GUILTY Denmark - Kim Wall, 30, Copenhagen, 10 Aug 2017

[SATA]

Is it possible naivete ?
If you have ever been on a boat with a captain you might have an idea as to this jeckle and hyde behaviour.
In my experiences it seemed like an imaginary line was crossed once you are on the boat and have set out to sea and you cant get off it . Its well known among boating deckhands that within a short time or distance of the departure a boat captain will change markedly . You then become the subject of the captain...a type of slave.....servant....deckhand....
of varying degree .
These Captains are very good people until you go to sea with them and cross that line, which is soon after departure...
It may not be until you have done a few trips to sea, that you can clearly identify this procedure, that repeats itself over and over again with A Sea Captain .
Its similar to an abduction, when you stop to consider the vulnerable situation...A submarine is an underwater going vessel so a high level of trust should exist to start...
Was Peter Madsen reputed to be very trustworthy?
Did he groom the victim over time before this horrific murder ?
Did the victim even feel safe at all,
was it considered a little bit risky ?
Was KWs boyfriend nearby awaiting her safe return, unable to do anything?
So sad for the boyfriend also, the poor unfortunate friend of Kim....RiP

I have been on a fishing trawler, travelling for free.
The captain´s word was law, but he was actually OK.
There were two German girls on the four day trip to another country. They were soooo seasick all the way, and the captain gave me this job of making sure they ate some bisquits and drank water, that was all, and fair enough.
It spared the girls that some males came in and saw them in horrible condition!
So I guess I was the nurse on that trip!

Never heard of the captain syndrome either. It is interesting, and there probably are some a-holes out there abusing their power.

 

[SATA]

Interesting. I have never heard of that Captain-syndrome before. Now I will never go out to sail anymore...
Well, the rumors say that he often had women with him on the submarine, and what he did to them knows only they. He apparently didnt kill before, because the police hasnt forund any match with his DNA.

I didnt know PM personally, but it seems that he did had some good deal of trust in his personal environment and in the media, because of what he had done with his rockets and the submarine, so I dont think that KW was at all naive to go with him. No one knew anything about his dark site apparently.

It seems that he didnt know KW before the meeting, but as she lived 200 meters from his workshop so he could have noticed her, without her knowing.

According to her boyfriend she did feel comfortable and exited when they left in the submarine, because she sent him text-messages about it, until the sms suddenly stopped. Which again led her boyfriend to call the police.
If it was considered risky then my guess is that it could have been risky because it was a trip in a homemade submarine, and not so much because it was with PM.

Her boyfriend was nearby because they lived nearby so he was waiting (she was supposed to only be away for a few hours) and got nervouse when the sms stopped. Yeah he must have been extremely nervous and it has been awful for him in those hours before he called the police, and after also of course.

I know women and men who have been on that submarine.
Let´s talk about the women, since there is some victim blaming out there concerning this case!

They went on that submarine because they had the opportunity and were curious. One is a CEO. No one suspected anything at the time.
I think they didn´t pay, but PM also earned some money from paid tours on the subm.

 

[meticulously]

I know women and men who have been on that submarine.
Let´s talk about the women, since there is some victim blaming out there concerning this case!

They went on that submarine because they had the opportunity and were curious. One is a CEO. No one suspected anything at the time.
I think they didn´t pay, but PM also earned some money from paid tours on the subm.

Thank you Sata for your information about other people going in the submarine and living to tell the tale / story .

I think PM would be too gutless to kill the boyfriend, he lied about the truthful story of what happened afterwards...
An opportunistic attack, because the b/f man didn't go with them.
PM had fantasized and planned this type of sexual motivated attack .
If you were aware that PM was a S&M or BDSM sex fiend would you go with him in the submarine ? Perhaps KW didn't know that was his type of kinky....
He targeted KW and fantasized and prepared for it to happen .
JmO


"According to the petition, Peter Madsen had planned in advance and prepared her death.
Among other things, bring "saw, knife, tapered screwdrivers, straps, strips and tubes".
Subsequently, according to the adultery, she was bound "at the head, on arms and legs" before he mistreated her "by killing her, stabbed and cut her and killed her" as stated in the charges.
Peter Madsen is especially charged with a particular sexual assault on the Swedish journalist Kim Wall, killing her immediately afterwards and then unseemly dealing with the body by mating her body and throwing it into the sea."

https://translate.googleusercontent...210512&usg=ALkJrhhp7CdSFRX4ipMuomYqNIbZdESmbQ

 

[meticulously]

Kim Walls boyfriend reveals terrible details about the last hours before meeting with Peter Madsen

In the hours after Peter Madsen and Kim Wall had left the dock on Refshale Island, she sent several messages to her boyfriend. She expressed her excitement about being aboard the submarine, and there were absolutely no indications that something was going to happen soon.
But suddenly there were no more messages on the girlfriend's phone....

