Details Emerge: Casey/Cindy Fight - Part 1

[OneLostGrl]

I am so, so sorry for your loss. Thanks for being there for you daughter...I applaud you!!

Me too! THAT is courage and strength. Parents like this are my heros!

 

[gardenhart]

No doubt! In that pic where she is smiling that big a$$ smile when the case first began- in her #82 shirt? I felt the same type thing then too, like the smile was aimed toward her mom.

Yes, perfect example. Or in the jail visit tapes when they ask her a question and she goes through all this rigamarole of talking to someone off screen and then turns back to answer with a grin.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I'm not too sure about that. In 2003 I had to take temporary guardianship of my best friend's 14 year old daughter while my friend was in the hospital. Her daughter had been under psychiatric care since she was about 4. (At age 3 her nanny told me she was a serial killer in the making--at age 3!) In any event, while I was caring for her her shrink told me she was a sociopath, told me that a drug named Abilify that was prescribed for schizophrenics has been known to help with some sociopathic tendencies and put her on it. Within two weeks EVERYONE noticed the difference. She wasn't as antisocial as she was before---but still showed sociopathic tendencies, and actually committed 4 felonies later that year--and again, was diagnosed as a sociopath, among other disorders.

The term as well as the diagnosis of "Sociopath" has not been listed in the DSM since the DSM IV came out in 1994. So I can only guess the doctor was not making an actual diagnosis, rather an observation, perhaps?

 

[Irish_Eyes]

I don't know....I just feel so sorry for Cindy...she's on my mind heavy tonight...
For those of you who don't know, the area in Ohio where the A's hailed from was hit hard in the 80's economically, and really never recovered...when Bruce Springsteen wrote "My Hometown" he could easily have been talking about the Youngstown, Ohio area...Cindy probably thought moving to Florida would be a new start for their family in a place with more opportunities...but from what I've read on here, George never really was able to find his stride in Florida employment wise. It must have been hard to support the family on her own all that time...then George gambles away all their money, that had to be tough, we know it was a strain on their marriage, then she finds out it's less expensive to keep him around than it is to divorce him...when KC gets pregnant on the heels of all this, I can almost understand her wanting to stay in fantasy land and not acknowledge it...she had probably worked so hard all those years for the dream that her children would be better off, and now KC's going to have a rough go as a single mother without even a high school diploma....and although I know she loved Caylee dearly, she was still another mouth to feed...then KC is not working anymore, and not only that, but she's stealing from them...any mom can't help blaming herself some..."where did I go wrong?"....her comments to her mom that Caylee is what is keeping her from hurting herself, I can see that...then KC takes Caylee away and that hurts, but not as much as finding out that Caylee has been missing for 31 days and nobody has been looking for her...Cindy may not have known everything that night, but she had to know at that point that KC wasn't blameless....Cindy is a mother....I'm sure it would have been as unthinkable for her as it would have been for any of us to not call LE if your child was missing...to not shout it to anyone and everyone at every opportunity on the off chance that someone might have seen or heard something that could help bring your child home...Then her daughter is in jail, and I'm sure she was worried about Casey too...that alone would be hard....then the public spectacle of it all...the media, the protesters, etc....the sleepless nights, the endless worrying...you know she saw every minute on the clock on the day of Caylee's birthday when Zanny was supposedly to bring her home....and didn't.....and then her worst nightmare confirmed...Caylee is dead....and she's been just blocks from the house this whole time...in a garbage bag, discarded like trash...and it had to be maddening to know she was that close and you couldn't find her, you couldn't save her....and she knows that this is where the neighborhood kids went, where Casey went as a girl....and she probably still thinks it was an accident, but I do believe she knows in her heart that Casey left Caylee in those dark and lonely woods....and what it must do to your soul to know your daughter is capable of such a thing....and capable of lying to your face and letting you hang on to your false hope for five months....and the details of the condition of your grandaughters tiny body are splashed across every newspaper and all the news broadcasts...every detail of your life is discussed by every talking head and the trial hasn't even started yet....

No, I won't judge CA...if she did obstruct justice then there are channels to deal with that. I think her denial has been just sheer self-preservation...My life hasn't been easy, but it hasn't been as hard as CA's has...It's pretty obvious GA and Casey have no respect for her...I hope LA is giving her the love and support she deserves....

 

[MsMacGyver]

I'm a big believer that actions speak louder than words. The fact that CA called the police speaks volumes to me. If CA really didn't believe that KC was capable of doing something or that CA's priorties were with her little Caylee I don't think she would have gone as far as she did in calling LE. Can any of us imagine how hard it must have been to turn your own daughter in. CA'a not stupid and seems to know her daughter very well. I'm sure she knew KC was lying. CA has made mistakes but let us not forget she was the one that called LE.

