DCA - American Airlines passenger plane collides with Blackhawk over the Potomac River, all 67 on both dead, 29 Jan 2025

[Tiff23fr]

The name of the last Blackhawk pilot should be released for full transparency. The longer the delay people will begin begin to suspect a coverup.

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Flight data appears to show helicopter was 100 feet above maximum altitude and veering off course before it collided with jet

• Investigation into DC plane and helicopter collision looking at potential mistakes in
  'no margin for error' situation

There may be a balancing act of 24 - 48 hrs to give the family time to prepare, make a decision on social media accounts, and/or perhaps leave home for a few days to avoid reporters. If it goes much longer than that, then I agree it will cause more harm than good.

 

[Seattle1]

FAA still fighting 2015 Class Action Lawsuit for Denying 1,000 Jobs - Contributing to ATC Shortage

Jan 31, 2025

The Federal Aviation Administration is fighting a class-action lawsuit alleging it denied 1,000 would-be air traffic controllers jobs because of diversity hiring targets — as it was revealed that staffing levels were “not normal” at the time of this week’s deadly midair collision.

Details of the litigation re-emerged, too, as Andrew Brigida, the lead plaintiff in the suit filed in 2015, suggested the federal aviation agency’s obsession with diversity hiring and inclusion had only ensured that an accident was likely to happen.

The crux of the lawsuit is that the FAA, under the Obama administration, dropped a skill-based system for hiring controllers and replaced it with a “biographical assessment” in an alleged bid to boost the number of minority job applicants.

Brigida, who is white, alleges he was discriminated against solely based on his race when his application was rejected, court papers state.

The would-be air traffic controller, who graduated from Arizona State University’s collegiate training initiative in 2013, was turned down for a job even though he had scored 100% on his training exam, the lawsuit alleges.

 

[Betty P]

There may be a balancing act of 24 - 48 hrs to give the family time to prepare, make a decision on social media accounts, and/or perhaps leave home for a few days to avoid reporters. If it goes much longer than that, then I agree it will cause more harm than good.

After the crash of TWA 800 in 1996, a law was passed by Congress that provides rights for families of victims in plane crashes. Among other things, it has a timeline for the release of victim information to the public. This is probably being followed.

https://www.ntsb.gov/tda/tdadocuments/federal-family-plan-aviation-disasters-rev-12-2008.pdf

House Report 106-32 - TO CLARIFY THE APPLICATION OF THE ACT POPULARLY KNOWN AS THE "DEATH ON THE HIGH SEAS ACT" TO AVIATION INCIDENTS

The way I'm reading some of these summaries is that, because of possible future litigation, aviation crashes are treated almost as a crime scene. Procedures have to be followed, including recovery and ID of bodies, notification of family and release of information to the public.

Here's another good summary

Aviation Disaster Family Assistance Act | Kreindler

Read more about Aviation Disaster Family Assistance Act in the Kreindler Legal Library.

www.kreindler.com

 

[MassGuy]

Investigators recover final black box in deadly midair collision from Black Hawk helicopter, NTSB says

https://t.co/CQCeM7IpAH

https://twitter.com/x/status/1885470330593919019

 

[DS2021]

Small plane crash in philly

Plane crash in Philadelphia neighborhood kills 7; several homes catch fire

Six Mexican citizens aboard a medical jet and one person on the ground were killed after the plane crashed in Philadelphia.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[branmuffin]

It's likely not legal to exempt certain federal employees from voluntary resignation programs. We've had a few of these programs over the years at universities I'm familiar with, and their are legal requirements that must be met when you offer these kinds of programs.

Also, the decisions to participate in these programs are unique to the individuals involved, it is a windfall for many, and for those who aren't interested, it can be ignored.

Perhaps, but you might be comparing apples to oranges. What happens in the private sector you'd think would have less guardrails but it seems that may not be true.

 

[bestill]

Small plane crash in philly

Plane crash in Philadelphia neighborhood kills 7; several homes catch fire

Six Mexican citizens aboard a medical jet and one person on the ground were killed after the plane crashed in Philadelphia.

www.cbsnews.com

This appears to be the mall. It's large area on fire involving Roosevelt Mall per WTXF Fox Affiliate in Philly

 

[IzzyBlanche]

So the helicopter pilot is female.

No wonder her family doesn't want her name released until they have time to prepare as well as they can for the onslaught of hate that will be directed at her as a so-called DEI hire.

