Debate Thread for Caylee is alive

[wedavis]

I used to explore and be interested in the theories that Caylee is alive.

But then I just woke up one day and started to feel foolish for giving credence to what an established pathological liar is saying...

 

[momtective]

Here is my theory:
Casey knows the East-Side Rapist that raped two women in Blanchard Park over the last couple of years. He has been described as being between 20 and 25 years old. Her age group. This time, he killed his target. Casey was either there when it happened, or was called to help him get rid of the body. Nicole Ganguzza was killed on June 10, 2008. She has hair similar to Caylee's in length and color. The body was found behind a post office two miles from the park. Now, if the white car was used to move the body, decomp materials would be present. Now, say Casey, always on the lookout for a money-making scam, tries to blackmail the rapist/killer for her silence. He says sure, meet me at blah blah blah (the empty apartment? Blanchard Park? Casey has used both as the places she "dropped" Caylee off). Now, instead of giving Casey money, he swipes Caylee and says here's what you say and do and you forget about the murder or Caylee gets killed. Caylee is taken out of the area (I have been in contact with the person that sighted Caylee at Orlando Airport on July 2nd with an elderly woman.) This would explain all of the early crazy things that Cindy was saying about Casey leading the police close but afraid to be specific. Perhaps Casey was not wanting immunity for her role in Caylee's disappearance, but for her role in the Ganguzza murder/coverup. Have the police ran the dna of the hair sample through the general database? Have they compared it to Ganguzza? Have they looked at Casey's cell phone pings the night of the murder? Did she know anyone with priors for assault or rape? Did she know anyone connected with Ganguzza? Was she sleeping with her husband? She seemed to be sleeping with everyone else in Orlando!

Yes, yes, yes, I have posted along these same lines. I think there could very possibly be a connection to the NG murder. Perhaps not the body but rather the weapon in the trunk along with the chloroform rag. No evidence released in NG murder...no info other than death.

Just a note of caution...don't use full names in posts...don't wanna get the thread locked.

 

[reefshadow]

She has hair similar to Caylee's in length and color.

Now, if the white car was used to move the body, decomp materials would be present.

Have the police ran the dna of the hair sample through the general database? Have they compared it to Ganguzza?

Respectfully snipped.

1. The length and similarity of hair doesn't matter, the hair *IS* Caylees as confirmed by DNA testing.

2. Nicole G.'s body was found in situ, at the scene of her murder. There was no transporting of her body. If the body in the trunk was one other than Caylee's, it wasn't Nicoles, for sure. The murder scene was described as very gory and her body was not moved.

3. See # 1

Now on to your theory, MistyM. I really don't believe it. If someone gave you a script to follow in respect to the abduction of your baby would you throw it away? Wouldn't that be the most important document you have ever touched in your life? Then once LE *finally* got involved (as they are now) would you withhold essential information from them? Casey can't even give them names of real people. If it was "someone else's" body, who's was it? It would have to be someone local, someone connected to Casey in some manner, however remotely connected. Is anyone else besides Caylee missing? Nope.

Caylee is dead and with the angels. That's the one thing I'm *certain* of in this case. The decomp material in the trunk is no one other than hers.

Of course, JMO.

 

[momtective]

Is it possible Casey knew NG's murder?
Take a look at these pics and tell me if you think there could be a connection.
http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr260/momtective/m_4505bc0af63bd2a67ddab6846e829fae.jpg

http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr260/momtective/suspectinNicoleGsmurder.jpg

 

[SusanNV]

Respectfully snipped.

1. The length and similarity of hair doesn't matter, the hair *IS* Caylees as confirmed by DNA testing.

2. Nicole G.'s body was found in situ, at the scene of her murder. There was no transporting of her body. If the body in the trunk was one other than Caylee's, it wasn't Nicoles, for sure. The murder scene was described as very gory and her body was not moved.

3. See # 1

Now on to your theory, MistyM. I really don't believe it. If someone gave you a script to follow in respect to the abduction of your baby would you throw it away? Wouldn't that be the most important document you have ever touched in your life? Then once LE *finally* got involved (as they are now) would you withhold essential information from them? Casey can't even give them names of real people. If it was "someone else's" body, who's was it? It would have to be someone local, someone connected to Casey in some manner, however remotely connected. Is anyone else besides Caylee missing? Nope.

Caylee is dead and with the angels. That's the one thing I'm *certain* of in this case. The decomp material in the trunk is no one other than hers.

