Did JonBenet Accidentally Kill Herself?

[BlueCrab]

The first question would be whether it is even remotely plausible that GJ solved case along BDI lines given Alex Hunter deposition about Burke (and companion remarks on Larry King) and given Mary Keenan's actions and Judge Carnes' opinion? That is, even if it is possible to imagine 1 high public official uttering point-blank lies to the public, does it seem plausible that 3 completely independent public officials would coordinate lies in this fashion? It seems to me that such officials would be risking rather substantial legal or professional misconduct penalties for behaving in such a fashion. If BlueCrab's theory is correct, it would make far more sense that they deceptions/misdirection by public officials would take the form of things NOT said rather than flat-out lies.

DocWatson,

Please note that NONE of the public officials you mention in your above post will come flat-out and say Burke has been cleared. They just beat around the bush with obfuscated statements. It appears they are trying to prevent being caught in lies to the public when the truth finally emerges some day.

It's reasonable to assume the grand jury solved the crime because, since October of 1999 when the GJ adjourned after 13 months of investigating, the behaviors of all public officials have been non-commital in regard to Burke's innocence -- just garbled statements like Hunter's fraudulent affidavit (written by Lin Wood) of October 12, 2000.

IMO Burke Ramsey, and likely **** ***** too, were somehow involved in the death of JonBenet. Otherwise there wouldn't be a need for the Ramseys' obvious coverup.

It could have been anything from a premeditated torture and murder, down to JonBenet accidentally asphyxiating herself while the children were experimenting with AEA. In any event, the Colorado Children's Code would come into play, no names could be revealed, and the result would be the obfuscated statements from Boulder's public officials we hear to this day.

JMO

 

[sissi]

sissi has a problem with that, doesn't she?

Yep, I do!

If we have no other "vested" interest in this case ,other than hoping "he's/she's" caught so as no other child be murdered, then why are so many sticking with blaming the mom or the brother? You guys don't really think they will strike again ,do ya?

 

[BlueCrab]

DocWatson,

In regard to my post #61 above, I want to remind you that all three people you mention -- Hunter, Keenan, and Carnes -- would come under the court's gag order and the Colorado Children's Code. It would be a felony and they could be fined, go to jail, and lose their jobs as convicted felons if they reveal what they know.

They are forced to talk in convoluted terms and muzzle the truth to keep from revealing the names of the juveniles. If they stayed quiet and implied they can't talk about the names, it would automatically tell the public and the press that children are involved as perps. It's not a conspiracy among them; its just that they are trying to not violate a tough law that shields the identity of children involved in a major crime.

JMO

 

[TisHerself]

Hi! I never read before that there were signs of sexual abuse that you would find in a teenager. If that's true I can only think that JonBenet must have suffered she was only 6 yrs old. I don't care if she was 6 going on 16 the fact of the matter is she wasn't 16.

 

[Camper]

DocWatson,

In regard to my post #61 above, I want to remind you that all three people you mention -- Hunter, Keenan, and Carnes -- would come under the court's gag order and the Colorado Children's Code. It would be a felony and they could be fined, go to jail, and lose their jobs as convicted felons if they reveal what they know.

They are forced to talk in convoluted terms and muzzle the truth to keep from revealing the names of the juveniles. If they stayed quiet and implied they can't talk about the names, it would automatically tell the public and the press that children are involved as perps. It's not a conspiracy among them; its just that they are trying to not violate a tough law that shields the identity of children involved in a major crime.

JMO

--------------IF IF IF it is as we LONGtime sleuthers of this case, suspect, HOW could LE have better handled the case ?, given the legal constraints about 'outing' 'underage' participants. The 'law' as stated, gives the legal rules, but not the 'HOW TO's' of such a situation to better protect the underaged list of suspects.

A family tragedy, certainly, IF we are correct. I am reminded of the picture of JAR sitting in sadness, by JonBenets grave. Reminded also of his comment that the killer should have forgiveness, during an interview, or do I err on that remembrance?

