DCA - American Airlines passenger plane collides with Blackhawk over the Potomac River, all 67 on both dead, 29 Jan 2025

[DoctorRose]

if this is off topic, please remove, but I watched Sean and Angela’s first place routine. Holy heck those kids were fearless, incredibly graceful. amazing skaters.

 

[Vaderman]

A day before D.C. plane crash, another jet landing at Reagan National had to ‘go-around’​

Updated
January 30, 2025 at 6:20 p.m. EST8 min ago
NTSB will be on crash scene for ‘as long as it takes’
0:43
National Transportation Safety Board member J. Todd Inman said on Jan. 30 that the agency intends to file a preliminary report within 30 days. (Video: Reuters)

1 min
Just 24 hours before the collision of American Eagle Flight 5342 and an Army Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan National Airport on Wednesday, another jet trying to land there had to make a second approach after a helicopter appeared near its flight path, according to an audio recording from air traffic control.


That plane, Republic Airways Flight 4514, eventually landed safely, flight tracker maps show.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2025/01/30/dc-plane-crash-updates-helicopter-potomac-reagan-airport/

It has seemed like there have been a lot of "near misses" lately.

 

[DS2021]

if this is off topic, please remove, but I watched Sean and Angela’s first place routine. Holy heck those kids were fearless, incredibly graceful. amazing skaters.

Im working on a memorial post now that (almost) all the names floating around have been confirmed

 

[MassGuy]

NEW: One of the flight data recorders of Flight 5342 has been recovered

https://twitter.com/x/status/1885112409024520568

 

[Dotta]

It is DC airport. It serves DC, the political center of the country. So I can see how it can combine a lot of traffic.

But, IMO,
if the passenger plane was in the final phase of landing and it was in accordance with the permission granted for an approach to landing,
no other aircraft or helicopter should have been in that space.

And...

Sure,
military training ought to be conducted in all conditions at any time of day,
in all weather conditions,
but...
with an appropriate safety margin,
and where the traffic is low.

JMO

 

[Herat]

A day before D.C. plane crash, another jet landing at Reagan National had to ‘go-around’​

Updated
January 30, 2025 at 6:20 p.m. EST8 min ago
NTSB will be on crash scene for ‘as long as it takes’
0:43
National Transportation Safety Board member J. Todd Inman said on Jan. 30 that the agency intends to file a preliminary report within 30 days. (Video: Reuters)

1 min
Just 24 hours before the collision of American Eagle Flight 5342 and an Army Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan National Airport on Wednesday, another jet trying to land there had to make a second approach after a helicopter appeared near its flight path, according to an audio recording from air traffic control.


That plane, Republic Airways Flight 4514, eventually landed safely, flight tracker maps show.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2025/01/30/dc-plane-crash-updates-helicopter-potomac-reagan-airport/

Wow.
So is the military abusing the priviledge of using Route 4 for non-emergency flights?

I've been on several Go-Arounds as a passenger and they are very alarming to passengers, as the pilot may or may not share exactly what the reason was. A couple have been for obvious storm activity and if the pilot did not want to land in the conditions, I sure didn't want them to force the issue. One was eventually explained as the flight crew wanted to assure the landing gear was fully down. Another was never really explained. Mine were in low-trafic conditions, but I think this would be really bothersome if there was high aircraft traffic in the area, especially at night.

It seems unacceptable for safe aviation purposes to be relying on passenger craft disruptions because of poor military flying.

 

[Arkay]

<modsnip>

In my opinion this is what it appears to be—-a blind spot on the part of one of the pilots and just a terrible, terrible, accidental tragedy that will hurt forever.

 

[SouthAussie]

NEW: One of the flight data recorders of Flight 5342 has been recovered

https://twitter.com/x/status/1885112409024520568

I think they have both of the black boxes now (from the plane), according to ABC.

I know they found one of them earlier. Link

Now they should be able to start comparing the cockpit voice recorder and the flight data recorder.


The flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder -- known as black boxes -- from the American Airlines plane have been recovered and are en route to the National Transportation Safety Board lab, per a source with direct knowledge.

DC plane crash updates: Remains of 55 victims recovered and positively identified

An American Airlines regional jet went down in the Potomac River near Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport.

abcnews.go.com

 

[Herat]

But, IMO,
if the passenger plane was in the final phase of landing and it was in accordance with the permission granted for an approach to landing,
no other aircraft or helicopter should have been in that space.

And...
Sure,
military training ought to be conducted in all conditions at any time of day,
in all weather conditions,
but...
with an appropriate safety margin,
and where the traffic is low.

JMO

I'm sure happy to let airline companies know that I no longer will travel to Washington Reagan airport because of the unsafe conditions that are allowed to exist without primary regard for passenger safety.

 

[Dotta]

I'm sure happy to let airline companies know that I no longer will travel to Washington Reagan airport because of the unsafe conditions that are allowed to exist without primary regard for passenger safety.

I'm not surprised.

JMO

 

[SouthAussie]

I'm sure happy to let airline companies know that I no longer will travel to Washington Reagan airport because of the unsafe conditions that are allowed to exist without primary regard for passenger safety.