Article here:
https://translate.google.com/transl...e-detaljer-om-de-sidste-timer-foer-moedet-med

Thank you for the article L_I ,

KW was in doubt as to whether she should take up the offer.

Quote :
"Kim Wall and the boyfriend had invited a small group of friends to a reunion party on the 10th of August on Refshale Island because she and the boyfriend shortly went to China when Peter Madsen suddenly sent Kim Wall a message where he offered her an interview.
It should take place the same evening and it should be on board his submarine, explains the boyfriend to TV 2."

"According to the boyfriend, Kim Wall was in doubt as to whether she should thank yes, but they agreed that she should do it so that she could make a report to an American magazine.
The interview would only last two hours, so she would be back soon.
Considered taking the submarine
The Swedish journalist offered the boyfriend to take the submarine trip with Peter Madsen, but after considering it a little, he chose to stay with the about 10 guests to the farewell party so that they were not left alone."

https://translate.googleusercontent...et-med&usg=ALkJrhjlD6mUEhzJvqf7yfy0ITKM8HlRJw

 

[SATA]

Was Peter Madsen reputed to be very trustworthy?
I think he generally was. He managed to make many people and companies sponsor his projects through the years.
You would not sponsor a person you didn´t trust.

Did he groom the victim over time before this horrific murder ?
Possibly to a smaller degree, they had met prior to the last trip. He would have made her trust him.

Did the victim even feel safe at all,
was it considered a little bit risky ?
In my view only because of a technical error on a home built submarine.
In that context, it wouldn´t have scared me.
I know people who know PM very well + he has sailed around in that vessel for years. He knew what he was doing with it.
That is, last January, I got scared of him and after that would NOT have gone with him on that submarine, but before that, I would have, I think.

Was KWs boyfriend nearby awaiting her safe return, unable to do anything?
He did what he could, didn´t he? He had contact with her via text messages. When they stopped, he contacted rescue services.
Some think it is suspicious that he did that so soon - I cannot see their point!

So sad for the boyfriend also, the poor unfortunate friend of Kim....RiP

You had some questions here, tried answering the best I can.

 

[Moll]

Thank you Sata for your information about other people going in the submarine and living to tell the tale / story .

I think PM would be too gutless to kill the boyfriend, he lied about the truthful story of what happened afterwards...
An opportunistic attack, because the b/f man didn't go with them.
PM had fantasized and planned this type of sexual motivated attack .
If you were aware that PM was a S&M or BDSM sex fiend would you go with him in the submarine ? Perhaps KW didn't know that was his type of kinky....
He targeted KW and fantasized and prepared for it to happen .
JmO


"According to the petition, Peter Madsen had planned in advance and prepared her death.
Among other things, bring "saw, knife, tapered screwdrivers, straps, strips and tubes".
Subsequently, according to the adultery, she was bound "at the head, on arms and legs" before he mistreated her "by killing her, stabbed and cut her and killed her" as stated in the charges.
Peter Madsen is especially charged with a particular sexual assault on the Swedish journalist Kim Wall, killing her immediately afterwards and then unseemly dealing with the body by mating her body and throwing it into the sea."

https://translate.googleusercontent...210512&usg=ALkJrhhp7CdSFRX4ipMuomYqNIbZdESmbQ

As usual there's a lot of bizarre stuff in the Google translation. Madsen is accused of 'having the walls of the party and throwing the bodies overboard', I think it said for
'Derudover er Madsen tiltalt for at have parteret Walls lig og kastet ligdelene over bord'.

As before, the system can't cope with 'parteren' which is dismembered. The other paragraph you quote translates it with 'mate' . I don't really know any Danish, unfortunately (though I visit there at least once a year), but in this case I keep noticing this one word.

 

[SATA]

As usual there's a lot of bizarre stuff in the Google translation. Madsen is accused of 'having the walls of the party and throwing the bodies overboard', I think it said for
'Derudover er Madsen tiltalt for at have parteret Walls lig og kastet ligdelene over bord'.

As before, the system can't cope with 'parteren' which is dismembered. The other paragraph you quote translates it with 'mate' . I don't really know any Danish, unfortunately (though I visit there at least once a year), but in this case I keep noticing this one word.

The correct translation is something like this: Furthermore, Madsen is indicted for dismembering Wall´s body and throwing the parts overboard.