Of course, JMO.

From www.amc.com:
"Her body was found behind a post office about two miles from the park where she went missing, and police sources said it appeared that someone had tried to conceal her body. " So her body was not found in situ

From the Orlando Sentinel: "A press conference was held on Thursday in which Captain Angelo L. Nieves of the Orange County Sheriff's Office was very evasive when he was questioned about the DNA test results. Nieves seemed to suggest that the results were still being evaluated and were in the preliminary stages." There has not been anything definitive released on the DNA results, even though they are obviously back.

 

[Seranade]

We may not be able to verify if it was 25k or 45k...But really, does it make a difference?

I'm not quibbling over the amount, but the fact that Casey seems to have turned into a thief right around the time of Caylee went missing, as we can find no evidence that she was stealing before. The conversation had to do with whether she left a shady "job" around that time.

Hi Everyone,

~respectfully snipped~
Of the 10 subjects (9 cadavers & 1 live control subject) 6 of them presented normal with yellow-banding (including the LIVE control) and 4 presented with hard keratin point, root-banding and brush like ends. The 9 cadavers were PMI from 8 days to 633 days... the only cadavers with actual "ROOT-BANDING" had been deceased for 89 to 633 days.

This science would strongly suggest they either don't have Caylee's hair with root-banding or they found forensic evidence that a close to 90 day old cadaver had been in her car at some point....

Thank you! So interesting and extremely relevant.

From www.amc.com:
"Her body was found behind a post office about two miles from the park where she went missing, and police sources said it appeared that someone had tried to conceal her body. " So her body was not found in situ

From the Orlando Sentinel: "A press conference was held on Thursday in which Captain Angelo L. Nieves of the Orange County Sheriff's Office was very evasive when he was questioned about the DNA test results. Nieves seemed to suggest that the results were still being evaluated and were in the preliminary stages." There has not been anything definitive released on the DNA results, even though they are obviously back.

Thank you, I keep trying to point this out to no avail. Does anyone think a perp would drag a victim two miles from her original location? It doesn't make sense. It almost seems as though she might have been kidnapped from the park, taken to another location to be assaulted and killed, and then transported back to the dump site.

 

[TURBOTHINK]

I'm not quibbling over the amount, but the fact that Casey seems to have turned into a thief right around the time of Caylee went missing, as we can find no evidence that she was stealing before. The conversation had to do with whether she left a shady "job" around that time.

Thank you, I keep trying to point this out to no avail. Does anyone think a perp would drag a victim two miles from her original location? It doesn't make sense. It almost seems as though she might have been kidnapped from the park, taken to another location to be assaulted and killed, and then transported back to the dump site.

I can see a perp doing all that just to get to rape and kill someone. Not gonna happen. That girl was a victim of wrong place, wrong time, and no amount of trying to tie Casey's car into it is going to work.

Not to say Casey could not been involved because meth addicts and crack addicts kill everyday to get money. Women addicts trade their kids to their dealers for sex to get their drugs. It is not a stretch to be able to believe Casey was capable of any and all of these, because I do believe she was into meth or crack. (just a feeling)

The one thing all these theories leave out is the DNA was Caylee's and there were band rings on her hair so she is DEAD and she WAS in that trunk DEAD.

 

[Seranade]

I can see a perp doing all that just to get to rape and kill someone. Not gonna happen. That girl was a victim of wrong place, wrong time, and no amount of trying to tie Casey's car into it is going to work.

Not to say Casey could not been involved because meth addicts and crack addicts kill everyday to get money. Women addicts trade their kids to their dealers for sex to get their drugs. It is not a stretch to be able to believe Casey was capable of any and all of these, because I do believe she was into meth or crack. (just a feeling)

The one thing all these theories leave out is the DNA was Caylee's and there were band rings on her hair so she is DEAD and she WAS in that trunk DEAD.

I didn't say NG wasn't a victim of wrong place, wrong time. But you can't say for certain that a perp would drag a victim two miles from the original location. Think of how far two miles really is. Think of dragging a person along two miles of flat, straight highway-how much more difficult would it be to drag a person that far through a wooded area?

And until I hear a straightforward, non parsed, unequivocal, flat out OFFICIAL STATEMENT from a press room podium as opposed to a twisty worded off the cuff interview held outside on a sidewalk, I will assume LE is trying for some reason to create "impressions" about the forensics.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Is it possible Casey knew NG's murder?
Take a look at these pics and tell me if you think there could be a connection.