 

[zoey]

I'm a big believer that actions speak louder than words. The fact that CA called the police speaks volumes to me. If CA really didn't believe that KC was capable of doing something or that CA's priorties were with her little Caylee I don't think she would have gone as far as she did in calling LE. Can any of us imagine how hard it must have been to turn your own daughter in. CA'a not stupid and seems to know her daughter very well. I'm sure she knew KC was lying. CA has made mistakes but let us not forget she was the one that called LE.

I still think that the call was more like a double or triple dare...thinking perhaps if someone else was called then.....that whole thing was odd to me---I do believe ca was worried about Caylee at that point----I still don't think they thought it would go as far as it did...I don't think kc really thought thru what LE would do---heck she was thinking it was a "whim":waitasec:

 

[FIND'HER]

I think KC thought when CA called LE that they would show up and a report would be filed and that would be the end of it. She never figured that she would be behind bars for it. Because she would blame the nanny. But she holds the keys to this whole thing it up to her to come clean.

 

[zoey]

I agree with you, OneLostGrl. In my case, hindsight has nothing to do with it. My child didn't kill anyone, but she was going down a very bad path.
My oldest daughter was murdered when she was 18. Just a short year later, my next child started having 'issues'. For a while, I played the enabling game, mostly because I was terrified of losing another child. But I knew it was the wrong way to go, and even though it was one of the most difficult things I have ever done in my life, I refused to let my child walk all over me anymore. I was on the edge of a nervous breakdown so many times I lost count. There was no hindsight for me, no, every day was a horror, wondering if my child was going to end up dead.
So to you, Paddie, yes, I will judge. Looking the other way, covering up, pretending things are not as they seem, not standing your ground and forcing the issue, that is the easy path to take. I know, because I did walk it for a short time. But it was selfish, it was about me, and my child deserved better than that, and as the parent, it was my job to provide it. My daughter is doing very well now, and she has a great life. She is not on drugs, she is not an alcoholic, she is not homeless, etc. She has a good job, a great family, and she is very happy. On my part, it almost cost me my sanity and my marriage, but it was worth every minute of it to be where we are today. Had I continued on the road the A's chose, I know it would have ended tragically.
Lanie

Lanie: thanks for sharing...I do send my sympathies for the loss of your daughter but also give you major hugs for your position on your other daughter...
I believe so many parents now just don't get the word "no" or even the concept of what "tough love" truly is....the ones I know who have done the "tough love" approach always leave gaps for the kids to run thru---or my favorite currently is "well you can't be with them especially when they drive" (of course the car is in the parents name) the other one is "they are 18"--most of these are living at home...or of course "i don't want to be a b...."--trying to be friends with kids at times is to much---

 

[icherish]

I still think that the call was more like a double or triple dare...thinking perhaps if someone else was called then.....that whole thing was odd to me---I do believe ca was worried about Caylee at that point----I still don't think they thought it would go as far as it did...I don't think kc really thought thru what LE would do---heck she was thinking it was a "whim":waitasec:

ITA, Zoey- it started out as a game of sorts. Cindy called bluff in an attempt to force Casey to produce Caylee. Casey called her bluff in return- and eventually "folded" when she admitted she hadn't seen her in 31 days and started in with the Zanny story. It all blew up from there.

 

[hannahsnana]

I don't know....I just feel so sorry for Cindy...she's on my mind heavy tonight...
For those of you who don't know, the area in Ohio where the A's hailed from was hit hard in the 80's economically, and really never recovered...when Bruce Springsteen wrote "My Hometown" he could easily have been talking about the Youngstown, Ohio area...Cindy probably thought moving to Florida would be a new start for their family in a place with more opportunities...but from what I've read on here, George never really was able to find his stride in Florida employment wise. It must have been hard to support the family on her own all that time...then George gambles away all their money, that had to be tough, we know it was a strain on their marriage, then she finds out it's less expensive to keep him around than it is to divorce him...when KC gets pregnant on the heels of all this, I can almost understand her wanting to stay in fantasy land and not acknowledge it...she had probably worked so hard all those years for the dream that her children would be better off, and now KC's going to have a rough go as a single mother without even a high school diploma....and although I know she loved Caylee dearly, she was still another mouth to feed...then KC is not working anymore, and not only that, but she's stealing from them...any mom can't help blaming herself some..."where did I go wrong?"....her comments to her mom that Caylee is what is keeping her from hurting herself, I can see that...then KC takes Caylee away and that hurts, but not as much as finding out that Caylee has been missing for 31 days and nobody has been looking for her...Cindy may not have known everything that night, but she had to know at that point that KC wasn't blameless....Cindy is a mother....I'm sure it would have been as unthinkable for her as it would have been for any of us to not call LE if your child was missing...to not shout it to anyone and everyone at every opportunity on the off chance that someone might have seen or heard something that could help bring your child home...Then her daughter is in jail, and I'm sure she was worried about Casey too...that alone would be hard....then the public spectacle of it all...the media, the protesters, etc....the sleepless nights, the endless worrying...you know she saw every minute on the clock on the day of Caylee's birthday when Zanny was supposedly to bring her home....and didn't.....and then her worst nightmare confirmed...Caylee is dead....and she's been just blocks from the house this whole time...in a garbage bag, discarded like trash...and it had to be maddening to know she was that close and you couldn't find her, you couldn't save her....and she knows that this is where the neighborhood kids went, where Casey went as a girl....and she probably still thinks it was an accident, but I do believe she knows in her heart that Casey left Caylee in those dark and lonely woods....and what it must do to your soul to know your daughter is capable of such a thing....and capable of lying to your face and letting you hang on to your false hope for five months....and the details of the condition of your grandaughters tiny body are splashed across every newspaper and all the news broadcasts...every detail of your life is discussed by every talking head and the trial hasn't even started yet....

