Did JonBenet Have A Nosebleed The Night She Died?

[Nehemiah]

I agree. I am starting more and more to think that a scarf played a part in her strangulation...somewhere down the line. In one of PR interviews, she was asked a ton of questions about scarves in the home...who owned them, were they just lying around the house...etc. I thought that was odd...unless, the investigators believe that a scarf could have played a part in her murder.

Camper has posted for years her thoughts about a scarf being involved. Camper, where are you?

 

[Nehemiah]

thx,sounds like he's wondering why she was buried with it,and how important it was to her.

Either that, or maybe he was wondering about the fibers found in her bed...like they could have come from a stuffed animal or toy?

I was listening to an old show last night of Peter Boyles where he was interviewing Jeff Merrick and former DA Norm Early. It was said that the mucous under/around JB's nose area was all UNDER the tape, thus indicating to LE that there was staging.

 

[JMO8778]

I can't imagine Patsy would have taken JB to the doctor so many times (JB was also treated for vaginitis) if she herself had been abusing her, or knew she was being abused by John. It doesn't add up.

But,PR avoided specialists...a Dr. who could better help her with JB's soiling and bedwetting problem.She stuck with Dr Beuf,whom,IMO,likely knew something was amiss and turned his head the other way.
Some of his explanations don't make any sense...like vaginitis due to bubble baths.I think he was treating the problems, but ignoring their cause.(Didn't he have a somewhat unethical background b/f coming to Boulder?)
And the thing that got me the most about him is when he sided and conspired with JR, when LE asked them to come down to the police station and give statements.He stated that PR couldn't walk and was in no condition to do so..that certainly hasn't stopped LE before,when parents are suspects.(or even from arresting them).He should have done the right thing,and *empowered her,by encouraging her to go down to the station and do the best she could to help.Can't walk???Put her in a wheelchair.He *knew better !! He should have gotten an infraction on his medical license for that,IMO.

 

[Toltec]

Camper has posted for years her thoughts about a scarf being involved. Camper, where are you?

I'm not Camper...but I do recall the Investigators asking Patsy to look at a picture of a scarf on the wet-bar. She said she had given away scarves to the men who attended the christmas party on the 23d. The scarf was not there when police searched the home....so where did it go?

 

[JMO8778]

I'm not Camper...but I do recall the Investigators asking Patsy to look at a picture of a scarf on the wet-bar. She said she had given away scarves to the men who attended the christmas party on the 23d. The scarf was not there when police searched the home....so where did it go?

prolly out the door in PP's raid of the house , would be my best guess.

 

[Ames]

prolly out the door in PP's raid of the house , would be my best guess.

Or into the casket with JB.

 

[JMO8778]

Or into the casket with JB.

yes,and it makes sense that she could have been strangled with a scarf,since the shirt she was wearing the night b/f was the same one she was found dead in.If the shirt collar was used to strangle her,then it would have been all twisted and stretched..and they likely would have changed her into something else for the final staging.
I think UK is right about the red shirt;I think it was used for a prior staging on her bed,and that's why PR originally stated she went to bed in the red shirt.Plus,I'm guessing there were some fibers from it found in her bed.

 

[Ames]

yes,and it makes sense that she could have been strangled with a scarf,since the shirt she was wearing the night b/f was the same one she was found dead in.If the shirt collar was used to strangle her,then it would have been all twisted and stretched..and they likely would have changed her into something else for the final staging.
I think UK is right about the red shirt;I think it was used for a prior staging on her bed,and that's why PR originally stated she went to bed in the red shirt.Plus,I'm guessing there were some fibers from it found in her bed.

JB's arms were up and over her, when her body was found. When you change a child's shirt, their arms go up, and the shirt comes off, or goes on. I also agree with UK, I believe that the red shirt was used for prior staging too. I believe that they pulled it off of her the way that I described above, and then put the other one on the same way, at this time rigormortis could have started to set in, thats why her arms were found the way that they were...and the wrists were tied so far apart from each other. I don't believe that they COULD move her arms or hands to position them behind her back, or in front of her. I believe this was the initial way that her arms was placed, in order to get her red shirt off, and the other shirt on. Patsy wouldn't have said that she went to bed in the red shirt, if she didn't. That was a slip up, on Patsy's part.

