Did JonBenet Have A Nosebleed The Night She Died?

  • #61
Why would the person who staged the crime scene wipe JonBenet's bottom but not even bother to clean her face at all? It makes me think if the wiping was due to caring, then her face would have been cleaned off as well. So what was the purpose of wiping her?

I believe her nose bled, and that her face WAS wiped off. The dried mucous on JB's face, was either overlooked, because it wasn't noticable, or it happened after her face was wiped...with what I think probably, was an alcohol swab.
 
  • #62
  • #63
Why would the person who staged the crime scene wipe JonBenet's bottom but not even bother to clean her face at all? It makes me think if the wiping was due to caring, then her face would have been cleaned off as well. So what was the purpose of wiping her?

Nuisanceposter,

Thats a leading question, I hope your not disresepecting me ...

I speculate the purpose in wiping JonBenet down was to remove any visible signs of a sexual assault, since they wanted time to gather their passports, arrange a flight and flee interstate .

Consider the contrast, its the sexual assault that is hidden not the alleged toilet accident e.g. urine-soaked longjohns.


.
 
  • #64
I believe her nose bled, and that her face WAS wiped off. The dried mucous on JB's face, was either overlooked, because it wasn't noticable, or it happened after her face was wiped...with what I think probably, was an alcohol swab.

Ames,

You may be correct, it would not surprise me to have it confirmed that JonBenet was bleeding due to her head injury?

Then again why remove it, what is the motive, if they intend to hang the blame on some kidnapper?

.
 
  • #65
Nuisanceposter,

Thats a leading question, I hope your not disresepecting me ...

I speculate the purpose in wiping JonBenet down was to remove any visible signs of a sexual assault, since they wanted time to gather their passports, arrange a flight and flee interstate .

Consider the contrast, its the sexual assault that is hidden not the alleged toilet accident e.g. urine-soaked longjohns.


.

What?
 
  • #66
VEERRYYYY interesting....thanks for posting the link. Yep, I believe more than ever that the scarf that JB is buried with, had something to do with her murder.

esp. since PR said in DOI that it was NEW...the one JR put in the casket..meaning,IMO..it likely wasn't.
 
  • #67
I believe her nose bled, and that her face WAS wiped off. The dried mucous on JB's face, was either overlooked, because it wasn't noticable, or it happened after her face was wiped...with what I think probably, was an alcohol swab.


me too,I think that does sound very likely.
 
  • #68
Then again why remove it, what is the motive, if they intend to hang the blame on some kidnapper?

.

it seems they wanted the ligature strangling to be what was noticed the most? with her hair rearranged,it seems they were trying to hide the head injury.
 
  • #69
You have the scarf removed....you have Patsy wipe her down...and you ask why??

My belief is that JonBenet had been wiped down because she was soiled...

I do not think a scarf played a role in JonBenet's death...but I would not rule out a nintendo controller.
 
  • #70
You have the scarf removed....you have Patsy wipe her down...and you ask why??

My belief is that JonBenet had been wiped down because she was soiled...

there's no proof PR wiped her down..it was JR's shirt fibers found in her crotch area.that doesn't sound like soiling to me.
 
  • #71
Nuisanceposter,

Thats a leading question, I hope your not disresepecting me ...

I speculate the purpose in wiping JonBenet down was to remove any visible signs of a sexual assault, since they wanted time to gather their passports, arrange a flight and flee interstate .

Consider the contrast, its the sexual assault that is hidden not the alleged toilet accident e.g. urine-soaked longjohns.


.

Oh, I definitely meant no disrespect to you, UKGuy. The question of why her bottom was wiped but not her face has been bothering me since Jayelles pointed out it looked like JonBenet had been crying due to her face being a bit messy.

I never really looked all that closely at JonBenet's face in the autopsy photos other than to examine the wounds because it bothers me to see her face in death. I'd rather picture her as the smiling happy girl in family photos.

So I began to wonder...if the reason she was wiped was due to the staging being done by someone who cared for her, as I had been thinking, then why didn't that caring extend to making sure her face was cleaned off as well?

As long as I've been following this case, I keep coming up with new questions as different things get discussed. This is just another one of those questions - you would think that the person who applied the tape to her face would have noticed that she'd had a runny nose (if not a nosebleed - that raises even more questions in my mind) and had been crying, and if that person cleaned her off below the waist out of concern or what have you, then that person would have wanted her to have a clean face also. I don't know - anyway, I was just thinking out loud. Your posts always make me sit and think. :)
 
  • #72
Ames,

You may be correct, it would not surprise me to have it confirmed that JonBenet was bleeding due to her head injury?

Then again why remove it, what is the motive, if they intend to hang the blame on some kidnapper?

.

With all severe head wounds that make the nose, ears or mouth bleed, the bleeding starts immediately after the blow. Patsy, at that point, probably hadn't even had time to alert John to what was happening. I believe that the nose bleed happened, way before they had agreed to stage it to look like an intruder. In other words, I believe that Patsy wiped the blood off as any caring parent would. And with JB being unconscious...which you KNOW she WAS after that blow....the nose probably didn't bleed alot, because of her faint heartbeat. Long after the nose bleed, did Patsy and John decide to stage the scene to make it look like an intruder did it.
 