No, I won't judge CA...if she did obstruct justice then there are channels to deal with that. I think her denial has been just sheer self-preservation...My life hasn't been easy, but it hasn't been as hard as CA's has...It's pretty obvious GA and Casey have no respect for her...I hope LA is giving her the love and support she deserves....

I read your very expressive post and felt and understood everything you are saying about Cindy. None of us even have the power to 'judge' Cindy. What I come away with, however, is that if I were in Cindy's shoes I would go the opposite way; I would have to detach from Casey to self-preserve.

 

[SoCalSleuth]

I'm a big believer that actions speak louder than words. The fact that CA called the police speaks volumes to me. If CA really didn't believe that KC was capable of doing something or that CA's priorties were with her little Caylee I don't think she would have gone as far as she did in calling LE. Can any of us imagine how hard it must have been to turn your own daughter in. CA'a not stupid and seems to know her daughter very well. I'm sure she knew KC was lying. CA has made mistakes but let us not forget she was the one that called LE.

My opinion is that CA said all those wonderful things about Kc at the behest of JB. IE "KC was a great daughter and mother". If that were the case then why did CA choke her and what did CA tell her therapist that prompted the therapist to advise CA to kick KC out and move for custody of Caylee?????

 

[zoey]

My opinion is that CA said all those wonderful things about Kc at the behest of JB. IE "KC was a great daughter and mother". If that were the case then why did CA choke her and what did CA tell her therapist that prompted the therapist to advise CA to kick KC out and move for custody of Caylee?????

ca also denied any kind of behavior like that in the FBI interview...more or less painting the normal rockwell family.....

 

[passionflower]

If GA/CA would tell the truth about that fight........it would help LE so much!!!

 

[LLH]

Irish_Eyes

That was a very fair post. I too, have had mixed emotions about Cindy. Her actions toward the searchers and public has been less than kind, and at times bizarre. I believe she has been deliberatley misleading everyone. I also believe that she knew something was very wrong, even before the car was discovered, as per her myspace post about
"my Caylee is missing". One can only speculate about the inner turmoil she had been going through for quite some time, but from what we have heard, she definitely had her plate full of problems. I honestly believe that Caylee was her sunshine, and her renewal of hope. many, many people stay in bad marriages for their children/grandchildren.
Cindy seems to have been in a "catch 22" before Caylee disappeared. It is very hard to get a child taken away from the mother, even if you can prove neglect or abuse. In the videos I see a mothers eyes pleading for some hope to hang on to.. but knowing the truth in her heart. This is where I feel empathy( different than sympathy). I think that if she could get her hands on Casey at this point, Casey would be on the endangered and missing list herself. This is an angry family.

As a note: If the Anthonys have decieved LE... I hope they are prosecuted. Caylee deserved better.

 

[debs]

I still think that the call was more like a double or triple dare...thinking perhaps if someone else was called then.....that whole thing was odd to me---I do believe ca was worried about Caylee at that point----I still don't think they thought it would go as far as it did...I don't think kc really thought thru what LE would do---heck she was thinking it was a "whim":waitasec:

I have never believed that the "whim" was LE's, but rather Casey's belief that Cindy called LE on a whim. There is posted somewhere a call sheet outlining the number of calls in the past few years to the Anthony home. I believe calling 911 was how the Anthony's chose to "one-up" each other.