Still wonderment on just who was in the 'missing' Christmas video; why was legal representation so quickly done for the family in GA; the airtight alibis confirmed by 'family and close friends for JAR. My list of wonderments is long.



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[BlueCrab]

HOW could LE have better handled the case ?, given the legal constraints about 'outing' 'underage' participants. The 'law' as stated, gives the legal rules, but not the 'HOW TO's' of such a situation to better protect the underaged list of suspects.

Camper,

If the BDI theory is close to being correct, or if JonBenet accidentally asphyxiated herself while she and Burke were experimenting with AEA, there's not much of anything that LE has done that could be done differently. IMO Boulder authorities are caught in a catch 22 situation by the Colorado Children's Code. They are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

To protect the identities of the children, everything is under seal and may never be revealed during our lifetime. Moreover, they are legally able to lie about it.

COLORADO CHILDREN'S CODE (under age 18):

"Persons who have had their juvenile records sealed may lawfully and properly reply that no such records exist. However, the record is still available to the district attorney, law enforcement, the courts, and the department of human services. Government agencies cannot show the records to anyone without an order from the court."

JMO

 

[Camper]

Another thought has crossed my mind. Since Ramsey's have sued everyone in sight who voiced words that Burke was guilty, one would think 'perhaps' that Burke was NOT the child in the home who did anything that directly contributed to JonBenets death.

So that said, WHO did it, and why the elaborate cover up, or ANY coverup at all for that matter. My hed still thinks someone was shuttled outta Dodge on that late night.

How would you chaulk up the happening of that night and explain it to the media, IF IF there had been no coverup? Why not just treat it like a murder, and point fingers at a drooling perp, who walks through locked doors, and that was NEVER to be found. This of course would cause chaos in the neighborhood, and a 'hold your children close' atmosphere.

I remember a case about 40 years ago. We had gone to Yellowstone on vacation. While there I read in the paper about a little girl who went missing, about 8 years old.

Days passed and I kept up on the case in the newspaper. A week or so later, her body was found covered over in a storage shed on a property close by. A little neighbor boy was found to have done it. I don't remember that the little boys name was used, but everyone in the neighborhood would have known who it was.

BlueCrab, how long has the law been in place that you posted above?

I am guessing it came into play some years after the timeline I mention above on our trip.



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[BlueCrab]

BlueCrab, how long has the law been in place that you posted above?

Camper,

The Colorado Children's Code has been in effect since 1967.

JMO

 

[Camper]

Thank you Blue Crab.




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[KATKAT19691]

I was wondering have you ever read any of the infomation that is provided in the link below? I was just wanting to get your thoughts on weather you feel this might be a poss. Or is this just another Ramsey ploy. Although I do not see him being pro ramsey, so I wanted to see what the sleuthers think! I love all of ya'll input! Ya'll have been around and have read way more stuff than I, so I like to get your thoughts.
So everyone if you will, will you go read the art. written there let me know what you think of them. Also, if anyone has read the book what do you think
Some great questions were asked there. Sissi will love this lol

IMO
Kat

http://www.vote.org/ramsey/

 

[BlueCrab]

I was wondering have you ever read any of the infomation that is provided in the link below? I was just wanting to get your thoughts on weather you feel this might be a poss. Or is this just another Ramsey ploy. Although I do not see him being pro ramsey, so I wanted to see what the sleuthers think! I love all of ya'll input! Ya'll have been around and have read way more stuff than I, so I like to get your thoughts.
So everyone if you will, will you go read the art. written there let me know what you think of them. Also, if anyone has read the book what do you think
Some great questions were asked there. Sissi will love this lol

IMO
Kat

http://www.vote.org/ramsey/

Kat,

Yes, I have read some of this stuff in past years. There's little doubt in my mind that organized pedophile activity is alive and well in Boulder, as in just about every town, but whether it's involved in the JonBenet case is the unanswered question. And whether it involves Boulder higher ups is another unanswered question.