I pulled the article up earlier, but WS site messed up when I posted. They cleared two for certain and I was told they cleared all four people on those sketches. (I have not confirmed the other two, however.)

We should be careful about associating people who happen to appear on myspace directly to a murder tho.

 

[JustInCase]

:thumb::applause::toast:

I didn't say NG wasn't a victim of wrong place, wrong time. But you can't say for certain that a perp would drag a victim two miles from the original location. Think of how far two miles really is. Think of dragging a person along two miles of flat, straight highway-how much more difficult would it be to drag a person that far through a wooded area?

And until I hear a straightforward, non parsed, unequivocal, flat out OFFICIAL STATEMENT from a press room podium as opposed to a twisty worded off the cuff interview held outside on a sidewalk, I will assume LE is trying for some reason to create "impressions" about the forensics.

I agree

 

[Gma Kat]

I used to explore and be interested in the theories that Caylee is alive.

But then I just woke up one day and started to feel foolish for giving credence to what an established pathological liar is saying...

You took the words right out of my mouth....

 

[reefshadow]

From www.amc.com:
"Her body was found behind a post office about two miles from the park where she went missing, and police sources said it appeared that someone had tried to conceal her body. " So her body was not found in situ

From the Orlando Sentinel: "A press conference was held on Thursday in which Captain Angelo L. Nieves of the Orange County Sheriff's Office was very evasive when he was questioned about the DNA test results. Nieves seemed to suggest that the results were still being evaluated and were in the preliminary stages." There has not been anything definitive released on the DNA results, even though they are obviously back.

Ok... Go to this webpage and scroll down to the comments. Someone put an area map of the site of the murder.

http://www.dreamindemon.com/2008/06/11/nicole-ganguzza-is-missing/

The post office was 2 miles away from her car, not from the park. The post office is bordered by running trails on both sides, within yards of the trails. Nicole was dragged off one of these trails and murdered and probably raped.

Of course they tried to conceal the body, they probably just covered her with brush. She was quickly and easily found anyway, because she wasn't far from the running trail.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/Story?id=5339539&page=1

-"The body was found about 100 yards from a running trail."

A strong, motivated man could easily overpower a woman dragging her this distance into the brush.

What I have heard unofficially is that the crime scene was gory, and detectives believe she was killed in situ. See story for a Sgt's statement about in situ:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...cf-jogger-slain-061208,0,7295335.story?page=1

Several news stories indicate that her body was abraded and so will be the perps. Was Casey all abraded in any of her pics from June?

On to Casey. I cannot see any possible connection here, no matter how tenuous. A couple points:

1. Nicole was found in less than 24 hours. You don't get rotting flesh and hair in a trunk w/in 24 hours, and NO police statement has indicated a vehicle was involved in Nicole's abduction.

2. The hair has been *proven* through DNA analysis to be Caylees.

So you tell me. NG's body was still fresh when found. How many bodies do you think Casey has been lugging around? There was *definately* a rotting body in her trunk at some point. It wasn't NG's.

Now that has been cleared up, how do you then connect NG and Casey?

 

[reefshadow]

I didn't say NG wasn't a victim of wrong place, wrong time. But you can't say for certain that a perp would drag a victim two miles from the original location. Think of how far two miles really is. Think of dragging a person along two miles of flat, straight highway-how much more difficult would it be to drag a person that far through a wooded area?

And until I hear a straightforward, non parsed, unequivocal, flat out OFFICIAL STATEMENT from a press room podium as opposed to a twisty worded off the cuff interview held outside on a sidewalk, I will assume LE is trying for some reason to create "impressions" about the forensics.

The "original location" was her car, and a regular jogger has no problem going 2 miles. Check out the map in the link I posted.

 

[Ladytazz]

"I'm not quibbling over the amount, but the fact that Casey seems to have turned into a thief right around the time of Caylee went missing, as we can find no evidence that she was stealing before. The conversation had to do with whether she left a shady "job" around that time."

I think she stole from her grandmother before that time since that is what the supposedly were fighting about father's day weekend. And I think she was using her mother's credit card before that since she had to go into her IRA to pay that off.

 

[SusanNV]

Ok... Go to this webpage and scroll down to the comments. Someone put an area map of the site of the murder.

http://www.dreamindemon.com/2008/06/11/nicole-ganguzza-is-missing/

The post office was 2 miles away from her car, not from the park. The post office is bordered by running trails on both sides, within yards of the trails. Nicole was dragged off one of these trails and murdered and probably raped.

