GUILTY Denmark - Kim Wall, 30, Copenhagen, 10 Aug 2017

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  • #1,121
Legally Bland said:
I'm probably about the same build as PM. Some of the 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬 I've dragged up and stored in my loft would be heavier than Kim. Admittedly, I haven't dragged any dead bodies up there, but it really would have taken more time and effort to dismember.

The dismemberment may have been for the concealment of evidence, or something else, but it wasn't for convenience.
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Probably not, since he had planned to do it. He had planned everything and thought he was committing the perfect crime.

He made the stupid mistake to underestimate the brilliant police and other professionals (including the fantastic dogs) who cracked the case.
 
  • #1,122
Moll said:
Very true - we do need to keep reminding ourselves of this huge, mad and glaring incriminating feature of PM's story.
His explanation, if I recall correctly, has been that he went into a psychotic state on finding Kim Wall dead, and so became obsessed with getting her body out of the Nautilus. (Was this part of the evidence he gave on 8 March? I haven't located it again.)
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I thought he said he slept for two hours?
 
  • #1,123
Shiressleuth said:
I thought he said he slept for two hours?
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Yes, he did say that, I think in court on 8 March. He also said, much earlier, that he had been in a state of suicidal psychosis, and I don't think he's dropped that, as on 8 March he also told the prosecutor he wasn't in a rational state when he dismembered Kim's body. These things could both be true. But not what he says happened before.
 
  • #1,124
Shiressleuth said:
I thought he said he slept for two hours?
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I saw a very detailed graph of the movement of Nautilus that night and morning on the news here.
I saw it ONCE and tried finding it online, but I think it was taken down and not reported on more than this once.

The movement of the Submarine with the correct times (they have them) will perhaps be able to shed a light on whether this is true or not.

I don´t think it is impossible the madman went to sleep, but it could also just be one of his lies.
 
  • #1,125
Moll said:
L_I, is the translation right when it says 'must'? Shouldn't it be 'is allowed to'?

It does say 'may' in another place, which is better. So the law is, you can't expect a defendant to tell the truth if it will incriminate them. I suppose that follows from a dishonest plea of Not Guilty, really.
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I guess that this is what you mean by "must":
"Basically, the accused must lie because you can not claim a charge that he or she should sit and indicate himself," said the defense attorney, supported by the Associate Professor and PhD. in law at the University of Copenhagen Trine Baumbach.
It is not must like "must" do something/have to do something. Its must in "must" be lying/must be at the mall.
If you understand. Its a guess that the accused is lying.
"May" would be fine too, yes.

Hope that clears it up a little.
 
  • #1,126
Is allowed to, is the right way of putting it, Moll.
 
  • #1,127
SATA said:
Yeah, I was too generous with the tube! :laughing:

I just wish they had gotten around to sending his sorry a** into space in his "tube", and the whole thing had blown up. I have thought that a million times since the murder of Kim Wall.
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Actually it would be much better to put him in the sewer (tubes) and let him have all the fun he wants with the female rats there, and I bet the stench is so harsh so that he will never be able to sleep because of breathing-problems.....

Anyway, I have managed to read the testemony from the sailor that sailed right next to the sub wih no lanterns or other light on, and the young guy that worked in his workshop, and the weak girl that he definitely abused mentally, and IMO, together with the forensic, there is so much just in those few peoples statements that shows that PM is guilty as hell, so for my sake they could drop the rest of the witnesses and convict him tomorrow!
 
  • #1,128
  • #1,129
Logical_Inference said:
Actually it would be much better to put him in the sewer (tubes) and let him have all the fun he wants with the female rats there, and I bet the stench is so harsh so that he will never be able to sleep because of breathing-problems.....

Anyway, I have managed to read the testemony from the sailor that sailed right next to the sub wih no lanterns or other light on, and the young guy that worked in his workshop, and the weak girl that he definitely abused mentally, and IMO, together with the forensic, there is so much just in those few peoples statements that shows that PM is guilty as hell, so for my sake they could drop the rest of the witnesses and convict him tomorrow!
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I agree, there is plenty in my eyes too, but
I am worried about that they cannot pinpoint a cause of death. I hope they have enough to give him the harshest sentence possible even without that.​

Mental abuse is a good phrase for what he did to her.
I can´t believe all this went on in the rocket workshop - I always just pictured two or more nerds working on rockets!