My inclination is to say no, because the JonBenet case was covered closely by the world's press and SOMEONE would have leaked a credible story with credible evidence that it was true. They didn't. There was nothing but theories and innuendoes.

JMO

 

[sissi]

Thanks KATKAT! Yep ,I am aware, and aware as well of the last sentence in Singular's book, clearly the BPD didn't want to go down that road. A mistake? Very likely,IMO!

http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics and History/JonBenet_pedophiles_in_boulder.htm

Take a peek at this, and dig around a bit, this was a real effort!

 

[Nehemiah]

--------------Nehemiah, Midnite is a legal personage who came on line shortly after Laci disappeared. We know not if he/she is an attorney, a judge or a law professort, but well steeped in legal knowledge and has been a goldmine for us following Laci case, in answering legal questions that we have had. Here is a link to the sixth continued thread of questions. There were five other lengthy threads as well, should be able to find the first one and the others by searching the archives.

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15703&goto=newpost This link will dump you into the mid part of Part VI.

I am going to try and get him/her to come over to the JonBenet forum, when we are finished with the Laci case.

Be thinking up questions for him/her.

I can think of one right off the bat. "What legal recourse should a policeman have when the DA ties his hands from getting records valuable to ongoing murder investigation?"

Why don't you start a separate thread on this topic and we can all post questions for him/her? Very interesting indeed.

 

[DocWatson]

Camper,

To protect the identities of the children, everything is under seal and may never be revealed during our lifetime. Moreover, they are legally able to lie about it.

COLORADO CHILDREN'S CODE (under age 18):

"Persons who have had their juvenile records sealed may lawfully and properly reply that no such records exist. However, the record is still available to the district attorney, law enforcement, the courts, and the department of human services. Government agencies cannot show the records to anyone without an order from the court."

JMO

BlueCrab,
Cases go unsolved all the time. Nothing in the Code obligates these individuals to point-blank lie and your implying otherwise is grossly misleading. Indeed, if you read carefully, you'll see that the Code says nothing about LE lying at all: it states that the persons who had their records sealed may properly claim that no such records exist. Even if we imagine that this language extends to LE (and there is no reason we should: the law takes truth-telling very seriously since the integrity of the system rests so heavily upon it), the circumstances under which the Code opens the possibility of lying are very limited: one may properly assert that no records exist.

In contrast, your theory has some of the principal LE officers in this case engaged in repeated point-blank fabrications all allegedly in the service of this cover-up. In response to Larry King, Hunter wasn't obliged to lie about Burke. He could have easily dodged the question entirely by using the standard obfuscations: "since the case is still under investigation, I am not permitted to discuss that" etc. And he CERTAINLY wasn't obliged to lie in a sworn affidavit--an affidavit he was not at all hesitant to reword to his tastes (i.e., ruling out the idea that he was bullied into making false statements by Lin Wood).

Judges are busy people. The Colorado statute certainly didn't obligate Judge Carnes to write an extremely lengthy point-by-point argument in favor of an IDI theory. It makes no sense for Mary Kane to re-open a case already known to have been solved. In all these cases, there is a far simpler strategy for dealing with the alleged "fact" of the GJ having solved the case: SAY NOTHING! The fact that 3 LE officials in a position to know far more about the case than you or me all elected to make statements that strongly refute BDI claims suggests to me that the BDI theory doesn't hold water.

The reason 75% of the people here don't buy BDI theories is that they are so weakly supported by evidence. It's time to throw in the towel, BC. Find a theory that fits the facts.