Of course they tried to conceal the body, they probably just covered her with brush. She was quickly and easily found anyway, because she wasn't far from the running trail.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/Story?id=5339539&page=1

-"The body was found about 100 yards from a running trail."

A strong, motivated man could easily overpower a woman dragging her this distance into the brush.

What I have heard unofficially is that the crime scene was gory, and detectives believe she was killed in situ. See story for a Sgt's statement about in situ:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...cf-jogger-slain-061208,0,7295335.story?page=1

Several news stories indicate that her body was abraded and so will be the perps. Was Casey all abraded in any of her pics from June?

On to Casey. I cannot see any possible connection here, no matter how tenuous. A couple points:

1. Nicole was found in less than 24 hours. You don't get rotting flesh and hair in a trunk w/in 24 hours, and NO police statement has indicated a vehicle was involved in Nicole's abduction.

2. The hair has been *proven* through DNA analysis to be Caylees.

So you tell me. NG's body was still fresh when found. How many bodies do you think Casey has been lugging around? There was *definately* a rotting body in her trunk at some point. It wasn't NG's.

Now that has been cleared up, how do you then connect NG and Casey?

Actually, a dead body begins the decomposition process about 4 minutes after death. The University of Tennessee body farm has determined that in takes a maximum of 30 hours for decomp liquids to pool on the skin in 73 F with less than 50% humidity. This time decreases exponentially with the 90 F temps during the week of June 10th in Orlando. I am not sure of the humidity that night, but having lived in Boca Raton in the past, I am sure it was higher than 50%. Forgive me for not being more abreast of the NG details, but if there were head wounds, the release of liquids would be even quicker as the brain is one of the first substances to putrify in the human body. Granted the time is tight, but not impossible.

As for the DNA analysis of the hair sample. Has there been any official word from the OCSD that the dna matched Caylee? I could not find anything on their media release page except this statement from 8-27-08: "As has been our policy throughout this investigation we will not discuss the investigative details pertaining to the Caylee Anthony case to include the results of any evidence submitted for laboratory analysis.

Preserving the integrity of the investigative details of a case of this magnitude is paramount to its successful conclusion. We are unable to comment any further on information that has recently surfaced regarding the Caylee Anthony investigation. Any future returns in regards to evidence or submissions pertaining to this case will remain privileged or exempt unless the release of such information will be beneficial to the investigation or if it becomes a matter of public record in a legal proceeding."

 

[Lovejac]

I used to explore and be interested in the theories that Caylee is alive.

But then I just woke up one day and started to feel foolish for giving credence to what an established pathological liar is saying...[/QUOTE]

I bolded above

This is the best post of the month!!!! IMO:clap:

 

[SusanNV]

I used to explore and be interested in the theories that Caylee is alive.

But then I just woke up one day and started to feel foolish for giving credence to what an established pathological liar is saying...[/QUOTE]

I bolded above

This is the best post of the month!!!! IMO:clap:

Actually, I, nor I believe any of the Caylee is alive supporters, are believing what Casey is saying. But even in the fantasy world of a pathological liar, reality is peppered in. Sometimes they don't even know the difference between their lies and the truth, but if you read between the lines of their lies, bits of reality can be found.

 

[reefshadow]

Actually, a dead body begins the decomposition process about 4 minutes after death. The University of Tennessee body farm has determined that in takes a maximum of 30 hours for decomp liquids to pool on the skin in 73 F with less than 50% humidity. This time decreases exponentially with the 90 F temps during the week of June 10th in Orlando. I am not sure of the humidity that night, but having lived in Boca Raton in the past, I am sure it was higher than 50%. Forgive me for not being more abreast of the NG details, but if there were head wounds, the release of liquids would be even quicker as the brain is one of the first substances to putrify in the human body. Granted the time is tight, but not impossible.

As for the DNA analysis of the hair sample. Has there been any official word from the OCSD that the dna matched Caylee? I could not find anything on their media release page except this statement from 8-27-08: "As has been our policy throughout this investigation we will not discuss the investigative details pertaining to the Caylee Anthony case to include the results of any evidence submitted for laboratory analysis.

Preserving the integrity of the investigative details of a case of this magnitude is paramount to its successful conclusion. We are unable to comment any further on information that has recently surfaced regarding the Caylee Anthony investigation. Any future returns in regards to evidence or submissions pertaining to this case will remain privileged or exempt unless the release of such information will be beneficial to the investigation or if it becomes a matter of public record in a legal proceeding."