Edited to add source: https://www.npr.org/2025/01/30/nx-s1-5281246/pentagon-jet-military-helicopter-collision

 

[DS2021]

Is this a plane?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1885475087266009266

Post in thread 'PA - Small plane crashes in Northeast Philadelphia'

Jan 31, 2025

Plane crash in Philadelphia neighborhood kills 7; several homes catch fire

Six Mexican citizens aboard a medical jet and one person on the ground were killed after the plane crashed in Philadelphia.

www.cbsnews.com

Emergency crews are responding to an explosion in Northeast Philadelphia after a small plane crashed in the area of Roosevelt Boulevard and Cottman Avenue, Philadephia police confirmed to CBS News Philadelphia.

Two people were aboard the plane, according to police. There are other injuries reported on the ground, police added.

Multiple homes are on fire in the area of Cottman Avenue and Roosevelt Boulevard following the crash, fire officials said

• DS2021

• 
• 
• 

 

[Sundog]

Perhaps, but you might be comparing apples to oranges. What happens in the private sector you'd think would have less guardrails but it seems that may not be true.

I don't know how the private sector handles voluntary resignation programs, I was referring to the public sector, i.e. the federal government and public universities, like Ohio State University, for example. Lots of requirements and also issues related to unionization of employees and challenges by the unions. This would apply to the feds as well as states.

 

[bestill]

DBM

 

[Sundog]

So the helicopter pilot was female.

No wonder her family doesn't want her name released until they have time to prepare as well as they can for the onslaught of hate that will be directed at her as a so-called DEI hire.

Edited to add source: https://www.npr.org/2025/01/30/nx-s1-5281246/pentagon-jet-military-helicopter-collision

All the key players in this tragedy will be under a microsope as the victims' families and the public demand accountability. Whether it is the pilot of the plane, the pilot of the helicopter, or the ATC person involved, there will be intense scrutiny in the public media. Withholding that information won't help, it could make it even worse.

 

[schooling]

FAA still fighting 2015 Class Action Lawsuit for Denying 1,000 Jobs - Contributing to ATC Shortage

Jan 31, 2025

The Federal Aviation Administration is fighting a class-action lawsuit alleging it denied 1,000 would-be air traffic controllers jobs because of diversity hiring targets — as it was revealed that staffing levels were “not normal” at the time of this week’s deadly midair collision.

Details of the litigation re-emerged, too, as Andrew Brigida, the lead plaintiff in the suit filed in 2015, suggested the federal aviation agency’s obsession with diversity hiring and inclusion had only ensured that an accident was likely to happen.

The crux of the lawsuit is that the FAA, under the Obama administration, dropped a skill-based system for hiring controllers and replaced it with a “biographical assessment” in an alleged bid to boost the number of minority job applicants.

Brigida, who is white, alleges he was discriminated against solely based on his race when his application was rejected, court papers state.

The would-be air traffic controller, who graduated from Arizona State University’s collegiate training initiative in 2013, was turned down for a job even though he had scored 100% on his training exam, the lawsuit alleges.

My response isn’t a political one. It’s directly aimed at the content in the story you linked and the veracity of their reporting.

It’s hilarious that the NYPost, the bastion of independent journalism (lol) had a much much more recent lawsuit they could have cited and focused on. One directly aimed at this program , class action so much bigger, that happens to go to to trial this year.

But instead they decide to go back to 2015. Hmmmm wonder why.

Doh! I see why.

FLASHBACK: FAA turned away qualified air traffic controllers based solely on race

The disturbing rise in near-miss incidents at America’s airports is no accident.

www.washingtontimes.com

The more recent lawsuit was filed in 2019. Wonder why they wouldn’t want to dig into that one? Sounds like they wanted to leave room for the idea that DEI vanished in 2016. Only to rare its head again in 2020. Right?

But nope! The specific DEI program in question was very much active in 2019 and in 2016, 2017 and 2018. But there’s more. Not only did it not vanish. That administration loved it so much (IMO) that they decided to create and launch another DEI program specifically targeted at people with mental disabilities.

https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/faa-provides-aviation-careers-people-disabilities

Yes, signed in 2019. A DEI program. We are reading that correctly. Imagine that!

I don’t like it when news sources deliberately leave out pieces of critical information in service of the blame game.

Maybe it’s time we wait for the results of the investigation instead.

