Decomp smell **REVISIT**

[Thinking_Out_Loud]

When I was in college, I lived in a complex in one of those 2 story type condos. They are narrow so the front doors are closer to each other than in a normal complex. They guy 4 doors down died in his apartment and was there 4 days before he was found. I could smell it when I walked outside my front door (maybe 60 feet down from his). It was TERRIBLE. There is no other smell that it comes close to comparing too. You just KNOW what it is and you KNOW its dead.

The family took all his stuff and threw it away because the smell was embedded in everything. The complex went in had a repair truck out there for a week doing painting and sheet-rock and carpet. This was not the norm at this complex, so the smell must have been embedded.

The only thing that I can think of that is even a fraction of the stench is a dead animal. If you have animals that have ever brought you a dead animal that they found (mine are notorious for doing this!) then imagine that smell multiplied by 1,000. I can't describe it, but it embeds in your nostrils and in your throat and it sticks there for a while.

It's very distinct. Once you smell it, you KNOW what it is.

Ew..

I used to live in a house, and my neighbor died. He had been in there a few days before anyone found him, and I did not smell anything. Your description makes me realize how fortunate I was not to have smelled that!

Someone on another forum had compared the smell to a rancid steak. Another compared the smell to an abandoned fish market. These, of course, are two distinct smells. It confused me. I have smelled dead animals before and I could definitely tell that is not pizza; however, a dead squirrel smells like a dead cat, or a dead dog, or a dead chicken, or a dead raccoon. It seems to me that something could have crawled up under the car and died.

I wish we knew what those test results were on the car...

 

[krimekat]

So, the car was retrieved from tow lot by George Anthony on 15 Jul while Cindy picks up Casey from TonEs per Amy, makes 911 #1 call & 911 #2 call, returns home, smells the car & makes call #3?

 

[wallflower67]

Ew..

I used to live in a house, and my neighbor died. He had been in there a few days before anyone found him, and I did not smell anything. Your description makes me realize how fortunate I was not to have smelled that!

Someone on another forum had compared the smell to a rancid steak. Another compared the smell to an abandoned fish market. These, of course, are two distinct smells. It confused me. I have smelled dead animals before and I could definitely tell that is not pizza; however, a dead squirrel smells like a dead cat, or a dead dog, or a dead chicken, or a dead raccoon. It seems to me that something could have crawled up under the car and died.

I wish we knew what those test results were on the car...

From what I understand, the cadavar dogs can distinguish between other animals, and human decomp. Except someone said pigs are close enough. I can't imagine pizza making as big of a stink as even a dead mouse. I've had both old half-eaten burgers (yes, for over a week, I know, it's gross!) and dead mice. The mouse was quite noticeable. The burgers just dried up and didn't smell much at all. Maybe because they were cooked?

I know if I throw fresh meat out that has expired, I don't take it out of the fridge and put it in the trash until the day the trash goes out. Or my garage will stink to high Heaven. But other food...yeah, it gets smelly, but just annoyingly so, not can't stand to breathe.

 

[Chezhire]

Is George covering for Casey by saying he didn't "see" Caylee in the trunk?
The gas cans would have covered for a bundled Caylee
He says CASEY opened the trunk
Who took out the wedge? I think Casey......

bet they're waiting to see what the trunk results are going to be before lockign in to who exactly saw what and when, but it sets it up as a potential defense IF the testing prooves inconclusive...
thoughts?

 

[Chezhire]

How horrible for you and your family! I would be freaked to move back into that house!

I can't remember if I posted this on this thread or not (and I'm too lazy to read back a few pages), but my high school bf and his dad worked for a towing company. They towed a car that a man had committed suicide in. It was summer and he had been in the car for 2 or 3 days. The people in the tow truck could smell it even with their windows up and the car's windows up. They had to put that car as far back in the impound lot as possible...it smelled that bad as soon as you got on the lot.

I, personally, did not choose to go check out the smell. I just know they could smell that thing hundreds of feet away.

some WSers have pondered the "what if" of Caylee (I hope it's not true) being deceased and in the truck of the car when George picked it up from the impound, but after reading your comments, I'd be willing to bet that in the July FL heat, ppl at Amscot AND the towing company wold have alerted LE immediately to that kind of smell... so I don't think there was anyone's body in that trunk when George picked it up from the impound/tow lot...

 

[headndownstream]

Hello All,

This is my first time posting at Websleuths. I have been lurking for a while now, and was just accepted into your community. Out of all the different forums that discuss the Caylee Marie Anthony case, I think you all here at websleuths' are the most informed and informative.

I have some thoughts on the body decomposition and cadaver dog theory that I would like to throw out there.