 

[JMO8778]

JB's arms were up and over her, when her body was found. When you change a child's shirt, their arms go up, and the shirt comes off, or goes on. I also agree with UK, I believe that the red shirt was used for prior staging too. I believe that they pulled it off of her the way that I described above, and then put the other one on the same way, at this time rigormortis could have started to set in, thats why her arms were found the way that they were...and the wrists were tied so far apart from each other. I don't believe that they COULD move her arms or hands to position them behind her back, or in front of her. I believe this was the initial way that her arms was placed, in order to get her red shirt off, and the other shirt on. Patsy wouldn't have said that she went to bed in the red shirt, if she didn't. That was a slip up, on Patsy's part.

I totally agree.Another one of her slips.
There must have been a period of time bet. the 2 stagings.I'm guessing possibly the RN was drafted and written then.And then when they went back to change her clothes,the rigor had set in.

 

[Ames]

I totally agree.Another one of her slips.
There must have been a period of time bet. the 2 stagings.I'm guessing possibly the RN was drafted and written then.And then when they went back to change her clothes,the rigor had set in.

That's what I am thinking too. And, as I said before, I do believe that this is the reason for her arms being in the position that they were found in, when her body was found...and there was so much cord between her wrists...rigormortis had started setting, an thats as close as they could get her arms together. Since they took so much time and planned the whole thing to look like an intruder, wiping down, the paintbrush, etc., I believe that if they could have pulled her arms together so that her wrists met, then they would have. What kind of intruder restrains a person with that much cord between the wrists?

 

[Toltec]

But why change the shirt? I haven't heard of any evidence found in the red turtleneck such as blood, fibers, etc..

Bloody nose...could there be blood on the red turtleneck we do not know of?

If JonBenet was strangled first...then why the head blow? I'll tell you why...

Finding a dead girl with only visible trauma being sexual assault would mean that the Ramseys would be taken to headquarters immediately and interrogated. They had to stage the strangulation to get the police to believe some intruder came in and molested and strangled her.

Whether she was strangled with a scarf, shirt, nintendo64 controller, etc...is anyones guess.

 

[JMO8778]

But why change the shirt? I haven't heard of any evidence found in the red turtleneck such as blood, fibers, etc..

Bloody nose...could there be blood on the red turtleneck we do not know of?

If JonBenet was strangled first...then why the head blow? I'll tell you why...

Finding a dead girl with only visible trauma being sexual assault would mean that the Ramseys would be taken to headquarters immediately and interrogated. They had to stage the strangulation to get the police to believe some intruder came in and molested and strangled her.

Whether she was strangled with a scarf, shirt, nintendo64 controller, etc...is anyones guess.

I don't know about the shirt.I'm guessing they had in mind just what they likely did..change her back to her white shirt and say she went straight to bed from the car.Only PR slipped up when she said she went to bed in the red shirt,I think b/c she rem. seeing her staged that way first.
PR did say she handwashed a jumpsuit of JB's that morning,so I wonder what evidence she washed out?

 

[Ames]

Either that, or maybe he was wondering about the fibers found in her bed...like they could have come from a stuffed animal or toy?

I was listening to an old show last night of Peter Boyles where he was interviewing Jeff Merrick and former DA Norm Early. It was said that the mucous under/around JB's nose area was all UNDER the tape, thus indicating to LE that there was staging.

Very interesting indeed. Why aren't these things ever looked into...why are they given JR a pass? I guess that his money is STILL talking.

 

[Ames]

But why change the shirt? I haven't heard of any evidence found in the red turtleneck such as blood, fibers, etc..

Bloody nose...could there be blood on the red turtleneck we do not know of?

Possibly, I don't know why she changed her shirt, I just believe that she did. MY THEORY is that she wore it to bed, and it got wet when JB wet the bed that night, which I believe that she did.

If JonBenet was strangled first...then why the head blow? I'll tell you why...