  • #73
esp. since PR said in DOI that it was NEW...the one JR put in the casket..meaning,IMO..it likely wasn't.

Since she always said the opposite of what the truth was. They were both very good at that. Funny that she points out that it was NEW....because later they said that they put things that were special to JB in the casket with her. First of all....what 6 year old girl that YOU know, likes scarves??.....Second of all...if it was NEW, then how could it have been special to her?? Her body needs to be exhumed....not to re-examine the body, but to examine that darn scarf.
 
  • #74
me too,I think that does sound very likely.

As I posted to UKGUY...who asked me, why didn't they just leave the blood? I think that her nose bled immediately after the head wound...because thats what the mouth, eyes and ears (one or all the above) do when there is a severe head trauma. I believe that Patsy loved JB, and that she wiped the blood off. But this was WAY before Patsy and John had decided to stage the crime scene. I believe that she wiped the blood off of her, before realizing how bad the wound was. The bleeding probably gave her some idea though....THAT and the crack that I am sure she heard when JB's head hit either the tub or the sink. I do believe that the stain that the interviewer refers to, that is on JB's pillow...was a blood stain that happened when her nose bled that night. (Thats why the other interviewer asked Patsy if JB had nighttime nosebleeds..and Patsy said No. ) Patsy probaby couldn't get it to stop at first, but then JB's heartbeat started to get fainter and fainter....and it slowed the blood flow. It probably even stopped bleeding on its own.
 
  • #75
it seems they wanted the ligature strangling to be what was noticed the most? with her hair rearranged,it seems they were trying to hide the head injury.

The rearranged hair served TWO purposes...to hide the head injury...and to more prominently display the garotte. They wanted that to be the first thing that anybody saw.
 
  • #76
Oh, I definitely meant no disrespect to you, UKGuy. The question of why her bottom was wiped but not her face has been bothering me since Jayelles pointed out it looked like JonBenet had been crying due to her face being a bit messy.

I never really looked all that closely at JonBenet's face in the autopsy photos other than to examine the wounds because it bothers me to see her face in death. I'd rather picture her as the smiling happy girl in family photos.

So I began to wonder...if the reason she was wiped was due to the staging being done by someone who cared for her, as I had been thinking, then why didn't that caring extend to making sure her face was cleaned off as well?

As long as I've been following this case, I keep coming up with new questions as different things get discussed. This is just another one of those questions - you would think that the person who applied the tape to her face would have noticed that she'd had a runny nose (if not a nosebleed - that raises even more questions in my mind) and had been crying, and if that person cleaned her off below the waist out of concern or what have you, then that person would have wanted her to have a clean face also. I don't know - anyway, I was just thinking out loud. Your posts always make me sit and think. :)

If you go back and read the first post of this thread...you will see where a medical website that I found, says that after a severe head injury, BLOOD OR FLUID comes from either the ears, nose, mouth (one or all of the above). Could the mucous on JB's face, not be from crying...but from the fluid that came from her nose after the head wound? Immediately after a head wound, is when the bleeding starts....Patsy probably freaked out, and wiped the blood from JB's face, as any caring parent would. It probably bled alot at first (making the stain that the interviewer referred to in PR interview)...and then as JB's heartbeat grew fainter, it probably eventually stopped on its on. Since the bleeding starts immediately..Patsy had no time to run and get John. Only AFTER the wiping of the blood from the nose bleed....did Patsy and John decide to stage the scene of the crime. Whether the mucous on JB's face was fluid from her mouth or nose, because of the head trauma..or because she had been crying....I believe that the parents were in a panic, and didn't really see it. Remember, the autopsy photos are close up...and a parent that is working in a dimly lit basement and with limited amount of time...most likely would have missed a little mucous on her face. Its not like it was bright red, and was noticable. I believe that it was either overlooked.....or at that point, they didn't really care if it was there or not...they just had to get that staged crime scene done and over with, so that they could call 911.
 
  • #77
Oh, I definitely meant no disrespect to you, UKGuy. The question of why her bottom was wiped but not her face has been bothering me since Jayelles pointed out it looked like JonBenet had been crying due to her face being a bit messy.

I never really looked all that closely at JonBenet's face in the autopsy photos other than to examine the wounds because it bothers me to see her face in death. I'd rather picture her as the smiling happy girl in family photos.

So I began to wonder...if the reason she was wiped was due to the staging being done by someone who cared for her, as I had been thinking, then why didn't that caring extend to making sure her face was cleaned off as well?

As long as I've been following this case, I keep coming up with new questions as different things get discussed. This is just another one of those questions - you would think that the person who applied the tape to her face would have noticed that she'd had a runny nose (if not a nosebleed - that raises even more questions in my mind) and had been crying, and if that person cleaned her off below the waist out of concern or what have you, then that person would have wanted her to have a clean face also. I don't know - anyway, I was just thinking out loud. Your posts always make me sit and think. :)

Nuisanceposter,
Thats a leading question, I hope your not disresepecting me ...
Of course not, that was meant as an indirect reference to John when the subject of incest was aired.