 

[sissi]

I have to agree with Doc Watson, but where does that leave us with the rest of our suspects? We can safely say that the grand jury, did not have evidence to support any Ramsey as a suspect? They are not suspects!
However,then we must follow the tracks of the investigative team who have eliminated suspects, or can we choose ,(which I would prefer) not to believe the BPD ever had an investigation. We must remember the political pressure Hunter was under when he "cleared" the Whites, saying, okay we cleared them ,one day we may have to "unclear" them. So what does any of this really mean? I see DW clearly the grandjury did not FIND anything, but at what level should we stop trusting information? It would seem accurate to assume the state can not be caught up in outright lies, however, aren't the DA and the police part of the same system?

 

[BlueCrab]

,

Even if we imagine that this language extends to LE (and there is no reason we should: the law takes truth-telling very seriously since the integrity of the system rests so heavily upon it), the circumstances under which the Code opens the possibility of lying are very limited: one may properly assert that no records exist.

DocWatson,

Please read the Colorado Children's Code again. It clearly states that NO ONE in government can release information under seal without an order from the court. No one has an order from the court to release the truth about what really happened.

Incidentally, Mary Keenan did not re-open the JonBenet murder investigation.
Keenan has NO MONEY to carry on an active investigation -- she has just normal maintenance funds to carry out routine responses to questions, as is standard with any unsolved murder. There is no active investigation. Follow the money Dr. Watson. It's elementary.

JMO

JMO

 

[Camper]

Oh wizened ones, I am an illiterate on the law as far as abuse of a dead person. WHO would have delivered the head crushing blow and why, IF JonBenet was ALREADY dead? Doc Watson, Blue Crab, anyone jump in.

IF IF IF the scream preceded or happened after the stun gun, everyone in the house should have been awakened and scrambled to the scene. Why the head crushing blow? Would young boys have the presence of mind to deliver a head blow after the fact, fact being that JonBenet was already dead from the stun gun - (excuse me, no legal info that confirms a stun gun was used.)

This question bothers me, since our phonograph needle is sorta stuck on the Childrens code legalities.

I am still fond of my own thoughts that JonBenet was hit on the head, perhaps with 'the' familiar golf club, and in the throws of convulsions, pressure was used on the carroted artery area of her neck, which is used by the medical profession to stop convulsions. There is a massive sign on stage left of JonBenets neck that could be indicative of massive life saving pressure having been used in that precise area. That being unsuccessful 'then' PERHAPS a stun gun was used to kill her, to put her out of her misery.

Wild and wooly scenario, but murder is not an act of kindness.

Do please remember that the young brother accidentally stuck JonBenet in the head with a golf club, in Michigan, requiring medical attention.



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[BlueCrab]

Do please remember that the young brother accidentally stuck JonBenet in the head with a golf club, in Michigan, requiring medical attention.

Camper,

And please remember that Burke not only struck JonBenet in the face with that golf club, but he also struck her on the leg during that same episode. TWO hits with a golf club, and the Ramseys say it was an "accident". Man, that must have been one helluva swing.

JMO

 

[sissi]

I thought Burke was only six when this happened,and that it was an accident? The children were not responsible, at age three Jonbenet should have been out of the line of fire, at age six Burke should have had his swing supervised. Just toss it up to someone being careless, not Patsy, not John, this was during the time of Patsy's being very ill, maybe it happened on a babysitter's time?
Has anyone ever considered it being two perps? One killed and insisted the other hit her over the head as to make them equally guilty?
Camper, you probably know I think it was children of a local nurse, so yes that carotid theory of yours fits right into mine

 

[Camper]

asleep in the control booth, when that 'accident' happened,

You donut let a six year old have a 'real' golf club to "play' with when there is a 3 year old nearby.

Blue Crab, I had forgotten about the leg as well. Burke would be about 20 years old now, wonder if he plays golf?

Or for that matter, wonder if JAR plays golf, perhaps that is not a family tradition, like making memorable Christmas videos.

Just curious since JR wanted his golf clubs, when JonBenet was still undergoing autopsy. Correct me if I err on that remembrance.



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