DCA - American Airlines passenger plane collides with Blackhawk over the Potomac River, all 67 on both dead, 29 Jan 2025

[DoctorRose]

Aw. At the end the guy says “that’s the best you’ve ever done it.”

 

[Chimera]

There are actually 3 runways at KDCA.

Runway 01/19 is the longest runway at 7169 ft and is reported in GOOD condition. This is the runway that handles the largest plane landings and takeoffs

Runway 15/33 is the second longest at 5204 ft and is reported in EXCELLENT condition. This is the runway that AA5342 and other smaller commercial craft may be assigned to when there is a lot of traffic.

Runway 04/22 is the shortest runway at 5000 ft and is reported in GOOD condition. I am not seeing it used much at all.

The airport description carries this caution message;

• BE ADVISED SOME AIRCREWS MISTAKE RWY 15 FOR RWY 19.

That could be a major disaster for a large plane as the runway may be too short for a safe heavy landing, risking a runway excursion into the Potomac. (My comment)

I would think exploring how to extend runway 04/22 might be an option to handle the amount of traffic at KDCA rather than get into trying to reconfigure the Potomac or other Federal Waterways in that hugely complicated area.

Contrast the relatively short runways at KDCA with Washington Dulles (IAD). Longest runway at Reagan is 7169 ft. At IAD, longest runway is 11500 ft and 3 of the 4 runways are longer than 10,000 ft.

I think the FAA needs to do some very serious consideration into how to make KDCA safer, even if it involves fewer flights.

DCA - Ronald Reagan Washington Ntl Airport | SkyVector

Thanks for the link !

I was able to download a map of the airport and the runways in question :

 

[Chimera]

I have a feeling who'll be found at fault, but the most practical question is, what is the easiest thing to change?

To extend the runway takes time.

To hire more ATCs (and probably pay them better) means train more. + 2 years.

To change the military helicopter routes will be the fastest.

Bbm.
Snipped for focus.

Am going with the bolded first and foremost.

 

[Seattle1]

Technology that alerts pilots of other aircraft may have been disabled, expert explains

Scripps News spoke with aviation expert Kit Darby who explained why certain technologies may have been disabled before the deadly crash near Reagan National Airport on Wednesday.

www.scrippsnews.com

Jan 30, 2025

“I’ve flown into that airport. I've flown military airplanes in that airspace. It is complicated,” Darby explained. “But the procedures, when followed, work and the most basic procedure for any pilot is ‘see and avoid.’”

Another thing that stood out from the investigation into what happened so far is Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth’s statement that the three soldiers on board the helicopter were equipped with night-vision goggles.

Darby said night-vision goggles cut off the normal field of vision and are like looking through binoculars and only seeing things in black and white.

ETA: US Army has described the night hawk was on an ordinary, annual training flight so I have to wonder if the night vision goggles were part of the annual agenda but not necessarily appropriate for the environment where the training was taking place (i.e., DC lights, over water).

 

[Seattle1]

“Where you land on [runways] that are 13,000 feet long, you’ve got plenty of room to play with. But at [Reagan] it’s only 7,000 feet.”

There are two flight paths in the area — one for helicopters and another for airplanes — that converge near the Reagan airport, according to an official flight map.

Air traffic controller audio captured operators warning the military helicopter that it was getting close to American Airlines Flight 5342 and directing it to pass behind the passenger plane, which would have had the right of way for the trickier landing.

“It’s such a challenging airport to land a jet airplane, as your focus is really on your airspeed, your altitude, your rate of descent,” he said, adding that “the last thing you’re looking for is to see if somebody’s crossing in your path.”

Still, he insisted, “it’s totally possible to operate safely at Reagan International — I did it for 50 years, of course.”

1/30/25

How did the DC plane crash happen? Experts tell The Post what may have caused the accident

The Post spoke to several aviation experts about a number of factors that may have contributed to the fatal collision.

nypost.com

 

[Chimera]

That’s why PATCO went on strike in 1981…and were fired by the POTUS as a result. ATC has historically been understaffed, supplemented by long OT hours, mandatory double-shift, etc….

Emphasis mine.
Snipped for focus.

