Deaths of Male College Students-General Discussion #1

[shadowraiths]

I found this comment interesting:

Pertaining to the "Smiley Murder---" It may be the work of an unknown college Fraternal group to get accepted in the fraternal organization, such as "skull". See what colleges the missing kids went to, are these Frats also in those areas? How about the disapearance time, are they at the same time of the year where the frats initiation taks place? Since most the missing were smart and above average, is this Frat or "Gangs" trying to prove that they are smarter? Detectives Kevin Gannon and Anthony Duarte may need to dig deeper in these and other common areas. ZO, Texas

The reader is possibly taking of the Skull and Bones. It's been around for ages and a lot of conspiracy stories surround this particular college fraternity.

 

[Blink34]

I hope this case goes to fruition and they close many of these cases in spite of LE's efforts to thwart them. I know many of you disagree with me calling LE and the FBI into question time and time again...but if what these men (might I mention are highly decorated retired LE officers) are saying is true...then it will show how ineffective these agencies have been when it comes to missing person cases across the country. It could be the best thing that ever happened to forward how things are approached with LE in the future. One of the smartest things that the Jenkins did was to hire a PI to run a parallel investigation. I applaud them!

Based on my personal experience and reviewing these cases, I agree completely. Not placing blame, just saying the "approach" is wrong and allowing perps to thrive- I would not go to my dentist for a gyn exam (not to be glib but trying to drive the point) so missing person's cases should be investigated by "specialists trained just for that..", imo

 

[eve]

The reader is possibly taking of the Skull and Bones. It's been around for ages and a lot of conspiracy stories surround this particular college fraternity.

Bush Sr. and John Kerry were members. Among other esteemed politicians and businessmen. Somehow I highly doubt this group is murdering young men who in fact seem somewhat similar in demographics to its own members. Most of these young men, while not of the prominence and wealth of Bush and Kerry, perhaps, have been described as scholastic achievers from "good" families. Good-looking, well-spoken, athletic, fun-loving, like to party and popular, for the most part. Almost fraternity-types, themselves, imo.

Eve

 

[Blink34]

Bush Sr. and John Kerry were members. Among other esteemed politicians and businessmen. Somehow I highly doubt this group is murdering young men who in fact seem somewhat similar in demographics to its own members. Most of these young men, while not of the prominence and wealth of Bush and Kerry, perhaps, have been described as scholastic achievers from "good" families. Good-looking, well-spoken, athletic, fun-loving, like to party and popular, for the most part. Almost fraternity-types, themselves, imo.

Eve

I dont think they are involved certainly, per se, but I believe there are similarities in terms of structure, maybe even in the reverse, like perhaps making the men that COULD be in the actual Bones club are there targets? Sorry for the bad analogy but for lack of a better one, revenge of the nerds

 

[fran]

Hockeymom, I hope you don't mind me bringing your post over from the victims thread. I thought it was interesting and didn't want anyone to miss it.

Today, 07:35 AM
hockeymom

vbmenu_register("postmenu_2169898", true);
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: clifton park,ny
Posts: 2,090


Doctor Michael Baden to do 2nd autopsy on Josh Szostak.

http://timesunion.com/AspStories/sto...date=4/28/2008

I wonder if they checked that recovered stolen vehicle for any traces of Joshua? IF NOT, they SHOULD! IMHO

I'm glad Dr. Baden is getting involved. He definitely knows his stuff!

fran


http://timesunion.com/AspStories/st...tegory=FRONTPG&BCCode=HOME&newsdate=4/28/2008

<<snip>>

After his disappearance on Dec. 23, 2007, Joshua Szostak's cellphone was found outside a Port of Albany Department of Environmental Conservation garage where a car had been stolen. The car was driven to the Port of Albany and abandoned. There was no trace of Szostak at that location.

