rwy 1. This is a common practice by ATC, but in this case was a fatal mistake.

JMO

And assuming what you say was what actually happened, what would be the reason for the helo turned back abruptly due south towards flight 5342? Maybe because it thought the flight was landing on Rwy 1 and was "crossing behind it"? In that case, it would have grossly misjudged how far the jet was away?

And along those line, this was a small jet. If helicopter thought it was a bigger jet, it would look like a big jet in the distance.

Your thoughts @Joe Friday

Maybe like this via line of sight of the helicopter pilot???

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Here's another video by VASAviation that has the radio transmissions made by the Army helicopter PAT25.

They tell ATC two times that they have a visual on the CRJ.
JMO.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Angela and Sean dancing

Thank you for sharing the video of Angela and Sean dancing. It is beautiful to watch. I don’t know how old are, but they look very young and incredibly talented. Amidst the sadness of their tragic deaths, it felt comforting to take a moment to learn a bit about them and their incredible skating abilities.