DCA - American Airlines passenger plane collides with Blackhawk over the Potomac River, all 67 on both dead, 29 Jan 2025

[Deleted member 39678]

<modsnip> I'm glad that the helicopter route used by PAT25 was quickly suspended after this horrible accident.

I'm still not sure why this route was allowed for so long. Having aircraft pass within 200 feet of each other at a runway approach is extremely dangerous IMO.

How can you expect pilots making a difficult approach on a short runway to also avoid intruding traffic at night?

I don't get it. JMO.

 

[PaulaDC]

So here's the name of the third pilot <modsnip> this pretty much sums it up.

'Earned her place': Friends grieve Rebecca Lobach, US Army pilot killed in DC crash

The Army withheld the name of Capt. Rebecca Lobach, the US Army pilot killed in a disastrous crash on Wednesday, for an extra day.

www.usatoday.com

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

This is a very difficult thread to moderate due to POTUS having spoken out without the investigation being completed. As POTUS, he's allowed to say whatever he pleases when he pleases, but please do NOT politicize this thread based on his comments and do not introduce DEI into this discussion.

Until the investigation is complete, nobody knows for sure what is/was involved, so don't introduce politics (which does nothing but cause division and dissension in a discussion).

 

[Seattle1]

2/1/25

FULL Press Conference: NTSB delivers updates to investigation of DCA plane crash​

 

[Charlot123]

I am mentally past the “who piloted BH” question and the pilots’ personal qualities. Let the military take a long, hard look at the situation and answer to themselves why their pilots failed the test.

We. the public, are probably at the investigation limb, and one question I have is, “how to make traffic at Reagan easier?”

Understanding why different frequencies for the helicopter and the planes…is it really necessary on a training flight for three young, not elite pilots? It wasn’t a mission. Or would the plane, the helicopter and ATCs “joining the chat” help avoid the collision?

Look at the routes. If the pilots ever again get above 200 feet ceiling…

I think it was not a problem to use runway 33, if it is in use. However, maybe forbid the ATC supervisors to let anyone leave early unless the supervisor is ready to sit down and take over as ATC? After all the horrific Bodensee accident happened when there was one ATC instead of two.

While I am at the helicopter aspect, a very strange question came to my mind. Are BHs Internet-equipped? One crew member in the back is not enough, but could that one have been on the phone? (Sorry, I am only thinking of what people do at the “ground” level, and in cars, some still text and drive.)

Lastly, it has been discussed that Washington bureaucracy likes to use direct flights to DC. Maybe allow only higher levels to do it? There are lots of low-level bureaucrats in DC, and I bet this system is overused, too. Make ranks.

Personally, I think both sides on the internet are bending the situation with the pilots too much. On one hand, these three people joined the military voluntarily, died during training, have a heart.

On the other, interviewing her friends who say that she “fully deserved” is absolutely not compassionate to the families of 64 victims. Really sounds wrong. The BH crew made a mistake, people died, we know who the pilots were, let us move on from “curiosity delay” and let the families mourn.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

On the other, interviewing her friends who say that she “fully deserved” is absolutely not compassionate to the families of 64 victims. Really sounds wrong. The BH crew made a mistake, people died, we know who the pilots were, let us move on from “curiosity delay” and let the families mourn.

Snipped and bolded by me for focus

Has it been confirmed by official sources that the BH crew made a mistake that resulted in the crash? Do you have a link? I would like to read it for myself. Thank you.

 

[Seattle1]

Geez...I'm really tiring of these sensationalizing headlines and will file this one with that of the DCA Tower being short staffed on Wednesday when MSM also reported it's been short staffed for years (conveniently omitted from the headlines)!

What we know about Republic Airways Flight 4514 is that the pilot did a go around on Tuesday after ATC advised there was a BH in the vicinity. There's no ATC transmission even suggesting they were directed to divert! And no doubt this would be all over the news if this was true.

It's a fact that BKs are near DCA, and the Republic Airways pilot may have had several reasons to reposition for landing. Per FlightAware, there is nothing about Tuesday's flight 4514 that sets it apart from two weeks history for flight 4514....