They simply don´t have the word for dismemberment in google translate.
In Danish the word is, (to dismember) partere, (dismemberment) partering. In Danish partner can be, well, partner - so it mixes it all up.

 

[SATA]

I too believe PM would have killed the boyfriend first and then Kim Wall, if the bf had decided to go along on the trip.

To me the timing of the killing is crucial.

I have written about this earlier in the thread, so please bear with me.

There were two rocket projects on Refshaleøen. Peter Madsen´s original project from which he was kicked and his new project.
Those two rocket projects were set to have a test launch at the island of Bornholm very shortly after the killing - on the same day no less. In fact, PM had planned to sail to Bornholm the day after with some helpers.
He cancelled that trip by text message to one of his helpers at 11 pm the night of the trip with Kim Wall.
The irony of it is that there were no launches. The other project had some problems...

PM has admitted that he was very much on edge because of the launches. The competition. I think he knew, or was afraid, the other project would do better - AND HE COULD NOT HAVE THAT!
The killing was his way out - out of it all.
For years he had been talking about being the first amateur to send a man into space - he was that man.
I think he knew by then it was never going to happen - closing in on 50 years of age. Probably under-funded compared to the other project.

So, this was his day to live out a dreadful fantasy.


Locical_Inference:


That just makes me so angry! It was NOT Kim Wall´s fault what happened to her in any shape, size or form.
Victim blaming at it´s "finest" there. ugh

I have to correct myself here. I saw a documentary about Kim Wall, her murder and investigation yesterday.
Peter Madsen sent a text message cancelling the trip to his associate at 6 PM on the day he sailed out with Kim Wall.
One hour before they left shore.

So, as soon as he had the appointment with Kim Wall, he knew he was going to kill her that night and cancelled the trip.
Why he was so "polite" to do that is a bit strange, I think, considering what he was going to do!

The man he sent the message to was interviewed for the documentary, and he showed the text message - and his own reply.
He asked why the trip was cancelled and when they would leave for Bornholm then; but there was no further answer from PM.

I think this is another piece in the puzzle that points to a planned murder.

This man also talked about that PM had talked to him about wanting to commit the perfect crime. To have police chasing him in helicopters and ships.
The man said he just pretended he didn´t hear it - and that he thought PM was fantasizing about a bank robbery or something along those lines.

Also, there were pictures of Kim Wall´s boyfriend in the documentary. That must have been with his permission.

 

[Logical_Inference]

The murderer Peter Madsen has chosen that as few people as possible must decide his destiny.
The prosecutor's office at the Copenhagen Police has raised the case against the 47-year-old submarine builder as a jury case.
This happens when the requirement is at least four years in prison and implies that three legal judges and six jurors must settle the case.
However, it is an accused's right to opt out of the use of jurors. And that is exactly what Peter Madsen has done.

Defender Betina Hald Engmark announces Tuesday to Ritzau:
- My client has chosen to opt out of jurors. I have no further comments for now, writes the lawyer in a text message.
Thus, it is not clear why Madsen has taken the relatively unusual decision to say no to jury.

Article here with some more about the legal system:
https://translate.google.com/transl...aa-personer-skal-afgoere-hans-skaebne/7018616

 

[SATA]

The murderer Peter Madsen has chosen that as few people as possible must decide his destiny.
The prosecutor's office at the Copenhagen Police has raised the case against the 47-year-old submarine builder as a jury case.
This happens when the requirement is at least four years in prison and implies that three legal judges and six jurors must settle the case.
However, it is an accused's right to opt out of the use of jurors. And that is exactly what Peter Madsen has done.

Defender Betina Hald Engmark announces Tuesday to Ritzau:
- My client has chosen to opt out of jurors. I have no further comments for now, writes the lawyer in a text message.
Thus, it is not clear why Madsen has taken the relatively unusual decision to say no to jury.

Article here with some more about the legal system:
https://translate.google.com/transl...aa-personer-skal-afgoere-hans-skaebne/7018616

I have two guesses, but they are only guesses of course.

1. He thinks it is easier to manipulate a few people than a number of people.

2, His estimate is that a judge will not base his sentence on feelings, but entirely professionally and by the book, whereas a jury might let sentiment play a role in the sentencing.

 

[Logical_Inference]

I have two guesses, but they are only guesses of course.

1. He thinks it is easier to manipulate a few people than a number of people.

2, His estimate is that a judge will not base his sentence on feelings, but entirely professionally and by the book, whereas a jury might let sentiment play a role in the sentencing.

Yeah, its also some of my guesses. Maybe PM and his lawyer also have some indication of errors in the policework that they want to play with and a jury would be more on feelings as you mention, where judges are pure rules.