 

[Mermaid]

When listening to CA's repetition of the questions she had to ask the prisoner in order to get finally, "No, physical", I'm thinking how can two adults converse this way? What the hell was the point in letting it out one word at a time!! Why not just say I'm afraid of physical harm to my family. Constantly indulging this "Let's Play Clue" game is way out beyond madness. Both the police and the FBI made it clear to CA that it is merely a deceiver's pathetic strategem and that the clues have zero value. And that, if by some telepathy Cindy solved what The Great Wizard KC put out for her, in no way would it protect any perpetrator or accede to his wishes. But he or she would be immediately seized and the child brought home only with months lost.

Where I foresee worse problems for Cindy is in her description of the events of June 15 night and the next morning. Those are hours truly crucial to this case and if she is dissembling to defend KC, that is not legally justified and will be serious material perjury. Prosecutor LDB tore at Cindy on the stand in July; she or her proxy will go further at Cindy's future appearance.

I felt the same way too. I remember seeing Cindy being interviewed by someone (so many interviews at this point, I can't remember who) and Cindy said something like "well I interpreted that to mean..." I felt like shaking her til her head rolled. Why on earth should a discussion with your own child about her missing child have to be reduced to "interpretation"?? DEMAND A STRAIGHT ANSWER. QUIT PUSSYFOOTING AROUND. A CHILD'S LIFE WAS AT STAKE.

This is one of the most dysfunctional families I've ever heard of.

 

[Boots-OK]

This, as always, is my opinion only.

Watching/listening to the NG tapes of KC's interview with LE - helped me arrive at this conclusion: KC was not fearful of CA or anyone else for that matter. She did not fear CA's reaction to Caylee's death. She knew that CA needed her as much, or more so, than she needed CA. CA needed the absolute control over every one and everything in her life and would "adjust" and do whatever necessary to maintain that control.

KC didn't panic or act out of fear after "accidentally" killing her daughter. Why would she fear CA's reaction? KC would manipulate the situation and lie successfully, as she's always done, CA would support her and that would be that. Nothing to fear - it's a beautiful life - just a different scene in what has always been a family of dysfunction, conflict and drama. KC could handle it and she knew CA would handle it too.

Yes, the 911 call placed by CA, was just another dramatic twist - a game of who's the toughest, etc. KC wasn't worried - she knew she was the queen of scheme - and could handle this, too. This escalation probably gave KC an extreme rush - a new and exhilarating challenge to show just how superior she was to CA, LE, and anyone else involved.

CA had always controlled every situation and didn't realize that she couldn't take back control once she made the 911 call. But, she certainly worked hard at it didn't she?

Listen to the LE interview tapes with KC again and listen for the initial little pause after each question and then the meaningless "fill in" words she uses while her mind is searching for the best lie. She isn't a novice liar and didn't just start doing this. She has had many years of practice.

I had really wanted to think Caylee's death was accidental; however, I don't believe that any more after hearing the tapes again.

Even if Cindy did choke KC - that would only make her angrier - not fearful. This anger and jealousy resulted in little Caylee's death. The ultimate "I'll show you" and so very sad.

 

[kageykaren]

My opinion only is that when KC stated so forthrightly that she was petrified of CA was one of our first clues that CA was going to be the first person KC directs blame at. Watching her jailhouse videos shows she wasn't petrified. That little tidbit of info given by KC was for LE's benifit to distract them from asking her anymore why she didn't call LE when her daughter was first missing. It appears she was setting mom up at the beginning to take some responsibilty for whatever might have happened.

 

[Boots-OK]

My opinion only is that when KC stated so forthrightly that she was petrified of CA was one of our first clues that CA was going to be the first person KC directs blame at. Watching her jailhouse videos shows she wasn't petrified. That little tidbit of info given by KC was for LE's benifit to distract them from asking her anymore why she didn't call LE when her daughter was first missing. It appears she was setting mom up at the beginning to take some responsibilty for whatever might have happened.

I was taken by the way she kept talking about "Zani" - to me it sounded as if she were describing CA. IMHO

 

[TxRose]

ITA, Zoey- it started out as a game of sorts. Cindy called bluff in an attempt to force Casey to produce Caylee. Casey called her bluff in return- and eventually "folded" when she admitted she hadn't seen her in 31 days and started in with the Zanny story. It all blew up from there.

I agree as well. I think Cindy thought Casey was merely hiding Caylee and not letting her see her grandchild. Perhaps because of the fight. I don't think it ever crossed her mind that Casey would be arrested - she thought it would force Casey to take her to where Caylee was staying and that's it. But as soon as Casey pulled out the kidnapped story...Cindy fell apart. That is why I believe she had no prior knowledge of what had happened to Caylee. But she immediately knew there was the potential that something terrible had happened to Caylee...and that Casey was in deep trouble. That is when she started back-tracking and covering for her daughter.