Yes, it is true that we have very few certain details of NG's death. What is certain is that she was dead for 24 hours or less before being found. We also have police statements that she was slain where she was found, and rumours of the gory scene additionally support this. If you looked at the map it is a mistake to say she was 2 miles from the park, she was two miles from her car right off of the running trail. It is also indisputable that there are at least 2 rapists at work in the Orlando area. With all of this certainty, I really don't understand the preference of such a farfetched connection to the Caylee case.

Air samples taken from Casey's trunk and tested at TBF indicated very high levels of cadaverine and putrescene, both byproducts of *advanced* decomposition. The amounts would not be consistent with a body in a trunk overnight (when it is cooler) for less than 24 hours. She was most likely killed the same evening she went jogging, and she left for the park at 5:45.
If we are to believe that she was in Casey's trunk it would be logical to assume they drug her into the bushes and covered her with brush in the cool and cover of the night instead of in broad daylight in a busy park the next day. That would cut her "trunk time" down to less than 12 hours, and probably more like 8 (or less). You just don't get a juicy decaying corpse in 12 hours. That trunk was rank, could even be smelled inside the car itself as per statements by CA.

Yes you are correct in stating that most of the information we have on the forensic testing in regards to Caylee is media leaks, but the police and public officials have done nothing to quell these rumours, despite the obvious fears of prejudicing the jury pool. Neither are the Anthony's. I am assuming they are true.

 

[impatientredhead]

Yes, it is true that we have very few certain details of NG's death. What is certain is that she was dead for 24 hours or less before being found. We also have police statements that she was slain where she was found, and rumours of the gory scene additionally support this. If you looked at the map it is a mistake to say she was 2 miles from the park, she was two miles from her car right off of the running trail. It is also indisputable that there are at least 2 rapists at work in the Orlando area. With all of this certainty, I really don't understand the preference of such a farfetched connection to the Caylee case.

Air samples taken from Casey's trunk and tested at TBF indicated very high levels of cadaverine and putrescene, both byproducts of *advanced* decomposition. The amounts would not be consistent with a body in a trunk overnight (when it is cooler) for less than 24 hours. She was most likely killed the same evening she went jogging, and she left for the park at 5:45.
If we are to believe that she was in Casey's trunk it would be logical to assume they drug her into the bushes and covered her with brush in the cool and cover of the night instead of in broad daylight in a busy park the next day. That would cut her "trunk time" down to less than 12 hours, and probably more like 8 (or less). You just don't get a juicy decaying corpse in 12 hours. That trunk was rank, could even be smelled inside the car itself as per statements by CA.

Yes you are correct in stating that most of the information we have on the forensic testing in regards to Caylee is media leaks, but the police and public officials have done nothing to quell these rumours, despite the obvious fears of prejudicing the jury pool. Neither are the Anthony's. I am assuming they are true.

This forensic information is not correct. We need to make a forensic thread so we don't have to keep going back for the same links over and over again. Putriscene and cadaverine are not what the gas that they are testing for, they are byproducts of all animal decompostion, not limited to humans and putriscene can be found in live people with infections of various sorts. Those are not the gases that the dogs pick up either. The human body releases over 300 gases during decomposition, the bodyfarm has narrowed it down to 30 that they test for the presence of.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

There just isn't any connection to this murder and Caylee's disappearance. NG was murdered on June 10th. Caylee did not go missing until June 15th. There was no known smell of decomp in her car until possibly around June 24th and definitely by July 15th when the car was then picked up by GA and CA which means it was present June 27th. No one placed an unknown body in that car. Caylee is the one missing and given the timeframe, logic says she was in the trunk. Forensics say she was in the trunk.

LE can prove that Caylee is missing.
LE can prove there was decomp in the vehicle.
LE can prove it was Caylee's hair and DNA in the trunk where the decomp was found.
LE can and will prove it was Caylee in the trunk when all the tests results are released.

Grasping at straws will not solve this case. The only purpose it serves is to aid the defense in the quest to raise reasonable doubt and to further throw up roadblocks to find this child. It is in Casey's best interest NOT to find Caylee. She will continue her charade at all cost to prevent it.

People continue to support Casey's lies. I guess Susan Smith, Melinda Duckett, and other mothers who have killed their children and lied about it have their supporters, too...but for the life of me...I cannot understand why.