GUILTY Denmark - Kim Wall, 30, Copenhagen, 10 Aug 2017

[ZaZara]

I followed the TL of @californiarobin during the day. It is 'easier' reading afterwards. During the day it made my head spinning, but the discussions are becoming clearer to me now.
I don't know how @californiarobin manages an entire day.

Same applies to you, Legally Bland. Thanks for your hard work and I hope you are okay.


:toastred: fftobed:

 

[Niner]

Here's an article in English!

Peter Madsen Trial: Day 7 recap as submariner takes the stand again
http://cphpost.dk/news/peter-madsen-trial-day-seven-recap-as-submariner-takes-the-stand-again.html

Only four others took the stand on Wednesday – the last day until the case resumes again next Tuesday.

Oops - my mistake - 4 people took the stand yesterday.

Here's what I have:

37 witnesses will take the stand during case, 29 from the prosecution and 8 from the defense. (3/22-6 witnesses, 3/23-4 (+1 cancelled), 3/26-9 witnesses; 3/27-10 witnesses; 3/28-4 witnesses + PM (33 total; 28 for Pros, 5 for Defense.)

So we have 1 more for Pros and 3 for defense to go on Tuesday, April 3rd.

Just saw your post:

There was one other witness at the beginning of the court today before PM. The name was with held but it was PM 's agent.

PM's agent - does that mean he testified for PM? Should the Defense have 6 witnesses already?
TIA!

okay - now I'm confused! LOL!

Court decisions: 2 witnesses, an expert doctor on carbon monoxide poisoning & a psychiatrist, have been denied the possibility of giving evidence.

Witness 26: A man whose name can’t be publicized who has knowledge of all sex subcultures incl the dark sex milieu.

Okay - 2 witnesses for defense did NOT testify - so that leave only 1 more for the defense....
Witness 26 - for the pros??

HELP!! Just want to get the total witnesses correct!

 

[Shiressleuth]

Here's an article in English!

Peter Madsen Trial: Day 7 recap as submariner takes the stand again
http://cphpost.dk/news/peter-madsen-trial-day-seven-recap-as-submariner-takes-the-stand-again.html

Only four others took the stand on Wednesday – the last day until the case resumes again next Tuesday.

Oops - my mistake - 4 people took the stand yesterday.

Here's what I have:

37 witnesses will take the stand during case, 29 from the prosecution and 8 from the defense. (3/22-6 witnesses, 3/23-4 (+1 cancelled), 3/26-9 witnesses; 3/27-10 witnesses; 3/28-4 witnesses + PM (33 total; 28 for Pros, 5 for Defense.)

So we have 1 more for Pros and 3 for defense to go on Tuesday, April 3rd.

Just saw your post:


PM's agent - does that mean he testified for PM? Should the Defense have 6 witnesses already?
TIA!

okay - now I'm confused! LOL!



Okay - 2 witnesses for defense did NOT testify - so that leave only 1 more for the defense....
Witness 26 - for the pros??

HELP!! Just want to get the total witnesses correct!

According to @californiarobin (see ZZ post) witness 26 was for the defence and his name was withheld. He is an agent for PM who organised tours .

I have only read 4 witnesses including PM. So witness 26 and Kim's parents and PM = 4 (I think )

Also, the two witnesses denied - I am unsure if they were prosecution or defence witnesses. Maybe someone else can confirm.

 

[ZaZara]

From yesterdays TL of reporter Robin Elizabeth Herr @CaliforniaRobin


#kimwall’s mother is on the witness stand.

She is witness 27. She [ KW ] left home when she was 20 to Lund, Sorbonne, London School of Economics and later Columbia School of Journalism. #kimwall

She had her old room as a base... Sometimes, she was home but most of the time she was on her way somewhere else.

They had contact once a week when #kimwall had WiFi.

Prosecutor asks about #kimwall’s boyfriend. Answer: The first time we met Ole was the day before 10 August. He was the love of her life. She has said this many times and she also said it that day.

Prosecutor: How are you now? Answer: Before this happened,?we had a whole other life. It doesn’t matter if I listened to TV, the radio, or go to the store, we hear about her case.

Answer con’t: Trekoner is a really little town. We used to be business people, now we are parents.