That's scary knowing the ATC's as well as the airline pilots, are literally holding people's lives and safety in their hands !
For example, I wouldn't want a surgeon who was working a double shift to operate on me esp. if he/she was exhausted.
Need to be at the 'top of your game' for some jobs.
Omo.

I see you're new here :

Welcome to Websleuths !!

 

[Herat]

Emphasis mine.
Snipped for focus.

That's scary knowing the ATC's as well as the airline pilots, are literally holding people's lives and safety in their hands !
For example, I wouldn't want a surgeon who was working a double shift to operate on me esp. if he/she was exhausted.
Need to be at the 'top of your game' for some jobs.
Omo.

I see you're new here :

Welcome to Websleuths !!

A tired surgeon generally can only harm one patient at time.

A tired ATController can hold the fate of hundreds of people at once.

 

[SouthAussie]

.
Army officials seem to be saying that the night vision goggles would help (not hinder) them to see other aircraft.


Officials said using NVGs, as they are often called, would likely be useful in an urban environment as they help the pilots navigate at night. The NVGs would help them see the other aircraft, especially over the Potomac River, which is only lit along the shorelines.

Army Officials Say Helicopter Pilots Were Likely Wearing Night-Vision Goggles

Army officials said Thursday the pilots of the UH-60 Black Hawk helicopter that collided with the American Airlines jet had night-vision goggles and likely were wearing them at the time of the crash. Officials said using NVGs, as they are often called, would likely be useful in an urban...

www.yahoo.com

 

[tarabull]

if this is off topic, please remove, but I watched Sean and Angela’s first place routine. Holy heck those kids were fearless, incredibly graceful. amazing skaters.

I hadn't but oh my - gone too sone, gone far too soon. soooooooo sad. so many stories, too many stories. all those poor souls. heavy heavy hearts, everywhere.

Young U.S. Ice Dancers' 1st Place Routine Before D.C. Plane Crash, on Video

Youth ice dance partners Angela Yang and Sean Kay had careers on the rise before they perished in the Washington, D.C. plane crash last night ... video footage of their breathtaking, last routine shows.

www.tmz.com

 

[steeltowngirl]

Someone had shared the news of the sisters. Their parents were killed, also. Family of four, gone. Reposting their final Instagram photo. The caption is heartbreaking.

Two sisters, who figure skated at a national championship in Wichita, Kansas, and their parents were among those killed in the devastating Washington, DC plane crash, relatives said Thursday.

Virginia resident Donna Livingston and her husband, Peter, along with their two daughters, Everly, 11, and Alydia, 14, were named as victims of the horrific collision.

The girls were part of the Washington Figure Skating Club and often shared footage of their spirited routines on Instagram under the handle @ice_skating_sisters.

In a final Instagram post, the sisters posed with smiles in front of the ice at the US Figure Skating Championships in Wichita.

Family of four, including skating sisters, 11 and 14, killed in DC plane crash

Virginia resident Donna Livingston and her husband, Peter, along with their two daughters, Everly, 11, and Alydia, 14, were named as victims of the horrific collision.

nypost.com

 

[Elley Mae]

A passenger flight had to abort landing at Reagan National Airport in Washington DC the day before American Airlines Flight 5342 collided in midair with a helicopter.

Republic Airways Flight 4514 was forced to back out of touching down and had to make a second approach after a helicopter appeared near its flight path.

American Airlines plane crashed in DC hours after similar near-miss

Republic Airways Flight 4514 had to back out touching down and make a second approach after a helicopter appeared near its flight path.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Deleted member 39678]

.
Army officials seem to be saying that the night vision goggles would help (not hinder) them to see other aircraft.


Officials said using NVGs, as they are often called, would likely be useful in an urban environment as they help the pilots navigate at night. The NVGs would help them see the other aircraft, especially over the Potomac River, which is only lit along the shorelines.

Army Officials Say Helicopter Pilots Were Likely Wearing Night-Vision Goggles

Army officials said Thursday the pilots of the UH-60 Black Hawk helicopter that collided with the American Airlines jet had night-vision goggles and likely were wearing them at the time of the crash. Officials said using NVGs, as they are often called, would likely be useful in an urban...

www.yahoo.com

NVG's didn't seem to help in this situation. PAT25 slammed right into the side of the landing CRJ.