There are many things that I have thought about this case. Apparently, when they train dogs, they train them with human hair, blood, bones, nails, and stuff like that. Sometimes, they do not have a human body to train them with, so they will use a bottle of chemicals that have been produced to smell like the chemicals produced by a decomposing human body.

I, also, noticed that people have been saying that a cadaver dog can distinguish between a human decomposing body and an animal. This is true, with the exception of pigs. Pigs are more chemically related to humans than any other animal. I remembered this from Biology in college. It was weird to me then, and its still weird to me now. At any rate, when a pig decomposes or lives, they still remain chemically linked to humans. Thus, dog trainers will often use pig remains instead of human remains. It is just easier to get their hands on a dead pig sometimes. After thinking about this, I googled it and found this amazing article about a dog named Shep and his trainer that would go looking for bodies. I would highly recommend reading it. It talks about the accuracy of the dogs.

I think it is possible that a dog might hit on a spot where pizza is if the pizza contains canadian bacon, sausage, or pepperoni. I tried to find out if the chemical composition would change after the meat was cured and seasoned, but I do not know at this point.

Also, if she had used feminine hygeine products, or hair clippings in her trunk, then the dog would hit on it.

As far as the odor, I would think that a nurse would be able to distinguish between the scents of death and old pizza. I don't know, there might be some strange smell manufactured by the maggots when the defacate pork. That might smell to high heaven.

In addition, I just wanted to note that I have had maggots on things that were not dead. A few weeks ago, I found all these maggots underneath my cat's water bowl. It was disgusting and I don't know what they were feeding on. There was nothing there except a piece of newspaper.

Thanks for your time. I am looking forward to your thoughts.

P.S. here's the link to that site I was talking about.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/s...uth-behind-the-crimescene-canines-835047.html

From one new person to another, hi! That was very interesting. I really never knew much at all about cadaver dogs, until this past month.

 

[headndownstream]

I wanted to say I've been a nurse for 30+ years and am not sure what decomposition smells like. I know the odor of gangrene, unforgettable. But human decomp?, well, I guess I was lucky, we moved them out before that set in.

 

[impatientredhead]

Dead things smell, even my garage stunk from one small dead mouse. I don't even know how to describe it but you don't forget that smell, it's more stinky and in your mouth and nose than things like dog poop.

<snip>

.

One of the items I read about the topic said that putriscene and cadavarine are both heavier than oxygen, so you get that clinging to you effect that you describe.

 

[JBean]

some WSers have pondered the "what if" of Caylee (I hope it's not true) being deceased and in the truck of the car when George picked it up from the impound, but after reading your comments, I'd be willing to bet that in the July FL heat, ppl at Amscot AND the towing company wold have alerted LE immediately to that kind of smell... so I don't think there was anyone's body in that trunk when George picked it up from the impound/tow lot...

You know this reminded me of a case last year. A woman was killed in a car crash, but no one realized that she was in the passenger seat and she managed to end up under the airbag...dead. The car was taken off to the tow yard with her inside and no one knew it.
Relatives reported her missing the next day and the authorites checked the car more than 24 hours later and there she was. They determined she had died on impact at the accident..so she had been dead for at least 30 hours before she was discovered. The tow company didn't notice a thing.

 

[pang223]

I myself have never had the misfortune to smell a dead body but I do know people who have and they all say it's unmistakable. Just think about all of the news reports you've read about police finding dead bodies because of neighbors reporting a horrible smell. And when they quote the people that called police, they all say the same thing: There was this HORRIBLE smell in the air and I didn't know what it was... or...I've never smelled anything LIKE what was coming from that house.

I hope I NEVER have to smell it.

 

[websurfer]

He has every right to question the ability of the dogs and handlers.
What he is doing is to question the ability of the handlers to taint or steer the dogs to their way of thinking.
one handler says yes that false positives can occur if, the handler tightens up or gives off some sort of tense signal.
But that depends on if they know something ahead of time.

How can anybody think the handlers knew anything the first time in the yard?

Ok so if anybody doubts these sets of dogs.
Shouldn't a handler come from someplace who is not near this area and let their dogs do a search?

 

[JBean]

bumping for more discussion. the more we talk about this on the geraldo thread, the more intriguing it becomes.

 

[GizzySmith]

Interesting article, Odor sensor could help find decomposing bodies. Two things I found of interest.

1. Vass tested an air sample from the trunk of the car the child's mother drove, where a cadaver dog had signaled he picked up a scent.

Vass said he couldn't comment on the results since the investigation is continuing. This tells me that the results are definately back.