#kimwall’s father confirms his wife’s testimony by saying that all of #kimwalls friends said that her boyfriend was the love her life. Note: It feels as if her father has all the life sucked out of him. He appears sad.

The prosecutor is asking for 150,00 Danish kroner or nearly US $25,000 dollars in damages to the parents, including for pain and suffering.



:rose:

 

[Moll]

According to @californiarobin (see ZZ post) witness 26 was for the defence and his name was withheld. He is an agent for PM who organised tours .

I have only read 4 witnesses including PM. So witness 26 and Kim's parents and PM = 4 (I think )

Also, the two witnesses denied - I am unsure if they were prosecution or defence witnesses. Maybe someone else can confirm.

Defence, brought in as an afterthought. I hope that doesn't give any grounds for saying PM was deprived of anything....

 

[SATA]

From yesterdays TL of reporter Robin Elizabeth Herr @CaliforniaRobin


#kimwall’s mother is on the witness stand.

She is witness 27. She [ KW ] left home when she was 20 to Lund, Sorbonne, London School of Economics and later Columbia School of Journalism. #kimwall

She had her old room as a base... Sometimes, she was home but most of the time she was on her way somewhere else.

They had contact once a week when #kimwall had WiFi.

Prosecutor asks about #kimwall’s boyfriend. Answer: The first time we met Ole was the day before 10 August. He was the love of her life. She has said this many times and she also said it that day.

Prosecutor: How are you now? Answer: Before this happened,?we had a whole other life. It doesn’t matter if I listened to TV, the radio, or go to the store, we hear about her case.

Answer con’t: Trekoner is a really little town. We used to be business people, now we are parents.

#kimwall’s father confirms his wife’s testimony by saying that all of #kimwalls friends said that her boyfriend was the love her life. Note: It feels as if her father has all the life sucked out of him. He appears sad.

The prosecutor is asking for 150,000 Danish kroner or nearly US $25,000 dollars in damages to the parents, including for pain and suffering.



:rose:

Ridiculously low amount, but this is the way it is in Denmark, always so low on damages that it almost feels like an insult.

 

[Moll]

Ridiculously low amount, but this is the way it is in Denmark, always so low on damages that it almost feels like an insult.

It does seem very low, but it is evidently higher than usual, from the EB account yesterday:
'12:24
Camilla Marie Nielsen
Then the aid attorney comes to the question of the amount of compensation.
In connection with killing, it is in the region of 100,000 kroner, which may increase depending on whether death or violence is a result of violence or sexual abuse.
- I have requested 150,000 kroner in this case. And I have because this case is unmatched at all, says the defense attorney.
"It's a trauma that you have to go and wait while your child or cohabitant is found in pieces without knowing whether all the pieces are being found again," said the attorney-general. '

 

[Moll]

The Copenhagen Post article describes Madsen's text to his wife as a suicide text. I didn't think that it was, or that PM described it as such, or that the prosecutor interpreted it as such - did you?
http://cphpost.dk/news/peter-madsen-trial-day-seven-recap-as-submariner-takes-the-stand-again.html
The timing of it was crucial, and the lack of any concern for Kim Wall's nearest and dearest compared with his own, I thought.

 

[ZaZara]

Ridiculously low amount, but this is the way it is in Denmark, always so low on damages that it almost feels like an insult.

Agree. And it is shocking to hear that this is even more than usual.

If two adults are self-employed and cannot work for a year, what good will $25.000 be to them?

Lawyer, travel costs, hotel and a funeral will probably cost them more.

 

[ZaZara]

From yesterdays TL of reporter Robin Elizabeth Herr @CaliforniaRobin


#petermadsen is back on the stand to be questioned by the defense. Defense: Re the 4 Aug. correspondence- had Deirdre asked you to threaten her before? Answer: Yes.

Defense has asked #PeterMadsen to describe how the submarine works & how an accident can occur. There is a sketch on screen. For a sketch & explanation please refer to the tweets from Day 5.



They [ PM and KW ] are in the hull of the submarine. Answer: First, we talked about the submarine and then we did the interview.

#PeterMadsen describes how he tries to get the submarine to the surface again. Please refer to my sketch and explanation from Day 5.

