DCA - American Airlines passenger plane collides with Blackhawk over the Potomac River, all 67 on both dead, 29 Jan 2025

[Elley Mae]

Oops! On the roads. Apologies for not being clear.

I usually use BWI when going to DC. Fares and schedules are good. I've gotten stuck quite a few times in rush hour traffic when taking the shuttle into DC. Agree, Dulles is pretty far away. I wonder why they thought that would be a viable alternative to DCI back in the day?

Reagan has short runways iirc it was originally meant for smaller aircraft like the one that crashed. It has short runways compared to most.

 

[Betty P]

Reagan has short runways iirc it was originally meant for smaller aircraft like the one that crashed. It has short runways compared to most.

Yes, its a fairly small airport, compared to others in the area.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Only Eaves and O'Hara identified so far, but I believe I read somewhere yesterday that the third crew member of the Blackhawk was female.

Here are the victims of the Washington, DC, plane crash

A group of figure skaters, their coaches and family members were among the passengers of the flight.

www.wxii12.com

EDIT: Yeah, this article says there was a female pilot, so I guess look out for her name to be released sometimes in the coming days.

Black Hawk crew involved in DC crash made up of 'top pilots' with thousands of hours of experience

The crew of the Army Black Hawk helicopter involved in the deadly collision with a jetliner had thousands of hours of flight experience.

6abc.com

"Koziol confirmed to reporters on a conference call that the male instructor pilot had more than 1,000 hours of flight time, the female pilot who was commanding the flight at the time had more than 500 hours of flight time, and the crew chief was also said to have hundreds of hours of flight time.'

Black Hawk crew involved in DC crash made up of 'top pilots' with thousands of hours of experience

The crew of the Army Black Hawk helicopter involved in the deadly collision with a jetliner had thousands of hours of flight experience.

6abc.com

 

[Izzylizzy]

The female pilot is still not identified.
BBC 14 min ago.

Who are the victims of the Washington DC plane crash?

The victims of the mid-air collision include dedicated flight attendants and talented ice skaters.

www.bbc.com

 

[Jade]

I was okay last night, but today, I find myself very emotional. As a fan of figure skating, the ramifications of yesterday are going to reach far and long. It's not just the next decade worth of breakout talent that could have gone to world championships and Olympics, it's the coaches who could have trained dozens in that time, it's those kids who could have skated for years and then been coaches themselves for decades, or gone on to sports journalism.

It's a cross section of the sport, from early nineties world champions down to bright eyed ten year olds, and nobody in this sport in the world is going to be unaffected by this.

The diversity of the kids lost upsets me. Historically, figure skating, like gymnastics, has been a very white sport, but the last couple of decades has seen a blossoming of talent from all kinds of backgrounds and heritage. It's made it all the better. And every one of these kids lost was bringing something of themselves to the sport, and had the potential to bring so much more, to grow it and change it in beautiful and unexpected ways.

Yeah, as a skate fan, I'm grieving.

MOO

Also a skating fan I thought right away of Tara Lipinski and Johnny Weir. Their commentary preparation includes following the Juniors routines and progress into the adult events.

They were in Estonia doing commentary for the European Figure Skating Championships. Two of the coaches on the plane were medals winners at that event in 1994.

There is clip in this link of the moment of silence in the arena.

As you note the magnitude of loss of the skaters and coaches Tara also expresses;

>>
..my heart is with all the families affected and that's the part I have no words for. It will not do it justice," she said, adding that the "skating community will never be the same," but the victims will always be remembered.
>>
two coaches, Evgenia Shishkova and Vadim Naumov, the 1994 world pairs champions who helped train young ice skaters.

Shiskova and Naumov previously won five medals at the European Championships, the event that Weir and Lipinski were commentating on.
>>

Johnny Weir, Tara Lipinski Break Down as Moment of Silence Is Held at European Championships for Skaters Killed in American Airlines Crash

The grief that must have shook the European Figure Skating Championships as the news spread of the crash.


all imo

 

[Izzylizzy]

"The airspace around the nation's capital is one of the busiest in the nation, but Koziol described the helicopter flight corridor above the Potomac as "a relatively easy corridor to fly because you're flying down the center of the river, and it's very easily identifiable, especially at night" because there aren't a lot of lights.

Night vision goggles are available for Army aviators during nighttime missions, but they are not always necessary, said Koziol, who noted that he did not know if the pilots were wearing the goggles during Wednesday night's flight.

"They are helpful at night, obviously, and in an urban environment, they're still useful," but he discounted the notion that the Washington's bright lights may have affected the pilots, saying they were flying over the Potomac River, where "there are no lights, so that wouldn't impact them."

"They would have the peripheral vision of the lights on both sides of the shore, which actually helps them align and know which direction they're going," he added. "And it would help them see other aircraft."


cont

Army Black Hawk crew involved in DC crash made up of 'top pilots' with thousands of hours of experience

The crew of the Army Black Hawk helicopter involved in the deadly collision with a jetliner had thousands of hours of flight experience.

abcnews.go.com

 

[LoveyG]

I have permission to post this one time YouTube video explaining what likely happened. I hope others find it to be as clarifying as I did. The comments are equally interesting.

Edit: He has an updated video on 1/30. I don't have permission to post that one but it is easily found in his videos.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

It has also emerged that the Army helicopter,
which was carrying three soldiers, involved in the collision
might have also deviated from its approved flight path.

It seems something went wrong that wasn't realized by any of the three people on the helicopter, despite their combined training and experience. That is a tough pill to swallow. A tough reality to understand.