2.Vass and Marc Wise, another Oak Ridge researcher, have been working for years to pin down the signature combination of chemicals that indicate a human body is buried beneath the earth. They also had to catalog the emissions of plants and animal remains, which give off similar odors and chemicals that can throw off the scent for a cadaver dog. Names some of the things that can throw off the scent of cadaver dog and that animal remains are similar scent to humans.

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080824/NEWS03/808240420/1017/NEWS01

 

[JBean]

Interesting article, Odor sensor could help find decomposing bodies. Two things I found of interest.

1. Vass tested an air sample from the trunk of the car the child's mother drove, where a cadaver dog had signaled he picked up a scent.

Vass said he couldn't comment on the results since the investigation is continuing. This tells me that the results are definately back.

2.Vass and Marc Wise, another Oak Ridge researcher, have been working for years to pin down the signature combination of chemicals that indicate a human body is buried beneath the earth. They also had to catalog the emissions of plants and animal remains, which give off similar odors and chemicals that can throw off the scent for a cadaver dog. Names some of the things that can throw off the scent of cadaver dog and that animal remains are similar scent to humans.

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080824/NEWS03/808240420/1017/NEWS01

Very interesting article and thank you for posting.
Something is way off about the decomp smell and the test results imo.

 

[janiekay]

I also read another one about the "body farm". It is a very different type of experimental precedure from most. I do think their research is very much needed and could be very useful in finding bodies quicker and more reliably than cadaver dogs. Look at this quote from the article,

"With the August heat wearing on the 24-year-old's body for three days, it was already too badly decomposed to determine a cause of death."

3 days after the death of Janet March, her body was too badly decomposed to determine a cause of death. It has been over 2 months since Caylee was last seen...I'm afraid that there is not much to find anymore. I'm sorry to be negative, but I just don't believe that she is alive anymore. The biggest key is the trunk. If it wasn't Caylee's remains in the trunk, who was in there??? Nobody else is associated with the family and missing, except Zainada, and we all know where she is...(in Casey's head!!!):furious:

 

[JBean]

I also read another one about the "body farm". It is a very different type of experimental precedure from most. I do think their research is very much needed and could be very useful in finding bodies quicker and more reliably than cadaver dogs. Look at this quote from the article,

"With the August heat wearing on the 24-year-old's body for three days, it was already too badly decomposed to determine a cause of death."

3 days after the death of Janet March, her body was too badly decomposed to determine a cause of death. It has been over 2 months since Caylee was last seen...I'm afraid that there is not much to find anymore. I'm sorry to be negative, but I just don't believe that she is alive anymore. The biggest key is the trunk. If it wasn't Caylee's remains in the trunk, who was in there??? Nobody else is associated with the family and missing, except Zainada, and we all know where she is...(in Casey's head!!!):furious:

we had a family of 5 discovered dead in my neighborhood. They had been dead for about 2 weeks in a closed up house. Our local media did in depth reporting on the decomp process and it was not pretty. man.

What will you think if the trunk testing comes back negative for human decomp?

 

[janiekay]

I think the tests have come back, and they are positive. I think LE is just taking their time and making sure they have all their ducks in a row before charging her with murder, manslaughter, or accidental homicide or whatever!!!

Of course, I didn't think ole' Lenny was going to really post bond, either, so I have been wrong before if you can believe it, LOL!!!

According to the articles that I have read about the body farm, they have been able to pick up the "smell" of skeletons with their new BO detector!! BOY, I hope they don't call it that, although it is kind of funny...hehehe.

I'm at the point that I have to cheer myself up, because between this and the Gonzolas case in Lynn, MA, I feel like SCREAMING!!!!!!!:furious:

 

[LI_Mom]

I think the tests have come back, and they are positive. I think LE is just taking their time and making sure they have all their ducks in a row before charging her with murder, manslaughter, or accidental homicide or whatever!!!

I sure hope you're right.... the idea that this so called mother will get away with 'losing' her baby & then simply going out to enjoy her life is just too awful to wrap my head around.


There's a special place in hell for Casey Anthony..... she's a monster for what she's done with &/or to her baby AND then to her own family.

 

[GizzySmith]

One other thing to remember is that when a person dies there is usually a release of body function fluids. Even if a person was killed in one place and then put in a trunk I would think there would also be a residue of these body fluids. I can't remember does urine glow under black light?

 

[janiekay]

body fluids that react to black light include: blood, urine and semen. see below:


What Materials Glow Under a Black or Ultraviolet Light?
By Anne Marie Helmenstine, Ph.D., About.com

Body Fluids
Many body fluids contain fluorescent molecules. Forensic scientists use ultraviolet lights at crime scenes to find blood, urine, or semen (all fluorescent).