Now I made two fatal mistakes.

First, he forgot to shut the valve that allows the air pipe to drain the water. This means if the engine is on, carbon monoxide can come into the hull.

Then he closed the engine room door. He passed #KimWall and up to the tower, closed the hatch and found out he had locked himself out.

#PeterMadsen heard the motors stop, one after the other. “I thought that she had succeeded in opening the door and had turned off the motors.”

He claims that the compressor’s safety valve adjusted the pressure allowing him to open the hatch again.

#kimwall’s parents are staring straight ahead.

Defense: when you found out #KimWall was dead, what did you think? Answer: It ended right there. It is horrible that a person died because of my experiments.

The defense attorney again: what was your very first thought when you saw that #kimWall was dead? Answer: My world fell apart. I wanted to end it right there.

#petermadsen descibes his text message to his wife 20 minutes after #kimWall’s death because he wanted to say goodbye to her.

#peterMadsen describes his third mistake as not taking his life, because otherwise we wouldn’t be here today. But he said that he wanted to go back to his wife. In earlier testimony, he also mentioned his kittens.

#PeterMadsen explains that he gave different explanations for her death because he didn’t want to describe how she died: “It’s like having a plastic bag on your head.”

Defense asks about the straps. When were you first asked about the straps? Answer: After the 14 Oct. Defense: Did you know what straps they were talking about? Answer: No.

The defense asks about the animations and sex tapes. Some come from his time with Copenhagen Suborbitals, others he could not open. Answer: Yes.

Defense: Do you know how to get into the Dark Net? Answer: No.

Defense: asks about the animation film. Answer: I can’t recall all of them. ... I can’t imagine seeing 5 in a row.

Defense asks about the live films shown yesterday. Answer: They are generally publicly available. They came from a news website on Facebook. I was curious & wanted to find out whether they were real or false.

Prosecutor: Did you talk about snuff films with your Spanish investors? Answer: No.

Prosecutor: Why did you ask to take a short break before #kimwall came? Answer: what are you saying? Prosecutor: You are accused of murder. Answer: That is something you are saying.

The court is finished for the day.

Day 7 summary: 1. #petermadsens agent gave an alternative reason for cancellation of the Bornholm trip & rocket launch. 2. KimWall’s parents asked for nearly US $25,000 in damages for their daughter’s grisly death

Day 7 summary: 3. The courtroom was toxic.This was good for the defense because it meant that the prosecutor had less time to question, but bad because if the accused did commit the crime, he seemed incapable of remorse



(summary 2 is not in the TL)

 

[Moll]

Thanks for that, ZaZara. I had forgotten he did say it was a goodbye, and it seems clearer in Robin's account than in EB...yet the text itself was ambiguous on that score.

What exactly does summary 3 mean?

 

[ZaZara]

:gaah: :gaah:

I see I have missed a part of the TL about PM meeting with KW. Probably happened bacause the sketch of the submarine is repeated.

I will put that here:


From yesterdays TL of reporter Robin Elizabeth Herr @CaliforniaRobin

Defense has asked #PeterMadsen to describe how the submarine works & how an accident can occur. There is a sketch on screen. For a sketch & explanation please refer to the tweets from Day 5.



9Aug: I wrote a blog (he finished 22:27) and I can’t remember much else - I went up to sleep with my wife. Maybe I did something else, but I can’t remember.(Records show he searched for beheading videos that night).

10 Aug. The trainees arrive at 9:30. At some point I went to Netto & bought among other things, a emergency meal, because I had an appointment to go in the submarine the next day with Deirdre - 11 Aug.

Defense asks about the half meter long screwdriver. Answer: I bought it earlier in the summer. He earlier testified that he bought two of them to use as markers for diving.

Defense now asks about the saw? Answer: He took the saw down on the 10 August to make cupboards.

10. Aug phone conversation with #kimwall: She was a few meters away and I understood it to be an important interview... She wanted to write about both rocket projects (Copenhagen Suborbitals and #PeterMadsen).

She came over to talk around 1/2 hour and they made an appointment for sailing at 19. #PeterMadsen needed 5 minutes for a cup coffee and get the submarine ready.

