Deaths of Male College Students-General Discussion #1

[Littledeer]

SS:

Are you saying that it was all random...........with no similarities between the victims?

Has that kind of "serial killing" been done before that has been documented?

 

[ekj_88]

Hi! I attend the U of M in Minneapolis where Chris Jenkins went to school as well. I was reading our campus paper today and they had an article about him and the connections to the other cases. I don't know if this will have any new info but I figured I'd post the link anyway.

http://www.mndaily.com/articles/2008/04/29/72166961

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Hi SS!! Good to "see" you here. I had "kicked out" in quotes b/c it isn't clear in Jenkin's case, but is also not clear in Kruziki's case - there are conflicting reports.

In Kruziki's case, it was freezing temps and he left the bar w/o his jacket - or was kicked out and denied his jacket - again it is not clear.

:blowkiss: Good to see you, Ang! I had no doubt you would join in.

Yes, it is curious there are conflicting reports. What would make the head bouncer so adamant he didn't kick him out and the other three followed his lead then shut up about it? I found it very interesting.

When people are kicked out of a bar, I have never heard of the bar holding onto personal items either! This is something that has come up a couple of times. It puts the men in an even more vulnerable state with no jacket or phone.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

SS:

Are you saying that it was all random...........with no similarities between the victims?

Has that kind of "serial killing" been done before that has been documented?

No, I didn't say that. I just don't think their eye color, hair color, or physical characteristics besides being athletic type/healthy males played any part in their selection is all. It must be something else, imo.

 

[DeltaDawn]

DD, if you put 40 college boys together...you are going to find similiar characteristics in many of them. I just don't see this as a factor here tho. (You could say they were all men that many women their age would find attractive, too...but it doesn't mean it is what groups them together in any specific way.)

I agree SS. I was just responding to Littledeer's question about physical similarities.
I think that who ever does this is looking for similiar physical characteristics as in height, weight, age, phyiscal condition..I think that comes into play for the perps during the torture. Meaning they use the drugs to get them, but that when it is time for the torture they want smart, physically strong and healthy specimans. This is really sick, I even hated writing something like that. But I think that they would never prey on the weak, they just wouldn't get a thrill out of that so to speak. For some reason they seem to prefer a very specific individual that meets whatever their criteria is. Just disgusting what these people are doing.

 

[Blink34]

My impression was that Chris and Josh's scent should not have been there because this area is where the monks live on campus and students would not normally go there. I could be wrong but there is more info at the site. You have to look through the whole site to get info..but at one point they put a restraining order against Guimond's father I believe, because he insisted there was foul play from the beginning and for quite sometime he was not even allowed on campus to search. Interesting .

The other odd thing is that Chris Jenkins attended U of Minn , not this college, but their two disappearances happened only 9 days apart...10/31/02 for Chris and 11/9/02 for Josh. Josh did attend this school.

Do you know if the same dogs were used at both sites when they went missing or other?

 

[Silver~Bell]

If you are like I used to be, you might be unaware that the web is absolutely crawling with a lot of bizarre "fetish" groups. So I don't discount the idea of a "group" and think it more plausible than a "gang."

If you look at when these similar "drownings" began, some were back before the internet was used by very many people, but you'll note many more instances once the internet became common. One possible reason: These similar-minded perps were able to communicate with one another via their groups on the web. Birds of a feather flock together. There are literally 1000's and 10's of 1000's who participate in bizarre things and travel to do so. They just shut down an "orgy house" in Texas and it's not the only one by any means.

Even tiny towns where you'd think they'd be isolated can have these internet-based groups come in and buy a house and use it for terrible purposes.

There is an entire bizarre underworld going on 24/7. I for one find it to be almost like having some horrible nightmare and wishing to wake up because it's just so crazy. On top of the horrible news out of Austria about the captive daughter, the news out of Florida about a young man kidnapped and held for ransom, now this terrible specter of a group of killers.