 

[Elley Mae]

The helicopter flew outside its approved flight path. The American Airlines pilots most likely did not see the helicopter close by as they made a turn toward the runway. And the air traffic controller, who was juggling two jobs at the same time, was unable to keep the helicopter and the plane separated.

Clues From D.C. Plane Crash Suggest Multiple Failures in Aviation Safety

Clues emerging from the moments before an Army helicopter collided with a passenger jet suggest breakdowns in the system meant to help aircraft land safely at the busy Reagan National Airport.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Panniniclaus]

I have permission to post this one time YouTube video explaining what likely happened. I hope others find it to be as clarifying as I did. The comments are equally interesting.

Edit: He has an updated video on 1/30. I don't have permission to post that one but it is easily found in his videos.

The fact there is an approved procedure to have the Helicopters cross the Potomac River, into commercial airspace, is baffling to me.. Perhaps it is normal to veterans of this industry but I find what he said to be stunning.

 

[iamshadow21]

The fact there is an approved procedure to have the Helicopters cross the Potomac River, into commercial airspace, is baffling to me.. Perhaps it is normal to veterans of this industry but I find what he said to be stunning.

It's not normal. Veterans of the industry have major issues with it, too.

Washington DC plane crash: 40 bodies recovered; Trump claims army helicopter was flying too high – live updates

Official gives update on recovery efforts; president weighs in on cause of collision in highly unusual move as investigation still under way

www.theguardian.com

 

[Elley Mae]

I have permission to post this one time YouTube video explaining what likely happened. I hope others find it to be as clarifying as I did. The comments are equally interesting.

Edit: He has an updated video on 1/30. I don't have permission to post that one but it is easily found in his videos.

I think he is mistaken, iirc the blackhawk flew out of Ft Belvoir south if DC.

Jmo

 

[Cryptic]

And considering where the helicopter was doing their training I would say it was/is the perfect storm.
I have no knowledge of flight but my first question was what the hell was the Black Hawk doing there?

I agree completely- there are just too many links in the safety chain. Eventually, one of those links was going to break resulting in a disaster.

I would say your question of "What the hell was the Blackhawk doing there?" could be doubly true.

@Herat raised the possibility that the training mission could have just been a need to obtain needed flight hours- and not say, the quarterly "Mega emergency! evacuate DC VIPs- NOW!" type training.

 

[iamshadow21]

Most non-emergency helicopters barred from the area around Reagan 'indefinitely'.

Washington DC plane crash: 40 bodies recovered; Trump claims army helicopter was flying too high – live updates

Official gives update on recovery efforts; president weighs in on cause of collision in highly unusual move as investigation still under way

www.theguardian.com

 

[ChatteringBirds]

And the air traffic controller, who was juggling two jobs at the same time, was unable to keep the helicopter and the plane separated.

Quote snipped by me.
If the helicopter pilot stated they would maintain separation, what more could, or should, the AT-controller have done?

 

[Elley Mae]

Chilling new videos give clearest view yet of DC plane crash — and debris falling into river after fireball

The cellphone footage provides the clearest angle yet of Wednesday’s tragic midair collision in Washington, DC, that killed 67 people in the country’s deadliest aviation disaster in almost a …

nypost.com

 

[Cryptic]

So ATC should not have relied on PAT25's claim of having the CRJ in sight because of the inherent limitations in aircraft design?

It seems you're saying ATC knew PAT25 was lower than the CRJ and they let them continue with visual separation rules even though the helicopters roof panels prevent the pilots from doing that safely. Is that correct?

My guess is that it is correct.

In defense of the ATC, there seems to be nothing unusual about the presence of the Blackhawk and how the ATC handled the Blackhawk. Rather, the following seems to be the norm:

- Military helicopters routinely fly that route- even though the airspace is congested and even at night. ATC and commercial pilots may not like it, but the military can set their own agenda.

- When handling military traffic, ATC advises the helicopter crews of civilian traffic, then allows the helicopter in under procedures "A" and "B".

In short, though everybody can always do something better with 20/20 hindsight, my guess is that the actions of the ATC were with in the safety norm (well, the safety norms before the disaster).

 

[bestill]

The female pilot is still not identified.
BBC 14 min ago.

Who are the victims of the Washington DC plane crash?

The victims of the mid-air collision include dedicated flight attendants and talented ice skaters.

www.bbc.com

I find it curious that they have announced two of the blackhawk crew but haven't released the female crew member. I expect that to happen soon, not sure why two are known but she's not. Maybe problems notifying her next of kin? IDK

 

[Joe Friday]

The fact there is an approved procedure to have the Helicopters cross the Potomac River, into commercial airspace, is baffling to me.. Perhaps it is normal to veterans of this industry but I find what he said to be stunning.

If there were no procedures, it would be chaos.

The problem is, when the procedures are not followed, accidents happen.

The Blackhawk was following a published helicopter route (Route 1) from the north heading to the south that should have allowed the helicopter to pass below the flight path of the landing traffic into Regan airport. The maximum altitude for that route near the airport is 200 ft, indicated by the markings to the left of the route with the line above. The helicopter was initially at 200 ft, but climbed to 300 ft as it neared the approach path for Rwy 33, putting the Blackhawk in the direct path of the landing American Airlines plane on final for Rwy 33.

 

[sds71]

The FAA tells me it has indefinitely SHUT DOWN the low-altitude helicopter corridor in use during Wednesday's fatal midair collision.Blackhawk was on Route 4. It and Route 1 are now both closed "inside the bridges." Most significant action yet by FAA.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1885346128742264964