If JonBenet bled after receiving the head blow, then her killer(s) knew she needed medical assistance, even if they were not aware how serious her head injury was.

It is possible that she was cleaned up and the mucous on her face is a post-mortem release caused by her being relocated to the wine-cellar, changing the pressure inside her head?

If JonBenet did not have nose-bleeds then the blood on her pillow could be a result of some incident, then patently she was lying on this bed, which is either the location of a prior staging or the place she was initially killed? I wonder if whomever killed JonBenet simply cleaned her up, and placed her into bed, hoping nothing would come back on them later?

By the time it had reached the wine-cellar staging mucous and urine-soaked longjohns did not matter since an intruder kidnapping was being staged?

After being killed I reckon JonBenet's appearance was made to look as if she was ok, since her head injury is not immediately apparent, and only the abrasions on her lower neck would be visible, but these could be hidden by wearing a turtleneck, so she could really be placed anywhere in the house, my bet is on her bedroom.

Bear in mind that the garrote was constructed down in the basement at a later point in time.

With the blood stain the plot thickens, since if she was not initially asphyxiated as some claim, then we still have JonBenet being sexually assaulted, and whacked on the head, medical assistance being denied, her body being cleaned up, with possibly her bedroom playing a central role?

An interesting thought is why a nose-bleed, why not a mouth bleed or an ear-bleed, was the blood matched directly to that night?

If this had been an accident then any normal parent would seek medical assistance right away, this never occurred, why so?

If Patsy did it, why should John risk his reputation and liberty assisting Patsy cover up the crime, and if it was John why should Patsy risk her liberty aiding and abetting John?

Yet there is forensic evidence suggesting they both colluded in the staging of JonBenet's final resting place, they both lied for each other, they defended each other in public, Patsy to the extent of ruling out John as being in a position to molest JonBenet, imo they were both involved, and that JonBenet's death was no accident!

.
 
  • #78
Since she always said the opposite of what the truth was. They were both very good at that. Funny that she points out that it was NEW....because later they said that they put things that were special to JB in the casket with her. First of all....what 6 year old girl that YOU know, likes scarves??.....Second of all...if it was NEW, then how could it have been special to her?? Her body needs to be exhumed....not to re-examine the body, but to examine that darn scarf.

I totally agree.And to check and see if anything else is in there?The only other think I can think of is to settle the 'stun gun' issue,once and for all.Although,IMO,they're very unlikely to be stun gun marks.But it would be nice to shut up all the spinners about it.
 
  • #79
As I posted to UKGUY...who asked me, why didn't they just leave the blood? I think that her nose bled immediately after the head wound...because thats what the mouth, eyes and ears (one or all the above) do when there is a severe head trauma. I believe that Patsy loved JB, and that she wiped the blood off. But this was WAY before Patsy and John had decided to stage the crime scene. I believe that she wiped the blood off of her, before realizing how bad the wound was. The bleeding probably gave her some idea though....THAT and the crack that I am sure she heard when JB's head hit either the tub or the sink. I do believe that the stain that the interviewer refers to, that is on JB's pillow...was a blood stain that happened when her nose bled that night. (Thats why the other interviewer asked Patsy if JB had nighttime nosebleeds..and Patsy said No. ) Patsy probaby couldn't get it to stop at first, but then JB's heartbeat started to get fainter and fainter....and it slowed the blood flow. It probably even stopped bleeding on its own.

probably so,as her BP started dropping.
Another thought comes to mind on the head injury...PR asked about blood on the curtains..does anyone know if there are any photos of the curtains in her room? And what kind of windowsill was behind them,and how far off the floor? My thought is that maybe she was thrown into the windowsill,but the curtains softened the blow a bit,so...no laceration ocurred,but the sill itself caused the crack in her skull,or maybe the edge of it did.

I wonder if LE ever luminoled her room?It might have been a good idea.
 
  • #80
I totally agree.And to check and see if anything else is in there?The only other think I can think of is to settle the 'stun gun' issue,once and for all.Although,IMO,they're very unlikely to be stun gun marks.But it would be nice to shut up all the spinners about it.

I agree, the body needs to be examined too, but Jayelles says that the body would most likely be too decomposed. I wonder if there is any evidence sewn into her stuffed cat...wasn't it Sister Socks...because IF that is the stuffed cat that she is buried with, Patsy said in one of her interviews that JB wasn't that attached to Sister Socks. If thats the case...why the heck did they bury her with it then? Unless it contains evidence...I will try to find the part in the interview where Patsy talks about it, and post it.

18 TOM HANEY: Did you have a particular stuffed
19 animal, blanket, toy, whatever, that she took to bed?
20 PATSY RAMSEY: She had a kitten we called
21 Sister Socks. It is a gray and white stuffed animal
22 that she liked the best.
23 TOM HANEY: Inseparable or she just liked --
24 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, not really inseparable,
25 but she liked that pretty much all the time.
0389
1 TOM HANEY: Some kids can't go to bed --
2 PATSY RAMSEY: No. She wasn't like that.
 

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