Decomp smell **REVISIT**

[Chezhire]

Very possible....But, I see just George being involved in the disposal. The reason for his quietness?..Maybe his reason for pointing out the gas cans on June 24th...("Caylee was not in car")

Amberjack - I also think this presently seems the most plausible reason for the gas cans story.

 

[SelmaClue]

I'm sure this has been gone over before, but to clarify, was the pizza uneaten when it was discovered?

Oh boy, we are SusieClue and SelmaClue. If I had seen your screen name before I chose mine, I'd have made up a different one. Apologies!

Pizza: Are you asking if it's been reported that the alleged pizza was partially eaten?

S

 

[Chezhire]

I just heard Mark F tell Megan on Fox News that he had seen Caseys phone records via Lee and that a pizza was ordered from her phone after June 16. He didnt say from where and what the exact date was, but sometime right after the 16th.

Does anyone really believe that Lee would share copies of phone records with anyone, even in an effort to corroborate Cindy's PIZZA story? seems he'd know better than to do that without first talking to Casey's 3 lawyers...whom one would expect would never agree with/bless the sharing of anything with MF...???

 

[SelmaClue]

Does anyone really believe that Lee would share copies of phone records with anyone, even in an effort to corroborate Cindy's PIZZA story? seems he'd know better than to do that without first talking to Casey's 3 lawyers...whom one would expect would never agree with/bless the sharing of anything with MF...???

Yes, I believe Lee would share this info publicly if it corroborates Cindy's pizza story. I believe he'd want a bit of info out here that shows people there's something that hasn't been a lie, if he could.
S

 

[SusieClue]

Oh boy, we are SusieClue and SelmaClue. If I had seen your screen name before I chose mine, I'd have made up a different one. Apologies!

Pizza: Are you asking if it's been reported that the alleged pizza was partially eaten?

S

Oh I could care less...the more clues the better! :crazy:
Yes, I was wondering if the pizza was eaten or just a full pizza.
thanks.

 

[dee10134]

I think their story of the pizza being the cause of the cadaver dog hit and the stench is bologna. There is NO way a rotten pizza would make a cadaver dog hit.

A decomposing body releases very distinct chemicals as it breaks down, namely putriscene and cadeverine, which as far as I know would not be created during the break down of a rotten pizza! They have created synthetic putriscene and cadaverine, which is used to train the cadaver dogs. If rotten pizza and decomposing bodies smell the same to dogs, wouldn't it just be cheaper to use rotten pizza to train the dogs than to create synthetic putriscene and cadaverine??

So if the pizza isn't the cause of the putriscene and/or cadaverine smell, then we all know what was the cause and it had to have been a human body.

 

[Thinking_Out_Loud]

Hello All,

This is my first time posting at Websleuths. I have been lurking for a while now, and was just accepted into your community. Out of all the different forums that discuss the Caylee Marie Anthony case, I think you all here at websleuths' are the most informed and informative.

I have some thoughts on the body decomposition and cadaver dog theory that I would like to throw out there.

There are many things that I have thought about this case. Apparently, when they train dogs, they train them with human hair, blood, bones, nails, and stuff like that. Sometimes, they do not have a human body to train them with, so they will use a bottle of chemicals that have been produced to smell like the chemicals produced by a decomposing human body.

I, also, noticed that people have been saying that a cadaver dog can distinguish between a human decomposing body and an animal. This is true, with the exception of pigs. Pigs are more chemically related to humans than any other animal. I remembered this from Biology in college. It was weird to me then, and its still weird to me now. At any rate, when a pig decomposes or lives, they still remain chemically linked to humans. Thus, dog trainers will often use pig remains instead of human remains. It is just easier to get their hands on a dead pig sometimes. After thinking about this, I googled it and found this amazing article about a dog named Shep and his trainer that would go looking for bodies. I would highly recommend reading it. It talks about the accuracy of the dogs.

I think it is possible that a dog might hit on a spot where pizza is if the pizza contains canadian bacon, sausage, or pepperoni. I tried to find out if the chemical composition would change after the meat was cured and seasoned, but I do not know at this point.

Also, if she had used feminine hygeine products, or hair clippings in her trunk, then the dog would hit on it.

As far as the odor, I would think that a nurse would be able to distinguish between the scents of death and old pizza. I don't know, there might be some strange smell manufactured by the maggots when the defacate pork. That might smell to high heaven.

In addition, I just wanted to note that I have had maggots on things that were not dead. A few weeks ago, I found all these maggots underneath my cat's water bowl. It was disgusting and I don't know what they were feeding on. There was nothing there except a piece of newspaper.

Thanks for your time. I am looking forward to your thoughts.