By the way, I did a Google search of "smily face" (spelled funny on purpose) and one thing I saw was a site that said it had "smily faces with a bullet hole in head" backgrounds for MySpace pages. But I was too scared to click on the site.

 

[Blink34]

They are trying to say,he stole the car and dropped his cell phone,all this because he was supposedly so drunk. I will be very curious to see,just how drunk he really was,when the tox report comes back.
And let me ask you this? How many people know how to steal a car? I haven't heard if the DEC left it unlocked with the keys in it.And if they did,he just randomly found this car and decided to take it to the river? Did Josh,know how to hotwire a car? And if he was so drunk,would he be capable of it?

Unless I am wrong, they initally named him as a suspect in stealing the car but they publicly apologized for that and they no longer consider him a suspect- if that's incorrect anyone let me know-

 

[DeltaDawn]

Welcome ejk88..and thank you for that link.

http://www.mndaily.com/articles/2008/04/29/72166961


The investigators said the gangs leave specific graffiti at the sites of their killings, including a smiley face at the site of Chris Jenkins' murder, as well as 12 other symbols repeated throughout the 40 cases, Steve Jenkins said.
St. Cloud State University associate professor Lee Gilbertson, a member of the investigative team, said the private investigators had the benefit of seeing larger patterns in the evidence of the 40 disappearances, whereas local authorities looked at only the isolated cases. "In every case, the physical evidence led in one direction and the body was found in another," Gilbertson said.

I wonder what the 12 other specific symbols are?

 

[SeriouslySearching]

The investigators said the gangs leave specific graffiti at the sites of their killings, including a smiley face at the site of Chris Jenkins' murder, as well as 12 other symbols repeated throughout the 40 cases, Steve Jenkins said.

~snip~

Steve Jenkins said the graffiti represents concrete physical evidence and that the investigators also corroborated the accounts of alleged witnesses from other disappearances. Additionally, Jenkins said the investigators have identified suspects, although they've declined to release names.

~snip~

The investigators, who have been working unpaid on the cases for two years, met four weeks ago with Minneapolis police to present their evidence, but approached the national media after local authorities didn't act, Steve Jenkins said.

"There's a lot more evidence that they did not share (with police)," Steve Jenkins said. "They showed just enough to get the (authorities') interest in collaboration."

The investigators and families are hoping media attention will lead to FBI and other federal authority involvement; if that fails they'll pressure the U.S. Senate to convene a grand jury, Steve Jenkins said.

http://www.mndaily.com/articles/2008/04/29/72166961 (Bolded by me)

Welcome to WS, Ekj 88! Thanks for posting that link as it did bring up some new information...at least to me.

What are the other symbols besides the smiley faces?

I think the reason they chose to go public isn't for money for themselves, but was an effort to get the resources from the other LE agencies. If the local agencies and the state were to pick up the cases...they would have access to areas such as laboratories to help bring these cases together. It makes perfect sense to me for them to come forward to put pressure on LE now.

 

[DeltaDawn]

Do you know if the same dogs were used at both sites when they went missing or other?

I think that the same dogs were used at the college where both their scents were found..meaning this tracking occurred at the same time. So some one must have thought there could be a connection between the two disappearances to even have dogs tracking both the kids scent at the same college. I hope that made some sense.

 

[MissHolmes]

Couple of questions. The detectives in their GMA interview mentioned that at least two of the murders happened at the same time 600 miles apart. Has anyone found this connection?

And in the same interview when they showed the map of the states popping up where these murders have taken place Washington State was included. Has anyone found this/those murders?

Hope Im not repeating questions, just got home)

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Welcome to WS, Silver~Bell and Porkchop!

 

[Littledeer]

I agree SS. I was just responding to Littledeer's question about physical similarities.

And I thank you for that DD. And there are similarities...........what they are is what I was trying to look for. Started with physical...(which there are many that have the same)..........

But there are also others (built, etc.).

What's really scary IMO, is how smart these killers are. They lead the LE in one direction based on evidence and yet............the bodies are found in a completely different direction in most cases. (not all..........)