Seems that it should not be a hub, if it is so overcrowded with flights. I have passed through that airport on at least 3 occasions due to it being a hub ... when my destination was somewhere else.


"It is a hub for American Airlines."

Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[JDG]

It has seemed like there have been a lot of "near misses" lately.

A very common occurrence to have ‘near misses’ but a miss is as good as a mile, as they say.

 

[Tiff23fr]

A day before D.C. plane crash, another jet landing at Reagan National had to ‘go-around’​

Updated
January 30, 2025 at 6:20 p.m. EST8 min ago
NTSB will be on crash scene for ‘as long as it takes’
0:43
National Transportation Safety Board member J. Todd Inman said on Jan. 30 that the agency intends to file a preliminary report within 30 days. (Video: Reuters)

1 min
Just 24 hours before the collision of American Eagle Flight 5342 and an Army Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan National Airport on Wednesday, another jet trying to land there had to make a second approach after a helicopter appeared near its flight path, according to an audio recording from air traffic control.


That plane, Republic Airways Flight 4514, eventually landed safely, flight tracker maps show.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2025/01/30/dc-plane-crash-updates-helicopter-potomac-reagan-airport/

A near miss less than 24 hours before a significant safety event is alarming from a root cause analysis. This especially true if different staff were working in the two time windows creating similar near mis outcomes. A push on air space capacity? A flawed process? Human execution error - questionable if different staff - highly probable if the same staff IMO

 

[Seattle1]

That’s been common and typical - since the 1970’s!
That’s why PATCO went on strike in 1981…and were fired by the POTUS as a result. ATC has historically been understaffed, supplemented by long OT hours, mandatory double-shift, etc….

IF this was an ATC caused tragedy, BET that he or she, or someone in that tower - will face federal criminal charges.

That’s why the INTEGRITY of the investigation is so critical, and that the investigators are not influenced by politics in any way.

^^bbm

Yes!! I trained for ATC in the 80's and washed out but know many Controllers who successfully guide commercial aircraft and US Military helicopters at the same time. It's not prohibited, and IMO, if they can't, this is not the job for them -- especially if you work any tower in the DC area...

"Those of us who live in the D.C. area, we see military helicopters fly up and down the river. It's a standard path that they fly. They're used to aircraft landing at [Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport]. And there's a procedure in place because this happens every day."

I think NYT was first to report that Reagan National's tower was understaffed at the time of the collision, also including that the tower had been understaffed for years -- so not just last night. Funny how that part of the sentence and/or message is getting omitted.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/washington-plane-crash-helicopter-1.7445722

 

[DS2021]

Some youtube videos of these magnificent skaters

 

[DS2021]

 

[Herat]

Seems that it should not be a hub, if it is so overcrowded with flights. I have passed through that airport on at least 3 occasions due to it being a hub ... when my destination was somewhere else.


It is a hub for American Airlines.

Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Washington Dulles should be the hub, just like DFW is a huge hub that is not near the town.

Washington Reagan just does not have the capacity to handle all that traffic and the complications of documented unsafe military helicopter activity.

 

[DS2021]

 

[Izzylizzy]

I used early night vision goggles in the National Guard driving a tank.

As another poster mentioned, those versions did not do well: flares or lights could blind the device, depth perception was bad, and color contrasts such as: Are those headlights or red warning lights? all blurred into the same green etc).

I would bet that the modern ones used for flying are far better than the early models for general usage. But.... its still night time, the air space is crowded, and as the Senator mentioned, one needs to fly a very exact route while trying to identify a certain plane.

Even with modern night vision, it seems like it does not take much to go wrong for things to go very wrong.

BBM:

Exactly.
And considering where the helicopter was doing their training I would say it was/is the perfect storm.
I have no knowledge of flight but my first question was what the hell was the Black Hawk doing there?

 

[Charlot123]

I have very little faith the narrative that eventually is provided will be factual.

It might be factual, but facts look different depending on whether you drive a car or a bicycle.

The link offered by @RANCH

Flight path for Black Hawk involved in American Airlines crash wasn't complicated, Army official says

The Army official said that the pilots were on a routine training flight along a familiar flight path that isn't particularly complicated.

www.businessinsider.com

explains the situation given the way a military helicopter pilot views it. It makes sense from his standpoint, but requires two aspects,

1) enough time to utter long phrase for the ATC who may be already multi-tasking

2) typical for the military : "NW at 11 o'clock" is where the helicopter pilot will find the plane. For the ATC, the JRC in question may be "south at 1 o'clock!"

ATC may have no time to "flip" it for the military helicopter to find the JRC and frankly, it is not the ATC's job, as they are giving instructions to multiple planes about runways. Worse, if ATC makes a mistake with these "o'clock", he will definitely be at fault.

I can easily understand how a helicopter that should fly at 200 feet may get up to 350, but it is his responsibility to be at 200 when something happens. Furthermore, I often see helicopters, but they are way less noticeable at night than airplanes.

I have a feeling who'll be found at fault, but the most practical question is, what is the easiest thing to change?

To extend the runway takes time.

To hire more ATCs (and probably pay them better) means train more. + 2 years.

To change the military helicopter routes will be the fastest.

ETA: changed the article and the used who linked it. Sorry