P.S. here's the link to that site I was talking about.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/s...uth-behind-the-crimescene-canines-835047.html

 

[Twoapennything]

Hello everyone -- first post here from a long time lurker.

When I was ten, our family took a two week vacation. Probably during the first couple of days we were gone, our housesitter died in our home. When we came home, the smell of decomposition was unbelievable. The smell of a decomposing human body is unique and distinctive and like nothing else.

We had to move out of the house for a month while disaster services completed a full restoration, which included carpet and drywall replacement and disinfection with extremely strong, very specific chemicals. Everything in the house had to be cleaned; we lost a lot of our belongings, as the smell of death permeated objects that could not be cleaned or salvaged. To say it was vile is an understatement. It was an extremely traumatic event for our family.

The reason I'm telling this story is that even years later, occasionally we would catch a feint whiff of decomposition. It obviously wasn't as strong or new as when the incident first happened, but it was, like I said, a very distinctive smell. It finally stopped, but it just goes to show that the gases and chemicals that a decomposing body produces is just insane!

If a body were left in a car long enough to decompose to the point of smelling, I personally would have no doubt that the smell could linger in the car long after the body itself was removed. Yes, it's that strong and permeating!

 

[SelmaClue]

Hello everyone -- first post here from a long time lurker.

When I was ten, our family took a two week vacation. Probably during the first couple of days we were gone, our housesitter died in our home.

Hi Twoapennything! Thanks for your icky story!
I've never smelled decomp (thankfully) so I think you drove the point home for me!

Welcome aboard!
S

 

[MarleneM]

I think it is possible that a dog might hit on a spot where pizza is if the pizza contains canadian bacon, sausage, or pepperoni.

As far as the odor...there might be some strange smell manufactured by the maggots when the defacate pork. That might smell to high heaven.

Before I lose sight of facts I'm familiar with through personal experience by getting caught up in what-if's like these, let me testify here that I know what a pepperoni, ham, beef, and cheese pizza smells like after being left to harden and decompose in a car, and (at the risk of sounding disgusting) it's nowhere near the smell of putrid death.

Think about the days in your life you've come across a piece of cooked pizza in the trash. It's hard as a rock because of the stale crust and hardened cheese. Even an uncooked pizza is put together with precooked meat that doesn't turn rancid because most of it is cured. And anyone who bakes knows what dough smells like after it goes bad. Again, nothing like the distinct scent of death that we all can identify when we smell a dead animal.

Speaking only to Cindy Anthony's request for us to conduct "the Pizza Experiment": It's just insulting to the life experiences of any typical adult (certainly a domestic mother) that rotten food can be mistaken for a decomposing body. Like none of us have ever smelled rotten food before...

 

[impatientredhead]

I think their story of the pizza being the cause of the cadaver dog hit and the stench is bologna. There is NO way a rotten pizza would make a cadaver dog hit.

A decomposing body releases very distinct chemicals as it breaks down, namely putriscene and cadeverine, which as far as I know would not be created during the break down of a rotten pizza! They have created synthetic putriscene and cadaverine, which is used to train the cadaver dogs. If rotten pizza and decomposing bodies smell the same to dogs, wouldn't it just be cheaper to use rotten pizza to train the dogs than to create synthetic putriscene and cadaverine??

So if the pizza isn't the cause of the putriscene and/or cadaverine smell, then we all know what was the cause and it had to have been a human body.

Just clarifying on this, it is not actually the cadaverine or putriscene that the dogs are hitting on. All animals decomposing produce these chemicals. They can also exisit in much smaller quantities in live animals/people.

http://boards.webmd.com/webx?THDX@@.59ac841d!thdchild=.59ac841d A couple of examples, but it is also present in septic patients, and many other situations.

When they first started using cadaver dogs they were not sure what they smelling that was different from other animals, but they have identified over 400 chemicals released by a decaying body.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decomposition#Animal_decomposition- in animal decomposition section click on putrification.

 

[Amberjack]

Amberjack - I also think this presently seems the most plausible reason for the gas cans story.

Is George covering for Casey by saying he didn't "see" Caylee in the trunk?
The gas cans would have covered for a bundled Caylee
He says CASEY opened the trunk
Who took out the wedge? I think Casey......

 

[Thinking_Out_Loud]

Before I lose sight of facts I'm familiar with through personal experience by getting caught up in what-if's like these, let me testify here that I know what a pepperoni, ham, beef, and cheese pizza smells like after being left to harden and decompose in a car, and (at the risk of sounding disgusting) it's nowhere near the smell of putrid death.

Think about the days in your life you've come across a piece of cooked pizza in the trash. It's hard as a rock because of the stale crust and hardened cheese. Even an uncooked pizza is put together with precooked meat that doesn't turn rancid because most of it is cured. And anyone who bakes knows what dough smells like after it goes bad. Again, nothing like the distinct scent of death that we all can identify when we smell a dead animal.