 

[Blink34]

I wonder if they checked that recovered stolen vehicle for any traces of Joshua? IF NOT, they SHOULD! IMHO

I'm glad Dr. Baden is getting involved. He definitely knows his stuff!

fran


http://timesunion.com/AspStories/st...tegory=FRONTPG&BCCode=HOME&newsdate=4/28/2008

<<snip>>

After his disappearance on Dec. 23, 2007, Joshua Szostak's cellphone was found outside a Port of Albany Department of Environmental Conservation garage where a car had been stolen. The car was driven to the Port of Albany and abandoned. There was no trace of Szostak at that location.

Was the car recovered?

 

[DeltaDawn]

When I watched GMA this morning I did pick up one new fact which the detectives had not said before, atleast I missed it before.

The dates and times of some of the dissappearances coincide and yet are 400 to 600 miles apart.

That is what has lead them to believe that there is a cult or group spread out over the country doing this at specific times. Then the smiley faces and similiar graffitti at the sites, members names etc.

I think if they ever put out a list of all the vics they suspect then we will be able to see which occurred in different parts of the country on the exact same night.

Maybe we should start to go through the missing men's dates of going missing and we may be able to find some that are on their list they haven't made public.

There are over 80 comments now on the GMA site and they are quite an interesting read.

 

[MCDRAW]

Offhanded thought after reading the McNeill story, although it applies to others in our loose group of victims: What will make a young male leave a young lady waiting for a ride? Or disappear suddenly from his friends at a bar? The only thing I can think of to accomplish this in a discreet manner is an(other) attractive female. Although some of the cases had notable confrontations (Chris Jenkins) associated with the disappearance, others have a “vanished into thin air” feel. Is it possible a woman is involved?

C6

Good idea. Maybe she is the one that picks the target. I think there is a good chance that a woman is involved.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

When I watched GMA this morning I did pick up one new fact which the detectives had not said before, atleast I missed it before.

The dates and times of some of the dissappearances coincide and yet are 400 to 600 miles apart.

That is what has lead them to believe that there is a cult or group spread out over the country doing this at specific times. Then the smiley faces and similiar graffitti at the sites, members names etc.

I think if they ever put out a list of all the vics they suspect then we will be able to see which occurred in different parts of the country on the exact same night.

Maybe we should start to go through the missing men's dates of going missing and we may be able to find some that are on their list they haven't made public.

There are over 80 comments now on the GMA site and they are quite an interesting read.

We have their list in the forum. I haven't checked on that yet tho.

 

[hockeymom]

Was the car recovered?

The car was recovered,and at the Port of Albany where supposedly the body went in the water. The Albany PD,only checked for fingerprints on the steering wheel,and the drivers side handle (none found that I know of,but it was winter). No DNA or testing in any other part of the vehicle. Also I'm not positive,but I believe his cell phone was found not at the place the car was stolen from,but where they found the car.
I listened to the interview with the Dad and I'm positive there was foul play.The Port of Albany is in the total opposite direction of where Josh's car was parked. He would have had to steal a vehicle and then drive in the opposite direction from his car/home. He also would have had to park the car and walk another 1,000 feet or so to get to the river. It was winter in upstate NY,not exactly a time for a nice stroll along the water.

 

[DeltaDawn]

We have their list in the forum. I haven't checked on that yet tho.

I thought their entire list wasn't public yet, just the Minna and WIsc cases? They also have linked cases in PA, NY etc but those names were not released from the detectives

 

[SuziQ]

I thought their entire list wasn't public yet, just the Minna and WIsc cases? They also have linked cases in PA, NY etc but those names were not released from the detectives

On a map in a Channel5 vid, they also show the state of Washington.

Thanks for the GMA link. The video is more complete than the one I found and posted this morning. Going to watch in now, then off to read the comments there.

 

[shadowraiths]

The dates and times of some of the dissappearances coincide and yet are 400 to 600 miles apart.

