Dead Pets

[KenoshaKid]

If this was supposed to tie GA to it somehow, it didn't work on me. I just now know where ICA got the idea to prep the body for "burial". Epic fail.

 

[ami]

Wow, that testimony about the pets filled in so many blanks for me!

I have believed ICA is guilty, no question. However I've never been sure if what she did to Caylee was planned, spur of the moment, done in rage, done without any emotion or what.

After hearing the pet testimony and knowing there is soon to be proof positive that Cindy never searched anything about chloroform - but admitting that the dogs were sick and lethargic that spring, put together with other mother and child dogs dying close together and unexpectedly a bit before that, plus searching "how to make chloroform" along with other methods of death and killing...

I mean the story seems to be gelling now that it's possible they had a psychopath in the home that was using poison or other such drugs on the family pets. If they would "get sick" and eventually die, this would mean it was an incremental thing. We've all watched as ICA becomes gleeful when she sees her parents suffer. What better entertainment for her then to watch her parents' reaction as the dogs become sick... then sicker.... then sicker.... then die... one at a time... Cindy's "babies"...

Did ICA experiment on them with George's blood pressure meds? Were any meds ever missing in the Anthony house?

And that same psychopath fantasizing about gorier methods of death as she searched for neck breaking and ruptured spleens, etc. What things around the house could she use to kill someone? And then arriving at the household 'weapons' of bleach and pool shock or similar to make chloroform.... testing it incrementally on the dogs.... eventually her own daughter.

To me, this testimony re: pets dying speaks more to premeditation than anything other than the chloroform searches in March. I can finally see a realistic pattern of someone building up to this murder for years. Whether it's true what I've written or not, I can SEE how this could happen now. It's not like she was a normal young lady, perhaps yes a habitual liar and petty thief, but essentially normal besides those vices, suddenly becoming a killer for no clear reason. There is now a path that makes sense in my head of how this murder was not "sudden", how this murder was an escalation of previous experiments. It's one potential path - and a completely chillingly realistic one - that has proof at well spaced points along the way pointing to ICA as an escalating psychopath.

 

[Macmom]

Can someone tell me if Kio Cruz will testify in rebuttal? If not, why? I realize she sold her story but so did everyone else, right? IMO this would be not just the nail in the coffin but the vacuum seal on the vault. What a beautiful set up by Jose with the pet burials and then SA could knock it out the park with Kio and the animals with stickers on their dead bodies. Does anyone know if LE spoke with Jessica Kelly (I believe that was her last name) and did she confirm the story?

 

[Beatrice]

Kiomarie Cruz should have testified....She had the answers right from the beginning.

 

[STEADFAST]

Sorry, But I gotta ask... Is that dog on the chaise googling chloroform?

If you look closely at his screen, you'll see he's on Websleuths. :seeya:

 

[bananarama]

The shock is that JB created a picture in the jurors' minds of Casey taking something dead, wrapping it in a blanket, putting it in garbage bags, using tape (somehow) in the process, maybe adding some "love" token, getting a shovel, and placing the dead thing on the ground in the back yard.

Now it will be easier for the jurors to continue the mental movie on their own: ... and then she realized she couldn't dig the grave there and put the "package" in her trunk and drove around wondering what to do until it finally smelled so awful that she threw it into a swamp.

..and really, it's a simple as that. Thank you JB, you tied it all together very neatly!

 

[Mystic]

This was very damaging for the DT, Jose really didnt' think that thru.

For me it highlighted that it was premeditation. There was often the question why ICA would dump Caylee so close to home as in where was the 'plan'. What to do with her childs body was probably the easiest part of her plan with little or no thought to what she would do. The issue arose when she probably couldn't get into the shed and time was running late for her date...so she came back the next day and borrowed the shovel. Guess she found quite quickly she was too optimistic in her physical ability and put Caylee in the trunk if she'd left her in the playhouse until she returned or back in the trunk if not. (recall the laundry bag with handles)

Also, guess the DT took RK off the hook as well as GA since he could dig a hole and had access to all his shovels. And the chloroform searches did really make the sleepy, lethargic dogs not look too good either.

I can understand JB and ICA's inability to think anything thru against the discovery but what is the rest of the DT doing here??? just Wow!