As a million mile+ flyer -- fly arounds happen. Whether it be weather, an animal, air craft ahead too slow, or precautionary, you have to trust the pilot doing what is best. MOO

YX4514 (RPA4514) Republic Flight Tracking and History 28-Jan-2025 (KBDL-KDCA) - FlightAware

Track Republic (YX) #4514 flight from Bradley Intl to Reagan National

www.flightaware.com

^^BBM

Bravo to NTSB for calling out the erroneous MSM report that I too suggested in my quoted post about a near miss collision reported at DCA 24 hours before the tragedy on Wednesday over the Potomac. See the NTSB presser on 2/1/25:

At about the 11 min mark of the presser, NTSB states the investigation data showed there was over 1,000 feet of separation between PAT11 and the Republic Airways jet. 1000 feet is a good safety barrier. The pilot here rejected the landing and did a go around which was the pilots own decision.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

^^BBM

Bravo to NTSB for calling out the erroneous MSM report that I too suggested in my quoted post about a near miss collision reported at DCA 24 hours before the tragedy on Wednesday over the Potomac. See the NTSB presser on 2/1/25:

At about the 11 min mark of the presser, NTSB states the investigation data showed there was over 1,000 feet of separation between PAT11 and the Republic Airways jet. 1000 feet is a good safety barrier. The pilot here rejected the landing and did a go around which was the pilots own decision.

So you feel that the Republic should not have done a go around and instead landed?

 

[Charlot123]

Snipped and bolded by me for focus

Has it been confirmed by official sources that the BH crew made a mistake that resulted in the crash? Do you have a link? I would like to read it for myself. Thank you.

1) posting again - what has been said/published today.

DC plane crash: ATC staffing levels under scrutiny as barges arrive to help salvage ops

Barges are expected to arrive in the D.C area on Saturday to help with salvage operations from Wednesday's deadly plane crash at Regan National Airport as investigator's probe the cause of a collision that left 67 people dead.

www.foxnews.com

Ted Cruz: “ We know that air traffic control confirmed with the helicopter crew that they had visual contact with the plane. Controllers then instructed the helicopter to move behind the plane," he added. "However, instead of complying, the helicopter moved in front of the aircraft. The two aircraft collided mid-air, resulting in a catastrophic explosion."

2) I listened to whole NTSB conference. Mr. Todd Inman said that while the helicopter was visible to the ATC at 200 feet, but at the time of the collision, they were approximately at the same height. The CRJ’s belly was 325 feet +/- 25 feet. So somehow, the helicopter ended up at that height. Happy to find the minute where it is said, but I think you watched it, too.

So whose mistake it was? Somehow, the helicopter crew was not aware of its height and not seeing the plane.

If you have any other ideas, I’d love to hear them. I can tell you who I know is absolutely not at fault, and it is the crew of the doomed CRJ. Nor the 60 passengers.

 

[SouthAussie]

So whose mistake it was? Somehow, the helicopter crew was not aware of its height and not seeing the plane.

Maybe the Black Hawk's altimeter was faulty. And they couldn't physically see the plane because it was in their upper blind spot.

 

[iamshadow21]

Maybe the Black Hawk's altimeter was faulty. And they couldn't physically see the plane because it was in their upper blind spot.

They indicated they saw the plane. Whatever their instruments said, they misidentified the plane ATC was warning them about.

MOO

 

[iamshadow21]

‘Our youngest and brightest’: grief of DC plane crash rocks figure skating community

The loss of the young figure skaters whose lives were cut tragically short in the American Eagle flight 5342 crash has ripped a hole in the tightly knit world of figure skating

www.theguardian.com

 

[Seattle1]

So you feel that the Republic should not have done a go around and instead landed?

I support that the the pilot did what he believed was in the best interest of his crew and passengers-- whether it be one or more go arounds. Landing at DCA requires special training-- we know nothing about the pilot's experience here.