Too naive, I can see in hindsight!
 
  • #1,130
Logical_Inference said:
I guess that this is what you mean by "must":
"Basically, the accused must lie because you can not claim a charge that he or she should sit and indicate himself," said the defense attorney, supported by the Associate Professor and PhD. in law at the University of Copenhagen Trine Baumbach.
It is not must like "must" do something/have to do something. Its must in "must" be lying/must be at the mall.
If you understand. Its a guess that the accused is lying.
"May" would be fine too, yes.

Hope that clears it up a little.
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It perhaps could be better put as "It is likely the accused must lie in order to not implicate himself"
 
  • #1,131
  • #1,132
SATA said:
I agree, there is plenty in my eyes too, but
I am worried about that they cannot pinpoint a cause of death. I hope they have enough to give him the harshest sentence possible even without that.​

Mental abuse is a good phrase for what he did to her.
I can´t believe all this went on in the rocket workshop - I always just pictured two or more nerds working on rockets!

Too naive, I can see in hindsight!
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BBM


But they CAN pinpoint the cause of death. It is not like they are saying yeah yeah she is dead but we have no clue as to how that did happen. On the contrary, the death of Kim Wall can only be due a few causes. Perhaps CO poisoning is still somewhere deep down on the list, but if it is, it is hardly likely that it will remain there. As for all the other causes, they could have been done by one person and PM is the only one who was present.

First, there is a body so they know for sure that Kim Wall is dead.
Next, it is known when she was still alive and when she disappeared.
It is also known where she was.
It is also known who was with her at the time.
It is also known that she did not leave the submarine alive.
Next, the various experts have indicated possible causes and they have excluded other causes. Technical evidence about the submarine will exclude certain causes even more ~ and will logically reinforce the other causes.

The case of the prosecution is a legal case. This means that what gets PM convicted (for a long, long time) is not necessarily what happened but what can and will be proven. What really happened in that submarine will probably never be revealed for the full 100% - if that were possible, plus PM is not obliged to tell. IMHO it was an even bigger horror than the one that we now know about.
 
  • #1,133
SATA said:
Is allowed to, is the right way of putting it, Moll.
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Thanks, L_I and SATA.
When it comes to a case like this, perhaps it makes little difference in practice that there is this difference in theory between Danish and English law, or whether it's a 'may' or a 'bound to happen'. If you take a case in the English court last year, against Ian Stewart for the murder of Helen Bailey, he lied constantly too and changed his story as the police discovered what he thought they'd never discover: her body in the cesspit under the garage floor. They found him guilty but he didn't get charged with perjury for lying on oath. A witness on the other hand would have been charged, I think, if they had lied.
 
  • #1,134
I agree, ZaZara. I would also add the other point we have been discussing, it is known that PM went to bizarre lengths to prevent her body being found and when it was found there were additional wounds impossible to explain by any natural causes.
In fact, as people on this thread went through the live feeds on Friday they fished out several exchanges where it looked as though some of these 'accidental causes' of death were being ruled out.
 
  • #1,135
Monday, March 26th:
*Trial continues (Day 5) - Denmark - Kim Isabel Wall (30) (Aug. 10, 2017) - Peter Langkjær Madsen (46) charged with premeditated murder in addition to dismemberment & sexual relations other than intercourse of a particularly dangerous nature & indecent handling of a corpse. Pled not guilty. Trial continues
March 26 - Witnesses
March 27 - Witnesses
March 28 - Witnesses (afternoon reserved for lawyer's questions of PM, postponed from March 21)
April 3 - Witnesses
April 4 - Documentation
April 5 - Reserve Day
April 23 - Procedures
April 25 - Verdict
37 witnesses will take the stand during case, 29 from the prosecution and 8 from the defense. 3/22: 6 witnesses; 3/23: 4 witnesses (+1 cancelled).

Do I have the number of witnesses correct? TIA!
 
  • #1,136
  • #1,137
  • #1,138
The 'irresponsible sailing' allegation that's being heard about now seems out of place among all the other dreadful stuff...I wonder if the prosecution view it as separate or connected.
 
  • #1,139
  • #1,140
Your head spins after this trial day!
 
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