Dead Folks and Decomp *WARNING: GRAPHIC PHOTOS IN OPENING POST*#2

[Solange82200]

I reread the paper towels part, and now I remember what the "explanation/excuse" for the grave wax is from Cindy. She said the decomp could also have come from a pig. So that is what the defense will say to that, that is might be human, but there is also a chance it could be a dead pig in her trunk (riiiiiigh), so that is reasonable doubt. Ugh

 

[logicalgirl]

I know the pig/bacon/ham theory has been proven to be wrong, and it is probably in an old thread or in myth busters, but I am at work and won't have time to search for at least a couple of hours.

 

[Nore]

Warning: Ugly picture on this link page too!

http://www.medicinaoral.com/medoralfree01/v14i7/medoralv14i7p337.pdf


Don't want to harp on this, I just thought it was interesting and since we're all wondering if Caylee was suffocated and since they did find her little teeth...

--------------------
missy,thanks for bringing this up.I have never heard of it before. To my knowledge they never mentioned the condition of her teeth,doesnt mean it wasnt there.:angel:

 

[ynotdivein]

What I am still i shock over is... how can someone see/smell/touch their BABY girl all bloated and decomposing... and then go rent movies and shake their @ss at a club days later!
Apparently the whole killing thing didn't seem to bother KC much... but you'd think that seeing Caylee in that condition would scar her for life. It's like, she was over it instantly.\
how do you get on a stage and laugh and grind up on people just days after moving the dead body of your toddler????

BG, I agree, it blows my mind that anyone could compartmentalize such an event to that degree.

Wonder if the defense is ready to use exactly that argument in court when the pictures come up. "Quite frankly, no sane person could commit such a heinous crime and then go out and party like that! So either Casey Anthony is sane, in which case she didn't kill her kid and you have to find her not guilty; or she's insane, in which case she didn't realize it was wrong to behave this way and you have to find her not guilty!"

I do not envy the defense their job one iota. :crazy:

 

[Reagan]

Since they refuse to plea insanity or go that route with their defense (Like Terry L wanted) they CANNOT even allude to KC being crazy, or not of sound mind. Even though it's apparent that something's wrong with her mentally (doesn't make her insane) .. it cannot be brought up in trial.

I found it interesting the other day that Linda Drane said this is the first fillicide case they've prosecuted that didn't include an insanity defense.

KC, JB and Co.. you are screwed!

 

[Anais]

Since they refuse to plea insanity or go that route with their defense (Like Terry L wanted) they CANNOT even allude to KC being crazy, or not of sound mind. Even though it's apparent that something's wrong with her mentally (doesn't make her insane) .. it cannot be brought up in trial.

I found it interesting the other day that Linda Drane said this is the first fillicide case they've prosecuted that didn't include an insanity defense.

KC, JB and Co.. you are screwed!

BBM


IMO there is absolutely nothing mentally wrong with casey. She is just a sociopath, narcisisst, and pathological liar. I found out that Sociopathy and Pyschopathy are not a mental illness! That flipped me out! In any case ICA is a spoiled rotten brat to boot who has been allowed to get away with everything and anything her entire life. Until now she has been able to just walk away because no one has ever made her accountable for her actions. She lied to mommy and daddy, if they didn't believe her they didn't let her know about it. JMHO

Oh yeah Baez et al look out because there is a train named Florida SAO headed straight for your way non-stop, one way.

 

[Just Jayla]

I know the pig/bacon/ham theory has been proven to be wrong, and it is probably in an old thread or in myth busters, but I am at work and won't have time to search for at least a couple of hours.

I think it was brought up in a doc dump thread or an adipocere thread, when adipocere was first mentioned in this case-I remember linking to an article about the chemical composition of aged salami, because salami has the little fatty bits throughout, and an OM Salami container was found in the trash bag. It turns out that when salami is cured, many of the same acids, including oleic, are present in a similar ratio to adipocere...
Those little bits of fat get on your fingers and fall out of the meat sometimes, so I wondered...Anyway, a fellow sleuther presented a reason why it could not have been salami fatty bits, a factoid-based reason, and whatever that reason was (I don't remember), it was good enough for me at the time.

Also, I saw something that is not correct mentioned in a recent quote here-IIRC,there was not food found in the trash bag. None. Nil. Especially pizza.

 

[debbie0604]

What I am still i shock over is... how can someone see/smell/touch their BABY girl all bloated and decomposing... and then go rent movies and shake their @ss at a club days later!
Apparently the whole killing thing didn't seem to bother KC much... but you'd think that seeing Caylee in that condition would scar her for life. It's like, she was over it instantly.\
how do you get on a stage and laugh and grind up on people just days after moving the dead body of your toddler????