Not a very good thing to say after this tragedy IMO.

 

[Charlot123]

More than 40 deceased have been recovered ....


Dive operations are done for the day due to daylight, conditions on the water and a growing sense among rescuers that most of the victims that can be reached without removing the fuselage from the water have already been recovered, a law enforcement source tells CNN.

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/plane-crash-dca-potomac-washington-dc-01-29-25#cm6jxm0cy00203b6qm6v333ix

My hear goes out to the rescuers and divers, too.

 

[Dotta]

"A grief-stricken widow
who lost her husband on American Airlines Flight 5342
when it crashed in Washington DC
has revealed they had to make a split decision
on who would be on the flight.

Natalya Gudin and her husband Alexandr Kirsanov
coached two young figure skaters
and had to decide which one of them would accompany them to Kansas
for the National Development Camp for figure skating.

Her husband was the one who ended up making the trip alongside the two kids.

Sean Kay and his skating partner Angela Yang died on the American Airlines flight with their coach Alexandr Kirsanov.

Gudin said:

'I lost everything.
I lost my husband.
I lost my students.
I lost my friends'.

She last spoke with her husband on Wednesday afternoon
when he was at the gate at the airport in Wichita, Kansas.

Kirsanov told her:
'It's time for boarding',
before making a plan to talk again once he had touched down at Reagan National Airport -

but the call never came."

Crash widow reveals choice that killed husband and saved her life

Natalya Gudin and her husband Alexandr Kirsanov coached two young figure skaters and had to decide who would accompany them to the National Development Camp for figure skating.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[SouthAussie]

NVG's didn't seem to help in this situation. PAT25 slammed right into the side of the landing CRJ.

Not a very good thing to say after this tragedy IMO.

Doesn't do any harm to express their experienced opinion of NVGs.

Seeing that we don't know if it was something like one (or both) aircraft straying off the lateral of their very specific flight path, as of yet. (as wondered by former Black Hawk pilot Sen Tammy Duckworth, in an earlier post)

imo

 

[Deleted member 39678]

In my opinion when ATC asked the CRJ to switch from landing at runway 1 to runway 33 he should have made sure that the PAT25 helicopter either stayed well below the altitude of the landing airliner or stop and wait for it to complete it's approach and landing.

The relying on visual separation by only one of the involved aircraft at night at one of the busiest airports in the country was asking for trouble. JMO.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Doesn't do any harm to express their experienced opinion of NVGs. Seeing that we don't know if it was something like one (or both) aircraft veering off the lateral of their very specific flight path, as of yet.

imo

The CRJ was exactly where it should have been on it's approach for a landing on runway 33. JMO.

 

[Charlot123]

Emphasis mine.
Snipped for focus.

That's scary knowing the ATC's as well as the airline pilots, are literally holding people's lives and safety in their hands !
For example, I wouldn't want a surgeon who was working a double shift to operate on me esp. if he/she was exhausted.
Need to be at the 'top of your game' for some jobs.
Omo.

I see you're new here :

Welcome to Websleuths !!

I think we all may end up with such surgeons as there is a shortage,

But shortage of ATCs was obvious since COVID. Still there. (

Is there an air traffic controller shortage? Deadly collision raises concerns

Amid increased concerns about aviation safety, here's how many air traffic controllers there are in the U.S., and how the hiring process works.

www.nbcwashington.com

 

[Seattle1]

1/30/25

"Helicopter Highway"

 

[Chimera]

A tired surgeon generally can only harm one patient at time.

A tired ATController can hold the fate of hundreds of people at once.

Yes, fair enough.
Still wouldn't want anyone overseeing a position that requires peak alertness to be in danger of making errors, just saying.

Which is why I'd never be able to handle either occupation mentioned.
I do hope the ATC doesn't become targeted if it wasn't their fault specifically ?
In some cases where they've worked or are working a double shift or overtime, is there any way to call in a relief if they feel they're starting to fear making a mistake ?
Idk if that's even possible.
Imo.