 

[bananarama]

I worked for a vet for about a year (10 years ago). When an animal was put down, yes, it would be placed in the blanket the owner brought in (if they had one). and then the body was placed in black plastic bags and the bags taped shut. The owner would then either take the pet home to bury or it would be put in a freezer until collected by the guy that disposed of them. Sorry if that was too graphic.

Thank you so much for explaining that. We've had to put several cats down over the years and I never wanted to ask how they held them for cremation. I feel better knowing they were wrapped first, rather than just piled up in a freezer, which is how I pictured it could have been!

 

[TrY]

If you go to the WFTV site, the videoclip 5 of trial day June 30 2011

http://www.wftv.com/caseyanthony/28083402/detail.html

has the pet burial testimony from GA, CA, and LA.

http://www.wftv.com/video/28408667/index.html

 

[nephers]

Thank you so much for explaining that. We've had to put several cats down over the years and I never wanted to ask how they held them for cremation. I feel better knowing they were wrapped first, rather than just piled up in a freezer, which is how I pictured it could have been!

I'm happy that makes you feel better...I cannot speak for every vet facility but where I worked, all pets were taken care of out of sheer respect whether they were to be given to the family or cremated.

 

[Aedrys]

This whole dead pets thing just gave me a horrific thought. I bet Casey thought she'd get away with killing Caylee and burying her because she had killed the pets before and buried them, and was never made to pay consequences for it. What I'm saying is, her parents KNEW she was killing those pets, but let them be buried and acted like it was no big deal. So Casey figured she could do the same to Caylee, and get the same reaction from her parents. No wonder she didn't understand why the police had to get involved or why Caylee's death was such a big deal. Caylee wasn't worth much more to Casey than the family pets. She was just the newest pet, and like the rest, had to go at some point. And like the pets, she'd be buried, the family would move on, a new pet would eventually enter the picture, and they would forget that Caylee ever existed. Holy Cow.

ETA: I also think she was upset about animals getting to Caylee because her family couldn't get all of Caylee back even if they had managed to find the bag. In other words, Casey knew she was screwed for sure and did NOT like hearing over and over how Caylee was pulled apart and scattered because it meant no sweeping Caylee under the rug and Casey living happily ever after with no consequences. It's why she initally said Caylee would be as she was. She really believed the bag would be intact and Caylee's remains would all be in one place to retrieve and bury elsewhere.

ETA2: And maybe what Lee meant when he said this was just like last time was in reference to a lost pet, not Caylee? Maybe Casey killed a pet and lied about it, and they eventually figured out she had killed the pet? I can see him being so upset at Casey being pregnant if Casey was killing family pets for years and then she was bringing a baby into the world. Maybe he knew deep inside what was eventually going to happen and couldn't face it? Maybe he didn't want to believe she'd kill a child versus an animal?

 

[Eidetic]

It's too bad there are no dog autopsies, to show what the contents of the dogs stomachs were prior to their death - it's pretty common knowledge that chocolate is toxic to dogs. Probably pretty easy for a teenage ICA to feed them chocolate.
What else is poisonous to dogs? What else could ICA have killed them with?

Wonder if the State will try and get vet records before the case concludes or if that is even necessary given all the other evidence - the hint or possibility that she had a hand in it is probably enough for the jury - I know it's giving me chills now.

Antifreeze
Signs and symptoms

Symptoms of ethylene glycol poisoning usually follow a three-step progression, although poisoned individuals will not always develop each stage.[1]
Stage 1 (0.5 to 12 hours) consists of neurological and gastrointestinal symptoms; people may appear to be intoxicated, exhibiting symptoms such as dizziness, incoordination of muscle movements, nystagmus, headaches, slurred speech, and confusion. Irritation to the stomach may cause nausea and vomiting.[1] Over time, the body metabolizes ethylene glycol into other toxins.
Stage 2 (12 to 36 hours) is a result of accumulation of organic acids formed by the metabolism of ethylene glycol and consists of increased heart rate, high blood pressure, hyperventilation, and metabolic acidosis. Additionally low calcium levels in the blood, overactive muscle reflexes, muscle spasms, QT interval prolongation, and congestive heart failure may occur. If untreated, death most commonly occurs during this period.[1]
Stage 3 (24 to 72 hours) kidney failure is the result of ethylene glycol poisoning. Symptoms include acute tubular necrosis, red blood cells in the urine, excess proteins in the urine, lower back pain, decreased production of urine, absent production of urine, elevated blood level of potassium, and acute kidney failure.[2][3] If kidney failure occurs it is typically reversible, although weeks or months of supportive care including hemodialysis may be required before kidney function returns.[1]
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylene_glycol_poisoning"]Ethylene glycol poisoning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Ethylene_glycol.svg" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Ethylene_glycol.svg/230px-Ethylene_glycol.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/a/a6/Ethylene_glycol.svg/230px-Ethylene_glycol.svg.png[/ame]

Grapes/raisins
The minimum toxic dose is approximately 1 grape per pound of body weight.