You know I'm in double shock...
When my son was the same age as Caylee (almost 3 years old), he had to have his tonsils removed. We were in an outpatient center. They gave him a mild sedative pre-op but he still wanted me with him. The nurses let me go back to the surgery area with him to be put to sleep. I gowned, put on a mask and gloved up and went back with him to be put to sleep. I watched as they put him on the bed and he was calm knowing I was there. The nurse was singing him the Barney song as they started to give him the sleeping medicine. While holding my hand, he all of a sudden just went limp and went to sleep. I on the other hand started crying and started to collapse. The anesthesiologist said "it's okay mom, he's asleep." But it was awful seeing your child just go to sleep like that. The nurse had to help me walk out of there. They told me it was okay, he would be awake in less than 10 minutes, that the procedure was brief. I sat in the waiting room crying and worrying about my son... but she was right.... a few minutes later the doctor came out and said everything went well, my son was in recovery and I could see him in a few minutes. My thing is HOW can a mother watch her child DIE and then bag her up, carry her around in her car for days while she's decomposing, touch her while she's docomposed and then just throw her away? All the while have a great time with her boyfriend? Cruel...heinous...

 

[sumbunny]

I would think the sodium content in cured meats (ie salami) would be present and unlike adipocere? (not overly sure, but i wouldn't think it would be all that similar when put under a microscope)

 

[KenoshaKid]

The bodies they were discussing were very, very old...bog bodies, so I don't think they were talking about the eyes. I'm not a dentist, but I did several google searches and everything I've found says teeth do have blood vessels, I've included a link.


http://www.dentalhealth.ie/dentalhealth/index.tmpl?secid=20020709225753&subid=20020822141909

I stand corrected. Thank you for the education!

 

[notthatsmart]

What I am still i shock over is... how can someone see/smell/touch their BABY girl all bloated and decomposing... and then go rent movies and shake their @ss at a club days later!
Apparently the whole killing thing didn't seem to bother KC much... but you'd think that seeing Caylee in that condition would scar her for life. It's like, she was over it instantly.\
how do you get on a stage and laugh and grind up on people just days after moving the dead body of your toddler????

Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head. I wonder if this is unprecedented. Ja said this was their first case where the mother did not have mental illness.

I think this is the 64000 dollar question. Many in the majority have asked this to only get answers that Kc is a monster. A monster beyond anything we have ever seen possibly.

They are going to ask a jury to believe this. They will indeed have to provide proof of this because most people just can't believe it.

Or it just didn't happen. Moo

 

[notthatsmart]

IIRC The adipocere like substance has not been proven to actually be adipocere. They haven't even tested it to see if it is or was. Furthermore, there has been no test on the adipocere like substance to see if it was like human adipocere.

So if I say i found a peanut butter like substance, or a substance like peanut butter, you should interpret that as it is not peanut butter, but like peanut butter. I would think. IMO

 

[The World According]

Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head. I wonder if this is unprecedented. Ja said this was their first case where the mother did not have mental illness.

I think this is the 64000 dollar question. Many in the majority have asked this to only get answers that Kc is a monster. A monster beyond anything we have ever seen possibly.

They are going to ask a jury to believe this. They will indeed have to provide proof of this because most people just can't believe it.

Or it just didn't happen. Moo

Don't worry friend, no one could imagine anyone doing any of the gruesome things that they did, but indeed there are folks , many, many folks in the prisons right now, Scott Peterson, for example. Who could imagine that the seemingly normal co worker and neighbor would not just ask for a divorce and let the little baby boy, already named and loved in his own family live rather than kill that beautiful, glowing young mother and Conner? No one could imagine. One has to defy everything they ever knew about human decency to imagine young , very young people cutting into the stomach of a woman to take out her baby, or do what the Charles Manson followers did. Somehow, they get convicted, so what is hard for us to imagine does happen and needs to be held to task. I was talking to an older friend of mine about just this kind of thing and he asked me, Julia do you believe in God and that he is here with you though you cannot see him? Of course I replied. Well, Julia if you believe in the bible, then you know that it is replete with examples of how evil is here too.
No good person could imagine Susan Smith or Dian Downs and what they did. That is the thing about a trial...one comes to understand that indeed they did do it. Where are they now?

Don't worry. As so many of our members have said, the very experienced prosecutors have got this. Scott was able to go out dancing and partying after what he did, and so was Casey. It is part of their sociopath spirit, or to simplify ...evil.

 

[yeknomaras]

IIRC The adipocere like substance has not been proven to actually be adipocere. They haven't even tested it to see if it is or was. Furthermore, there has been no test on the adipocere like substance to see if it was like human adipocere.

So if I say i found a peanut butter like substance, or a substance like peanut butter, you should interpret that as it is not peanut butter, but like peanut butter. I would think. IMO

I wonder if they are able to test to see if that's what it is? And if there's a way to pinpoint whether it is human or animal? That would be interesting to find out. It could be important to the case or easily explained away.