But, she wasn't strangled first, there are no marks on her neck where she tried to claw at the cord, nor was her own skin, from the neck...under her nails. She would have fought o remove that cord, IF she had of been alive and conscious. I believe the head wound came first.

Finding a dead girl with only visible trauma being sexual assault would mean that the Ramseys would be taken to headquarters immediately and interrogated. They had to stage the strangulation to get the police to believe some intruder came in and molested and strangled her.

Or finding a dead girl with only visible trauma being sexual assault, AND A HEAD WOUND...would mean that that Ramsey's would be taken to headquarters immediately and interrogated. Thats why they staged the body with a garotte. To give it a more exotic asphyxiation theme....

 

[JMO8778]

Either that, or maybe he was wondering about the fibers found in her bed...like they could have come from a stuffed animal or toy?

I was listening to an old show last night of Peter Boyles where he was interviewing Jeff Merrick and former DA Norm Early. It was said that the mucous under/around JB's nose area was all UNDER the tape, thus indicating to LE that there was staging.

where can I find that?the link from wikipedia didn't work for me,and I wanted to hear it again.thx.

 

[UKGuy]

But why change the shirt? I haven't heard of any evidence found in the red turtleneck such as blood, fibers, etc..

Bloody nose...could there be blood on the red turtleneck we do not know of?

If JonBenet was strangled first...then why the head blow? I'll tell you why...

Finding a dead girl with only visible trauma being sexual assault would mean that the Ramseys would be taken to headquarters immediately and interrogated. They had to stage the strangulation to get the police to believe some intruder came in and molested and strangled her.

Whether she was strangled with a scarf, shirt, nintendo64 controller, etc...is anyones guess.

Toltec,

But not if she had been sexually assaulted , which is what this case is all about, hiding the historical molestation of JonBenet!

.

 

[Toltec]

I don't know about the shirt.I'm guessing they had in mind just what they likely did..change her back to her white shirt and say she went straight to bed from the car.Only PR slipped up when she said she went to bed in the red shirt,I think b/c she rem. seeing her staged that way first.
PR did say she handwashed a jumpsuit of JB's that morning,so I wonder what evidence she washed out?

The red jumpsuit is the one worn by JonBenet at her last pageant. All the children wore the same jumpsuits.

 

[rashomon]

That's what I am thinking too. And, as I said before, I do believe that this is the reason for her arms being in the position that they were found in, when her body was found...and there was so much cord between her wrists...rigormortis had started setting, an thats as close as they could get her arms together. Since they took so much time and planned the whole thing to look like an intruder, wiping down, the paintbrush, etc., I believe that if they could have pulled her arms together so that her wrists met, then they would have. What kind of intruder restrains a person with that much cord between the wrists?

JB was still alive (although probably already unconscious) when the cord was put around her neck (forensic evidence: the petechiae around the neck), and I would place the wrist tying close to that in the time line. I can't imagine that the Ramseys, after applying the neck ligature, then waited for five hours or so until rigor set in before tying the wrists.
The large space between the wrist ligatures, the one too big loop which came off later and the other loop which was tied loosely on top of the sleeve suggests someoene who didn't have the slightest idea in terms of creating a realistic-looking kidnapping scenario. A stager who thought that randomly tying and winding some cord between the wrists would look convincing enough. jmpo.

 

[JMO8778]

JB was still alive (although probably already unconscious) when the cord was put around her neck (forensic evidence: the petechiae around the neck), and I would place the wrist tying close to that in the time line. I can't imagine that the Ramseys, after applying the neck ligature, then waited for five hours or so until rigor set in before tying the wrists.

why were her arms over her head,and do you think they changed her shirt at some point?

 

[Ames]

why were her arms over her head,and do you think they changed her shirt at some point?

That would be my question too. Why not tie her wrists in front of her at the waist, or behind her back....as anyone would have expected them to be IF an intruder had of actually killed her....which he didn't. The arms up and over and loosely tied a long distance (what was it? 15 inches or so?) away from each other, doesn't exactly scream "an intruder did it".