Here's what I have, though, this may not even be remotely accurate:

1997-12-31: Ryan Getz, Student, 21, East Lansing, MI [Drowning]
1997-12-31: Larry Andrews, N/A, 22, NYC, NY [Drowning]

[removed non-identical dates]

2006-04-01: Wade Michael Lurk, Student, 17, Ste. Genevieve, MO [Drowning]
2006-04-01: Brian Shaffer, Student, 27, Columbus, OH [Missing]​

 

[DeltaDawn]

Here's what I have, though, this may not even be remotely accurate:

1997-12-31: Ryan Getz, Student, 21, East Lansing, MI [Drowning]​

1997-12-31: Larry Andrews, N/A, 22, NYC, NY [Drowning]​

[removed non-identical dates]​

2006-04-01: Wade Michael Lurk, Student, 17, Ste. Genevieve, MO [Drowning]​

2006-04-01: Brian Shaffer, Student, 27, Columbus, OH
[Missing]
​

Thank you Shadow ..I also thought that there maybe a couple on Halloween night of the same year. But I am not sure on that at this point.

 

[DeltaDawn]

On a map in a Channel5 vic, they also show the state of Washington.

Thanks for the GMA link. The video is more complete than the one I found and posted this morning. Going to watch in now, then off to read the comments there.

Some of those comments , esspecially one or two from a lady who'se son possiblity had a similiar circumstance in a bar in one of these areas is interesting. He put a purple glass on the bar and asked for a refill. Three women came up and he turned to talk to them , quickly turned back and was watching the bartender take a green glass from in front of a group of men and give it to him. The men didn't protest either. The next thing he took a sip it was bitter. He drank very little but still was effected by the drink.

 

[MissHolmes]

While reading the comments over on the GMA site regarding these murders, I came across this post:

Look for the Walking man who was mentioned in Stephen Kings book "The Stand"...he is also called Randall Flagg and he wore a Smiley face button on his jacket..he was pure Evil ...his other name is "Legion"
Posted by:
whymustIbethechosenone 12:37 PM

I went to Wiki and looked up Randall Flagg, there is a pic of him wearing buttons on his jacket, one of them is a smiley face with a bullet hole at the top of his head. And a quote from Stephen King, the creator of Randall Flagg, said about him ".......somebody who was always on the outside looking in and hated people who had good fellowship and good conversation and friends."

This may be way off base, but wanted to share as far as the smiley face goes.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I thought their entire list wasn't public yet, just the Minna and WIsc cases? They also have linked cases in PA, NY etc but those names were not released from the detectives

Oh, OK! My mind isn't clicking today. You are right, of course. I wonder why they haven't released those? Interesting.

Welcome to WS, MsHolmes! We did throw that one around a bit on an earlier thread. While it is odd, I couldn't make a real connection from the story to the crimes in this case.

 

[SuziQ]

A question that I've been meaning to post and got sidetracked this weekend.

Do we know exactly why the ME changed the COD for Chris Jenkins from accidental to Homicide? It couldn't have been just because his parents knew in their hearts it was a homicide. What did the ME see when he took a second look, that he didn't see the first time around? What was there that made him change his mind?

 

[TheShadow]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,352960,00.html

At least 40 young men who drowned may have died by far more sinister means — serial killings at the hands of a national gang that revels in murdering young men and leaving smiley-face markings at the scene, a team of retired New York City police detectives and criminal justice investigators said Monday.
They believe the victims, including University of Minnesota student Chris Jenkins and Fordham University student Patrick McNeill, didn't accidentally drown but were actually killed by members of the so-called "Smiley Face Gang."

Man this is so insane!

 

[SuziQ]

Another interesting comment from the GMA article:

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/comments?type=story&id=4738621
superexcitedguy 12 - I was also a native of La Crosse and attended college there. I also worked in law enforcement for the county of LaX. I will back up your claims that many people speculate the involvement of an officer or somebody dressed up as one. I remember a few of my friends and I would go out after midnight and sit in our car....doing a "look out" at RiverSide and how we had many thoughts going through our "heads" of who could be doing this.
Posted by:
Oceangreen22 12:39 PM