 

[notthatsmart]

Don't worry friend, no one could imagine anyone doing any of the gruesome things that they did, but indeed there are folks , many, many folks in the prisons right now, Scott Peterson, for example. Who could imagine that the seemingly normal co worker and neighbor would not just ask for a divorce and let the little baby boy, already named and loved in his own family live rather than kill that beautiful, glowing young mother and Conner? No one could imagine. One has to defy everything they ever knew about human decency to imagine young , very young people cutting into the stomach of a woman to take out her baby, or do what the Charles Manson followers did. Somehow, they get convicted, so what is hard for us to imagine does happen and needs to be held to task. I was talking to an older friend of mine about just this kind of thing and he asked me, Julia do you believe in God and that he is here with you though you cannot see him? Of course I replied. Well, Julia if you believe in the bible, then you know that it is replete with examples of how evil is here too.
No good person could imagine Susan Smith or Dian Downs and what they did. That is the thing about a trial...one comes to understand that indeed they did do it. Where are they now?

Don't worry. As so many of our members have said, the very experienced prosecutors have got this. Scott was able to go out dancing and partying after what he did, and so was Casey. It is part of their sociopath spirit, or to simplify ...evil.

I guess I would like to see a comparison to a mother that had come to know and love their child. Sp is no comparison at all and he had motive. Susan Smith confessed and did not handle the remains in a decomp stage as far as I know, so thats no comparison. I watched the Diane Downs story a couple of weeks ago, and I find her nothing like Kc in the least bit. I just wonder if there is a case somewhere in this country where a mother killed their child and then handled their remains in the semi advanced decomp stage and then went on as though nothing happened. Furthermore to not be mentally insane somehow. It is very difficult for me to believe that such a monster mother exist based on history and data. Could anyone point to a case that is even close in comparison where the mother did not claim insanity?

I think this is what the state is trying to say. We are implementing the death penalty also because this is our first case where the mother did not claim insanity. So in essence we are just following protocol. The subject or topic is about the decomp and how discusting that is, but it also paints a monster of a mother. So far, I just see speculation and test and process of elimination, but no proof that this is what happened. IMO

 

[notthatsmart]

I wonder if they are able to test to see if that's what it is? And if there's a way to pinpoint whether it is human or animal? That would be interesting to find out. It could be important to the case or easily explained away.

Yes somewhere in here someone posted a Dr response to this and he said that it could easily be determined in a lab environment. So I ask, why not determine it if it is so easy. Instead we get silence and no further test. I think it may be because the Dr Vass never said it was adipocere so why test it. He just said it was like adipocere. It is not the states job to prove something is not adipocere if they are not claiming that it is adipocere. So it is left up to the media to speculate.

There would have to be some official document claiming that it is adipocere and has been tested and proven to be so. That document does not exist, nor has the state ever claimed there was adipocere on any napkins. IMO

 

[Tulessa]

IIRC The adipocere like substance has not been proven to actually be adipocere. They haven't even tested it to see if it is or was. Furthermore, there has been no test on the adipocere like substance to see if it was like human adipocere.

So if I say i found a peanut butter like substance, or a substance like peanut butter, you should interpret that as it is not peanut butter, but like peanut butter. I would think. IMO

BBM. Link please?

 

[21merc7]

Actually, as far as the napkins go, we don't know if they have not been tested or are currently awaiting testing. Just because the info has not been released under the crazy "Sunshine Law" does not mean it is not there. I am not certain we will see all of the evidence and results until trial anyhow.

 

[Harmony 2]

Yes somewhere in here someone posted a Dr response to this and he said that it could easily be determined in a lab environment. So I ask, why not determine it if it is so easy. Instead we get silence and no further test. I think it may be because the Dr Vass never said it was adipocere so why test it. He just said it was like adipocere. It is not the states job to prove something is not adipocere if they are not claiming that it is adipocere. So it is left up to the media to speculate.

There would have to be some official document claiming that it is adipocere and has been tested and proven to be so. That document does not exist, nor has the state ever claimed there was adipocere on any napkins. IMO

It was early grave wax. We can go round and round but I will stop here because we will have to wait till trial to hear what Dr. Vass says. I also noted in this last doc dump that the VFA butyric acid was scraped from the huge stain that was on the liner.

Here are some cases where women killed their kids:

http://crime.about.com/od/female_offenders/p/deathrowwomen1.htm

http://crime.about.com/od/female_offenders/a/mother_killers.htm

 

[21merc7]

It was early grave wax. We can go round and round but I will stop here because we will have to wait till trial to hear what Dr. Vass says. I also noted in this last doc dump that the VFA butyric acid was scraped from the huge stain that was on the liner.

Here are some cases where women killed their kids:

http://crime.about.com/od/female_offenders/p/deathrowwomen1.htm

http://crime.about.com/od/female_offenders/a/mother_killers.htm

Thanks Harmony2, I have been wondering about the liner.