Someone mentioned before internet.......................I was posting before internet came from (blah blah blah) that started in (blah blah blah) and we got together at a picnic..............it was at that time just a group of HONEST PEOPLE, and it was surprising to actually see the individuals in person that belong to the nick they had. But in today's world, it is so scary because anyone can be anyone and yet NOT WHO THEY ARE.

No, I really am Littledeer who cares....................Just adding my 2 cents worth.

 

[Blink34]

I think that the same dogs were used at the college where both their scents were found..meaning this tracking occurred at the same time. So some one must have thought there could be a connection between the two disappearances to even have dogs tracking both the kids scent at the same college. I hope that made some sense.

yes, but I think it does dilute the result actually, it would have been better to use them seperately as Chris would not have had a reason to be there. k9 use can be excellent, but TES has told me it has alot of flaws when going to a well traveled site vs. say, a secluded area. Thanks DD

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Miss Holmes, we have people cross-referencing dates etc. to possibly connect the dots. I don't think they have come up with anything yet, but I could be mistaken.

I don't know about Washington State connections either. I will check on those. Anyone?

ETA: I started a thread for possible victims from WA state. Feel free to add cases which could relate.

 

[SuziQ]

Let's see how they feel after Josh Szotak's autopsy tomorrow with Dr. Baden

After conducting a second autopsy Monday on drowning victim Joshua Szostak, forensic pathologist Dr. Michael Baden apparently also concluded the death was due to accidental drowning, law enforcement officials said. (more at link)

http://timesunion.com/AspStories/st...tegory=ALBANY&BCCode=LOCAL&newsdate=4/29/2008

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Baden performed the procedure at Parker Bros. Memorial Funeral Home in Watervliet. The pathologist, who has been involved in numerous high-profile cases, was tight-lipped when he came out, declining to make the results public. Calls to the Szostaks and to Baden were not returned. Law enforcement officials who said the latest autopsy also found the death was accidental did not want to be named.

~snip~

Unless something comes to the surface, indicating anything different, that's the way the case will stand," Detective James Miller, public safety spokesman, said Monday. "The autopsy by Dr. Baden was not requested by the Albany police or the New York State Police."

Hubbard had said that blood and tissue samples taken during his autopsy are being tested for traces of alcohol or drugs and that results would take about two weeks.

http://timesunion.com/AspStories/st...tegory=ALBANY&BCCode=LOCAL&newsdate=4/29/2008

It is important to note that none of this came from Dr. Baden and only from LE. I don't think I want to trust LE's take on Dr. Baden's results.

 

[DeltaDawn]

Hi Miss Holmes,

Shadow posted this and I think as we keep cross referencing we will find more. I am trying to work on the Halloween date of 10/31 and 11/1, since it would be 11/1 if it was after midnight.

Here's what I have, though, this may not even be remotely accurate:

1997-12-31: Ryan Getz, Student, 21, East Lansing, MI [Drowning]​

1997-12-31: Larry Andrews, N/A, 22, NYC, NY [Drowning]​

[removed non-identical dates]​

2006-04-01: Wade Michael Lurk, Student, 17, Ste. Genevieve, MO [Drowning]​

2006-04-01: Brian Shaffer, Student, 27, Columbus, OH [Missing]​

 

[SuziQ]

Hi! I attend the U of M in Minneapolis where Chris Jenkins went to school as well. I was reading our campus paper today and they had an article about him and the connections to the other cases. I don't know if this will have any new info but I figured I'd post the link anyway.

http://www.mndaily.com/articles/2008/04/29/72166961

Welcome to WS! I found the below quotes in bold, from your link interesting. Shows me why LE still may not be interested.


Steve Jenkins said the graffiti represents concrete physical evidence and that the investigators also corroborated the accounts of alleged witnesses from other disappearances. Additionally, Jenkins said the investigators have identified suspects, although they've declined to release names. "There's a lot more evidence that they did not share (with police)," Steve Jenkins said. "They showed just enough to get the (authorities') interest in collaboration."