What I don't think appropriate is calling this a near miss collision when it was nothing of the sort. 1000 feet was deemed a safe barrier, and the pilot was never directed to abandon landing and go around. It's still not clear to me who initially claimed this a near-miss. JMO

 

[SouthAussie]

They indicated they saw the plane. Whatever their instruments said, they misidentified the plane ATC was warning them about.

MOO

Yes, I know that. What I meant is they probably couldn't see the plane they hit due to the helicopter's body.

I doubt they knowingly and recklessly flew right into another aircraft. Something went wrong, and hopefully the flight recorder will show what that was.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I support that the the pilot did what he believed was in the best interest of his crew and passengers-- whether it be one or more go arounds. Landing at DCA requires special training-- we know nothing about the pilot's experience here.

What I don't think appropriate is calling this a near miss collision when it was nothing of the sort. 1000 feet was deemed a safe barrier, and the pilot was never directed to abandon landing and go around. It's still not clear to me who initially claimed this a near-miss. JMO

So you feel that 1000 feet is a safe separation but the pilot who made the go around at that distance should be supported for doing that.

Sorry but that doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[Charlot123]

Maybe the Black Hawk's altimeter was faulty. And they couldn't physically see the plane because it was in their upper blind spot.

Maybe. Quite possible. They could be victims, too. This is why I think we have to focus on “how to make it all safer.” If the idea of equipping all BHs with Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Broadcast device takes roots, maybe this will be the outcome. If we acknowledge that our Senators’ and Congressmen’s time is valuable but there is a limit staff they can take on direct flights, it will probably be better. Otherwise we’ll be stuck and torn between 1) horrible negativity on the Internet that no one deserves and 2) natural compassion and wish to protect and 3) the reaction of the passengers’ families. I already see nastiness in the spirit, and it won’t be conducive to any improvement at all.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Data from the jet’s flight recorder showed its altitude as 325 feet (99 meters), plus or minus 25 feet (7.6 meters), when the crash happened Wednesday night, National Transportation Safety Board officials told reporters. Data in the control tower, though, showed the Black Hawk helicopter at 200 feet (61 meters) at the time.

Investigators hope to reconcile the altitude differences with data from the helicopter's black box, which is taking more time to retrieve because it became waterlogged after it plunged into the Potomac River. They also said they plan to refine the tower data, which can be less reliable.

Data from the deadliest U.S. air accident in a generation show conflicting altitude readings

Preliminary data from the deadliest U.S. aviation accident in nearly 25 years showed conflicting readings about the altitudes of an airliner and Army helicopter when they collided near Reagan National Airport in Washington, killing everyone aboard both aircraft, investigators said Saturday...

www.yahoo.com

 

[Seattle1]

So you feel that 1000 feet is a safe separation but the pilot who made the go around at that distance should be supported for doing that.

Sorry but that doesn't make any sense to me.

To be clear, these are not my rules. NTSB and industry determined that 1000 feet is a safe barrier. In the case of the Republic Jet and PAT11-- there was more than 1000 feet separation per NTSB. Black Hawks are allowed to fly under aircraft at 200 feet separation or pass behind them at less than 1000 feet! It's a fact that per the standards, there was no near miss here as reported by MSN and good on NTSB for correcting the record. Not sure what OP is trying to say.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

To be clear, these are not my rules. NTSB and industry determined that 1000 feet is a safe barrier. In the case of the Republic Jet and PAT11-- there was more than 1000 feet separation per NTSB. Black Hawks are allowed to fly under aircraft at 200 feet separation or pass behind them at less than 1000 feet! It's a fact that per the standards, there was no near miss here as reported by MSN and good on NTSB for correcting the record. Not sure what OP is trying to say.

Why do you support a pilot who does a go around for no reason then? It still doesn't make any sense to me. JMO.

 

[Elley Mae]

New Angle of Black Hawk Crashing Into Plane Raises Questions​

New angle of Black Hawk crashing into plane raises questions

Two new videos of the fatal American Airlines crash on Wednesday night are adding to speculation about how it happened.

www.newsweek.com

https://twitter.com/x/status/1884831727622738298