 

[Shiressleuth]

You may be right to a certain degree. I don´t know much about S/M and I am not really interested in it, but I think PM is a rare case - fortunately!
There is a huge step from fantasizing, or even living out some fantasies with a consenting partner/partners - to torturing someone to death.
I don´t think we can generalize.

I have been following the case of Ying Ying Zhang on here who was also apparently subjected to the mad fetish violent tendencies of a physics genius. I think there is something wrong with people like this. Call it insanity I don't know but something has made them like it. Literally the mad professor megalomaniac type.

 

[Shiressleuth]

You had some questions here, tried answering the best I can.

Why did you get scared of him last January? Are you able to share?

 

[Moll]

I have two guesses, but they are only guesses of course.

1. He thinks it is easier to manipulate a few people than a number of people.

2, His estimate is that a judge will not base his sentence on feelings, but entirely professionally and by the book, whereas a jury might let sentiment play a role in the sentencing.

In the UK the jury has responsibility for the verdict, but the sentencing is always a matter for the judge. I am guessing that this is also the case in Denmark? If so, I think he is clutching at straws in thinking maybe the judge would come to a different verdict, because whatever your sentiments, the facts are there.

 

[SATA]

Why did you get scared of him last January? Are you able to share?

Hi, yes I can.
I have written it in a post earlier in this thread, but here goes.

It was January 2017, one year ago now.
I worked at Refshaleøen, not far from Peter Madsen´s workshop.
I worked late, and I was the last one to leave work. It was dark and no people in the building or in the street.

When I got out of the building, Peter Madsen cycled by me. very, very slowly. He stared at me and turned his head looking at me, while he slooooowly cycled by me on his squeaky old bike.
He knows who I am - but he didn´t say hi - and I was too scared to say ANYTHING, because the look on his face and the staring really freaked me out.

I went in the opposite direction to the bus stop, the bus was there (end station).

I thought I was really silly reacting like that, but he really scared me that night.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Hi, yes I can.
I have written it in a post earlier in this thread, but here goes.

It was January 2017, one year ago now.
I worked at Refshaleøen, not far from Peter Madsen´s workshop.
I worked late, and I was the last one to leave work. It was dark and no people in the building or in the street.

When I got out of the building, Peter Madsen cycled by me. very, very slowly. He stared at me and turned his head looking at me, while he slooooowly cycled by me on his squeaky old bike.
He knows who I am - but he didn´t say hi - and I was too scared to say ANYTHING, because the look on his face and the staring really freaked me out.

I went in the opposite direction to the bus stop, the bus was there (end station).

I thought I was really silly reacting like that, but he really scared me that night.

That was good the bus was there. What a frigging weirdo. Do you think he's killed before?

 

[SATA]

That was good the bus was there. What a frigging weirdo. Do you think he's killed before?

We have all thought about that, haven´t we?
It is strange to commit such a thoroughly brutal, perverted murder as a novice at his age.

All I can say is I hope he has not, but I do think he has fantasized about it for some time.

 

[Logical_Inference]

Again PM has volunteered to stay in prison, now until the trial begins.
There was a scheduled meeting wednesday about a prolonging of his imprisonment, but with him voluntarily prolongong it himself then that meeting is cancelled.

https://translate.google.com/transl...nu-er-der-nyt-om-faengslingen-af-peter-madsen

Another article from a few days ago in one of the tabloid magazines:
Raket-Madsen's creepy plan: On women's hunt
https://translate.google.com/transl.../raket-madsens-uhyggelige-plan-paa-kvindejagt

 

[Moll]

Thanks, LI. Once again we have Google translate alternating 'girlfriend' and 'boyfriend' for 'kaereste' in that unsettling way, in the description of her boyfriend's account in that second article. Is it the first time that we have seen mention that other women had previously been asked by PM to go on the submarine at about the same time?

 

[Logical_Inference]

Thanks, LI. Once again we have Google translate alternating 'girlfriend' and 'boyfriend' for 'kaereste' in that unsettling way, in the description of her boyfriend's account in that second article. Is it the first time that we have seen mention that other women had previously been asked by PM to go on the submarine at about the same time?

Yeah I havent seen anywhere that PM had been on an actual hunt, but there was a few people at the start of all this that came out and said that they have been invited, but couldnt go at the time he wanted them to go. But that was on the first days after his arrest that it was mentioned in the media.

I am sorry about that awful google-translation. I did translate the articles by hand in the first days, but its a huge job, and my english isnt perfect either, so I hope that people can more or less guess what it means in the translation. There is not much that is said about it in international media unfortunately.