 

[lonetraveler]

My response isn’t a political one. It’s directly aimed at the content in the story you linked and the veracity of their reporting.

It’s hilarious that the NYPost, the bastion of independent journalism (lol) had a much much more recent lawsuit they could have cited and focused on. One directly aimed at this program , class action so much bigger, that happens to go to to trial this year.

But instead they decide to go back to 2015. Hmmmm wonder why.

FLASHBACK: FAA turned away qualified air traffic controllers based solely on race

The disturbing rise in near-miss incidents at America’s airports is no accident.

www.washingtontimes.com

Doh! I see why. The lawsuit was filed in 2019. Wonder why they wouldn’t want to dig into the other one?

The specific DEI program in question was very much active in 2019 and in 2016, 2017 and 2018. In fact the administration loved it so much (IMO) that they decided to launch another DEI program specifically targeted at people with mental disabilities.

https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/faa-provides-aviation-careers-people-disabilities

Yes, signed in 2019. A DEI program. We are reading that correctly. Imagine that!

I don’t like it when news sources deliberately leave out pieces of critical information in service of the blame game.

Maybe it’s time we wait for the results of the investigation instead.

So, now it comes to light.

 

[Warwick1991]

It’s hilarious that the NYPost, the bastion of independent journalism (lol) had a much much more recent lawsuit they could have cited. One directly aimed at this program , class action so much bigger, that happens to go to to trial this year.

But instead they decide to go back to 2015. Hmmmm wonder why.

FLASHBACK: FAA turned away qualified air traffic controllers based solely on race

The disturbing rise in near-miss incidents at America’s airports is no accident.

www.washingtontimes.com

Doh! I see why. The lawsuit was filed in 2019. Wonder why they wouldn’t want to mention this one?

This program was active then. In fact they loved it so much (IMO) that they decided to launch another DEI program specifically targeted at people with mental disabilities.

https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/faa-provides-aviation-careers-people-disabilities

Maybe it’s time we wait for the results of the investigation.

There was no program targeted at solely people with mental disabilities. Federal targeted disabilities also include mobility disabilities, disfigurement, or missing limbs. Questions & Answers: The EEOC’s Final Rule on Affirmative Action for People with Disabilities in Federal Employment

From the link you provided, the program for people with disabilities also notes requirements for the following:
- Meet Office of Personnel Management ATC qualification standards
- Pass Air Traffic Skills Assessment (AT-SA) Aptitude test
- Pass a medical/security review

 

[schooling]

There was no program targeted at solely people with mental disabilities. Federal targeted disabilities also include mobility disabilities, disfigurement, or missing limbs. Questions & Answers: The EEOC’s Final Rule on Affirmative Action for People with Disabilities in Federal Employment

From the link you provided, the program for people with disabilities also notes requirements for the following:
- Meet Office of Personnel Management ATC qualification standards
- Pass Air Traffic Skills Assessment (AT-SA) Aptitude test
- Pass a medical/security review

Not sure where I said it was only for people with mental disabilities.

I said it was targeted at. It was the inspiration and hallmark of the legislation. As they believed the previous one didn’t go far enough in that direction.

I’m in favor of these programs. I know the legislation very well.

 

[Tutter]

Have you seen this video of the crash that was posted up thread?

I hope no one on that plane had any idea of what happened. I hope it was instant at the time of impact, with no fear and no pain.

 

[Sundog]

I hope no one on that plane had any idea of what happened. I hope it was instant at the time of impact, with no fear and no pain.

I agree, when you lose a loved one, it helps tremendously if you know that it was fast and that they did not suffer.

 

[ilovewings]

I agree, when you lose a loved one, it helps tremendously if you know that it was fast and that they did not suffer.

I was thinking the same thing: I wonder if they had even a moment to process what was occurring: I I hope not. You know what really bothers me most about this horrible tragedy? They were 30 seconds from landing- preparing -- thinking what they were going to do when they got off the plane, planning, then in one split second they were gone. It is just horrible.

 

[branmuffin]

I don't know how the private sector handles voluntary resignation programs, I was referring to the public sector, i.e. the federal government and public universities, like Ohio State University, for example. Lots of requirements and also issues related to unionization of employees and challenges by the unions. This would apply to the feds as well as states.

Sorry, excuse my ignorance regarding universities in the US. For some reason I thought all universities were private and it was colleges that were public