15 lb dog = 12-14 grapes could be deadly
25 lb. dog = 23 grapes could be deadly
50 lb. dog = 50+ grapes could be deadly
75 lb. dog = 75 grapes could be deadly

Raisins, having lost their water content are considered more toxic at 6 raisins per kg of body weight, or 2-3 raisins per pound of body weight. Think how many raisins are in ONE small snack pack of raisins ? maybe enough to kill your dog.

15 lb. dog = 30-45 raisins could be deadly
25 lb. dog = 50-75 raisins could be deadly
50 lb. dog = 100-150 raisins could be deadly
75 lb. dog = 150-225 raisins could be deadly

What are the symptoms?

Symptoms appear 6-24 hours after the dog eats raisins or grapes (average is 12 hours). Initially, symptoms are gastro-intestinal signs, followed by kidney problems.

Vomiting is usually the primary sign, with diarrhea, depression/lethargy, anorexia, colic, dehydration and sharply decreased urine output. The course of the toxicosis is anywhere from 3 days to 3 weeks. Dogs with kidney problems have a guarded to poor prognosis.
http://deanscyberspace.wordpress.com/2005/12/06/raisins-grapes-poisonous-to-dogs/

Chocolate toxicity
symptoms:
Hyper excitability
Hyper irritability
Increased heart rate
Restlessness
Increased urination
Muscle tremors
Vomiting
Diarrhea


Coffee Grounds and Beans

Some dogs will eat anything, especially if they're enjoying a forbidden treat from a trash can.

Coffee grounds and beans have caffeine in them, and dogs that eat them can suffer from caffeine toxicity.

The symptoms of coffee toxicity are similar to the symptoms of chocolate toxicity, and just as serious, if not more so.
http://www.dog-first-aid-101.com/toxic-foods.html


Yeast Dough (Unbaked Bread)

If you bake bread, you know that the dough needs a warm, moist environment to expand.

Your dog's stomach is a nice warm, moist environment, and so, the dough can expand to many times its size when first ingested.

This distends his abdomen and can cause pain.

Another issue with raw dough is the rising process itself.

The dough rises because the yeast ferments it. The fermentation results in alcohol, which can cause alcohol toxicity (see below).


Toxic signs seen from tobacco ingestion
The first thing the body does after ingestion of tobacco/nicotine is to get rid of it, seen as vomiting. Here are the common signs from nicotine toxicity:
&#8226;vomiting
&#8226;diarrhea
&#8226;tremors or trembling
&#8226;drooling, hypersalivation
&#8226;constricted pupils
&#8226;excitement, odd behavior
&#8226;seizures
&#8226;death
http://vetmedicine.about.com/od/toxicology/qt/nicotine-toxicity.htm

 

[eleni777]

This whole dead pets thing just gave me a horrific thought. I bet Casey thought she'd get away with killing Caylee and burying her because she had killed the pets before and buried them, and was never made to pay consequences for it. What I'm saying is, her parents KNEW she was killing those pets, but let them be buried and acted like it was no big deal. So Casey figured she could do the same to Caylee, and get the same reaction from her parents. No wonder she didn't understand why the police had to get involved or why Caylee's death was such a big deal. Caylee wasn't worth much more to Casey than the family pets. She was just the newest pet, and like the rest, had to go at some point. And like the pets, she'd be buried, the family would move on, a new pet would eventually enter the picture, and they would forget that Caylee ever existed. Holy Cow.

ETA: I also think she was upset about animals getting to Caylee because her family couldn't get all of Caylee back even if they had managed to find the bag. In other words, Casey knew she was screwed for sure and did NOT like hearing over and over how Caylee was pulled apart and scattered because it meant no sweeping Caylee under the rug and Casey living happily ever after with no consequences.