Speaking only to Cindy Anthony's request for us to conduct "the Pizza Experiment": It's just insulting to the life experiences of any typical adult (certainly a domestic mother) that rotten food can be mistaken for a decomposing body. Like none of us have ever smelled rotten food before...

I just want to clarify that I do not think that I said that the smell was pizza. I said that a cadaver dog might detect the pork because they are trained on decomposing pigs. Actually, if we were talking hypothetically I would have blamed the smell on an unknown source. Some other dead thing that might have been in the car at some point. I have friends that put dead things in their other friends' cars and apartments as pranks. Apparently, they think it is funny when someone gets stinked out and cannot find it because it is in an air conditioner vent or something. It is what some young people do. I am a college student at UCF in Orlando. I live like a college student too, that is to say that I like to take out my trash about once a month. It stinks sometimes but does not smell like anything died. We also have a huge dumpster that smells up the whole neighborhood because it sits out there filled with garbage for about one week with the hot florida sun beating down on it. Again, doesn't smell like anything died. It is just rancid, and that is all. I have had maggots on things in my home too. The media has had some "experts" say that maggots will ONLY get on decaying flesh. Well, from personal experience that is not true. I have had them get on newspaper before.

For many weeks, I thought this girl had murdered her child because of the smell in the car, and the cadaver dogs' alerts; however, after extensive research, I cannot conclude that at all. I think that the lab results will let us know and that is that. Speculation does not always get us anywhere.

 

[dee10134]

I just want to clarify that I do not think that I said that the smell was pizza. I said that a cadaver dog might detect the pork because they are trained on decomposing pigs. Actually, if we were talking hypothetically I would have blamed the smell on an unknown source. Some other dead thing that might have been in the car at some point.

[snip]

For many weeks, I thought this girl had murdered her child because of the smell in the car, and the cadaver dogs' alerts; however, after extensive research, I cannot conclude that at all. I think that the lab results will let us know and that is that. Speculation does not always get us anywhere.

I don't think the smell was pizza either. As far as I understand, most pepperoni has been cured by salt and/or smoking the meat. Sausage is generally placed on the pizza raw, but cooked in the oven.

Cured and cooked meat does not decompose at the same rate or the same way that fresh pig flesh does. The sausage and pepperoni on a pizza would have been cooked, which I believe is an entirely different type of decomposition; more of a rancid, sour smell than a "dead body smell."

You're completely right about the maggots. Just because there were maggots, doesn't necessarily mean there was a body there. I know for a fact that maggots will be anywhere there is a food source and moisture, not necessarily on a meat source either.

With that said, I have no doubts in my mind that the cadaver dogs hit on the smell of HUMAN decomposition in Casey Anthony's trunk. The dogs are not trained to hit on other dead animals (besides pigs, maybe, but that all depends on the way the dog was trained). I guess the DNA test will be key to this aspect of the investigation.

 

[CASuzk]

I was thinking about the car last night also and then I remembered something, my good friend J's car.
I love J, she's funny and generous. We make an odd pair, she is 4'11", I'm 5'11", she is Asian, I'm blond with freckles. She can eat two big Macs, biggie fries, giant glup and still weigh 89 lbs; me, I can gain weight on a kid's meal. We have a great time together but I can't stand riding in her van! She mucks it out maybe twice a year; yes, mucks

She has four kids and when she was driving them all around, the car was a health hazard. Half eaten hamburgers spilled soda, pizza boxes with half a pizza, dirty underwear. balled up socks, used tissues and napkins, fruit, you name it, it was there. I have helped her take out two full trash bags of stuff that needed to be thrown away and there was sill at least two loads of laundry in the car.
The point of this is that it did smell in her car, I would ride like a dog, with my head out the window. But...it never smelled like a dead but once living thing. We live in a humid area and she parked the car in the sun. One time, I saw her same model car in a parking lot and to be sure that it was her car, I smelled the car and yes, the odor was there even with the windows up and car locked! It smelled like a trash can but not a dead body.

 

[Thinking_Out_Loud]

Does anyone hear know what a dead human body smells like? If so, could you please ellaborate? If you could, please compare it to another smell. This way some of us could know for this case.

I was walking my dog around my apartment complex yesterday morning, and I smelled this horrible rotten scent. I almost vomited, and my dog was smelling around the place like crazy. She wanted to go and investigate it, but I pulled her away. The smell was coming from around this one bottom floor apartment where its tenant had just opened and closed her sliding door. I thought maybe something could have died outside, but when I walked my dog back over there two hours later, the smell was gone. I think maybe it came from inside the apartment. That tenant must be a horrible caretaker if her apartment had such a putrid smell! After reading about how indescribable a dead body stinks, I thought maybe she has a dead body in there!