He sends her a a text message with a picture saying the submarine is ready. They meet on the submarine and talk about the submarine, safety, she may have gone under at the hull.

#PeterMadsen says “We waved at a whole bunch of people.” This included Kim’s friends who could see them and various boats on the water, some manned by people who #petermadsen knew.

#PeterMadsen also recalls the near crash with another boat as not being dangerous, but rather that everyone waved at each other.

At about 20:00 #PeterMadsen was ready to take the submarine under water.

The attorneys are talking, #PeterMadsen is looking out of the window and we are waiting for the judges after the pause. All rise.

They are in the hull of the submarine. Answer: First, we talked about the submarine and then we did the interview. #kimwall #petermadsen #dkjura #submarinecase #submarinetrial

 

[ZaZara]

Thanks for that, ZaZara. I had forgotten he did say it was a goodbye, and it seems clearer in Robin's account than int EB...yet the text itself was ambiguous on that score.

What exactly does summary 3 mean?

IMHO she refers to the atmosphere in the courtroom.

This beggars belief:

Prosecutor: You are accused of murder. Answer: That is something you are saying.

:what: :what:

 

[Shiressleuth]

https://mobile.twitter.com/CaliforniaRobin/status/979010287000006658?p=v

Day 7 summary 1 and 2 were both in this one tweet.

 

[SATA]

The Copenhagen Post article describes Madsen's text to his wife as a suicide text. I didn't think that it was, or that PM described it as such, or that the prosecutor interpreted it as such - did you?
http://cphpost.dk/news/peter-madsen-trial-day-seven-recap-as-submariner-takes-the-stand-again.html
The timing of it was crucial, and the lack of any concern for Kim Wall's nearest and dearest compared with his own, I thought.

I think he was just stalling for time.

P.S. Just thought of something. Why didn´t his wife go to the police with that message when the search of the submarine had started?
Isn´t it clear from the message that he "is alone"? He says, "I", not "we".
Maybe not clear, but why did she not contact police with the info she had?

We heard about Kim Wall´s boyfriend contacting authorities - but not her. Why not?

I listened to the whole search that morning - everyone reported that there were two people missing. Everyone thought the Nautilus was in trouble, perhaps it had sunk, and we were all very afraid what had happened to Peter Madsen and the Swedish reporter (I assumed it was a man at that point).
Also, he writes he is on an "adventure" with Nautilus - if I were her, I would have thought that was useful information for the search team.

This is a little off.​

 

[Moll]

Yes. I'm inclined to think he made it out to be a goodbye/pre-suicide text afterwards when he was constructing his story.

 

[Moll]

A summary based on various accounts:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/danis...ding-journalist-wanted-to-make-a-snuff-film-w

EDIT
I don't know if the link is still working - it said the page was unavailable just now -, but it does take you to the website and the article can be accessed via their World News section.

 

[SATA]

Yes. I'm inclined to think he made it out to be a goodbye/pre-suicide text afterwards when he was constructing his story.

No, " I love you" - you´d have thought he would write that if it was a goodbye note. Nah, he was just buying time.

 

[Niner]

Here's another article - in English:

https://www.thelocal.se/20180329/after-seven-days-key-points-from-peter-madsens-trial


I've decided to NOT keep count of the witnesses.... :lol:

Thanks ALL for the updates!

 

[Niner]

Tuesday, April 3rd:
*Trial continues (@ 9:30am CET) (Day 8) - Denmark - Kim Isabel Wall (30) (Aug. 10, 2017) - Peter Langkjær Madsen (46) charged with premeditated murder in addition to dismemberment & sexual relations other than intercourse of a particularly dangerous nature & indecent handling of a corpse. Pled not guilty. Trial continues
April 3 - Witnesses (PM will continue to be questioned today by Defense)
April 4 - Documentation
April 5 - Reserve Day
April 23 - Procedures
April 25 - Verdict
37 witnesses will take the stand during case, 29 from the prosecution and 8 from the defense. 3/22: 6 witnesses; 3/23: 4 witnesses (+1 cancelled); 3/26: 9 witnesses; 3/27: 10 witnesses; 3/28: 4 witnesses + PM (33 witnesses so far/26 for Pros & 7 for Def.).