Only a mentally insane person would be able to rationalize in this manner. "Oh I'm going to kill my daughter and bury her in the backyard with all our beloved pets and nobody will notice that she's gone."

I guess that is my problem..I'm trying to understanding why a crazy person behaves they way they do.

 

[Linda7NJ]

sniped

Antifreeze
Signs and symptoms


Grapes/raisins
The minimum toxic dose is approximately 1 grape per pound of body weight.

15 lb dog = 12-14 grapes could be deadly
25 lb. dog = 23 grapes could be deadly
50 lb. dog = 50+ grapes could be deadly
75 lb. dog = 75 grapes could be deadly

Raisins, having lost their water content are considered more toxic at 6 raisins per kg of body weight, or 2-3 raisins per pound of body weight. Think how many raisins are in ONE small snack pack of raisins ? maybe enough to kill your dog.

15 lb. dog = 30-45 raisins could be deadly
25 lb. dog = 50-75 raisins could be deadly
50 lb. dog = 100-150 raisins could be deadly
75 lb. dog = 150-225 raisins could be deadly

What are the symptoms?

Symptoms appear 6-24 hours after the dog eats raisins or grapes (average is 12 hours). Initially, symptoms are gastro-intestinal signs, followed by kidney problems.

Vomiting is usually the primary sign, with diarrhea, depression/lethargy, anorexia, colic, dehydration and sharply decreased urine output. The course of the toxicosis is anywhere from 3 days to 3 weeks. Dogs with kidney problems have a guarded to poor prognosis.
http://deanscyberspace.wordpress.com/2005/12/06/raisins-grapes-poisonous-to-dogs/

http://vetmedicine.about.com/od/toxicology/qt/nicotine-toxicity.htm

My doberman LOVES grapes and necterines. I've always shared, I had no idea grapes were dangerous for dogs.

 

[Aedrys]

Only a mentally insane person would be able to rationalize in this manner. "Oh I'm going to kill my daughter and bury her in the backyard with all our beloved pets and nobody will notice that she's gone."

I guess that is my problem..I'm trying to understanding why a crazy person behaves they way they do.

It makes sense if the family knew Casey was killing these pets and didn't do anything about it. I really think Caylee was nothing more than an annoying pet to Casey, something that yapped at her heels and constantly wanted her attention. I own a dog, and have a stepdaughter, and they can be twins in their needs at times. I even almost consider my dog to be my child at times. I would never put my dog's life over my stepdaughter's - I understand there's a huge difference there. But I really think Casey DIDN'T understand the difference. Pets and kids were one and the same for her. I'm sure she never took care of any of the family pets because her mom always did. I'm sure Cindy got on to her about taking care of her pets too before Caylee came. I'm sure Cindy also doted on the family pets, probably sometimes more than she doted on Casey. And when Casey got jealous enough, she killed the pets, the pets were buried, and the family moved on. The family knew she killed these pets, but never made an issue of it. So because Casey's not mentally right in the head, she used the same logic from her treatment of the pets on Caylee. Caylee became too annoying to care for, there was too much attention on Caylee and not enough on Casey, and so she killed her and buried her just like she did the other family pets. And she expected that the family was just move on and find another pet. She never thought she'd get into trouble because she never got into trouble for killing the family pets.

You'd have to be mental to equate kids and pets like that, and I think Casey mental enough to do it. Or maybe I'm going mental myself, LOL.

 

[rose222]

I look at the few photos of a young Casey and the latest video of her as a child and maybe my opinion is colored by what is charged with now. I see a not-so-good child, she has the "look" about her even at that age. Like the movie the good son? I do believe that some people are just born evil (just the way it is or past life stuff or whatever) I don't need familial/social factors to account for everything. I can fully picture her hurting animals even as a kid. Sorry.

 

[athy]

everyone's been talking about the deep dark secrets the Anthony's haven't spoken about. i wonder if they've either known or were suspecting ICA was the reason behind the animals deaths. perhaps not all but some. they might have wondered themselves but this family loves denial. THIS could be what that secret is the family has been very careful about revealing

 

[portablethought]

Cindy said the dogs were unusually lethargic or tired - evidence of ICA trying out chloroform on them first?

 

[txsvicki]

Amy had a couple of odd things happen to her involving sleep, too.

 

[Capri]

Amy had a couple of odd things happen to her involving sleep, too.

While ICA was spending the night IIRC...hmmmm