 

[impatientredhead]

I just want to clarify that I do not think that I said that the smell was pizza. I said that a cadaver dog might detect the pork because they are trained on decomposing pigs. Actually, if we were talking hypothetically I would have blamed the smell on an unknown source. Some other dead thing that might have been in the car at some point. I have friends that put dead things in their other friends' cars and apartments as pranks. Apparently, they think it is funny when someone gets stinked out and cannot find it because it is in an air conditioner vent or something. It is what some young people do. I am a college student at UCF in Orlando. I live like a college student too, that is to say that I like to take out my trash about once a month. It stinks sometimes but does not smell like anything died. We also have a huge dumpster that smells up the whole neighborhood because it sits out there filled with garbage for about one week with the hot florida sun beating down on it. Again, doesn't smell like anything died. It is just rancid, and that is all. I have had maggots on things in my home too. The media has had some "experts" say that maggots will ONLY get on decaying flesh. Well, from personal experience that is not true. I have had them get on newspaper before.

For many weeks, I thought this girl had murdered her child because of the smell in the car, and the cadaver dogs' alerts; however, after extensive research, I cannot conclude that at all. I think that the lab results will let us know and that is that. Speculation does not always get us anywhere.

I didn't think or mean to imply that you thought it was pizza. I just used yours as a jumping off point, but probably should have posted without a quote.

I do believe solidly in the dogs and their accuracy. I was just commenting on the chemicals they are indicating for.

 

[wallflower67]

Hello everyone -- first post here from a long time lurker.

When I was ten, our family took a two week vacation. Probably during the first couple of days we were gone, our housesitter died in our home. When we came home, the smell of decomposition was unbelievable. The smell of a decomposing human body is unique and distinctive and like nothing else.

We had to move out of the house for a month while disaster services completed a full restoration, which included carpet and drywall replacement and disinfection with extremely strong, very specific chemicals. Everything in the house had to be cleaned; we lost a lot of our belongings, as the smell of death permeated objects that could not be cleaned or salvaged. To say it was vile is an understatement. It was an extremely traumatic event for our family.

The reason I'm telling this story is that even years later, occasionally we would catch a feint whiff of decomposition. It obviously wasn't as strong or new as when the incident first happened, but it was, like I said, a very distinctive smell. It finally stopped, but it just goes to show that the gases and chemicals that a decomposing body produces is just insane!

If a body were left in a car long enough to decompose to the point of smelling, I personally would have no doubt that the smell could linger in the car long after the body itself was removed. Yes, it's that strong and permeating!

How horrible for you and your family! I would be freaked to move back into that house!

I can't remember if I posted this on this thread or not (and I'm too lazy to read back a few pages), but my high school bf and his dad worked for a towing company. They towed a car that a man had committed suicide in. It was summer and he had been in the car for 2 or 3 days. The people in the tow truck could smell it even with their windows up and the car's windows up. They had to put that car as far back in the impound lot as possible...it smelled that bad as soon as you got on the lot.

I, personally, did not choose to go check out the smell. I just know they could smell that thing hundreds of feet away.

 

[CASuzk]

Dead things smell, even my garage stunk from one small dead mouse. I don't even know how to describe it but you don't forget that smell, it's more stinky and in your mouth and nose than things like dog poop.
If the smell at the neighbor's house went away, she was probably cooking something. Menudo, Haggis, Chitin's, there are just some foods that don't smell good cooking.

One local store sells sheep heads around Easter, no I don't know why; but there they are, no skin but with the eyeballs and teeth in the meat department. Freaky as all get out. Can't imagine what that smells like cooking.

 

[my2cents]

Does anyone hear know what a dead human body smells like? If so, could you please ellaborate? If you could, please compare it to another smell. This way some of us could know for this case.

When I was in college, I lived in a complex in one of those 2 story type condos. They are narrow so the front doors are closer to each other than in a normal complex. They guy 4 doors down died in his apartment and was there 4 days before he was found. I could smell it when I walked outside my front door (maybe 60 feet down from his). It was TERRIBLE. There is no other smell that it comes close to comparing too. You just KNOW what it is and you KNOW its dead.

The family took all his stuff and threw it away because the smell was embedded in everything. The complex went in had a repair truck out there for a week doing painting and sheet-rock and carpet. This was not the norm at this complex, so the smell must have been embedded.

The only thing that I can think of that is even a fraction of the stench is a dead animal. If you have animals that have ever brought you a dead animal that they found (mine are notorious for doing this!) then imagine that smell multiplied by 1,000. I can't describe it, but it embeds in your nostrils and in your throat and it sticks there for a while.

It's very distinct. Once you smell it, you KNOW what it is.