Dina Shacknai wants Max's death reopened; gives ICU pic to media

[MyBelle]

You can't have it both ways. If he looked as bad as the pictures she's releasing to "shock" everyone, but she went AWOL from the hospital such that she can't be seen on any video camera, the mind reels at the possibilities. No mother would leave her child in that state. If she wasn't at the house, where was she? Drinking?

Excuse me? I'm not having it "both ways" and neither was either parent. they are not suspects no matter how you spin it.

Doctors can not diagnose internal injuries base on how a patient "looks" in photographs but they can certainly document suspected child abuse with photographs, which apparently is the case here.

JMO

 

[katydid23]

Actually, he died while in Jonah and DS's care - but one was absent and the other appears to have been "in bed." Curious.

NO, Maxie was not in the care of his parents when he died. There were only 2 people who met the EMT's 2 minutes after his fall. And neither of them were his parents.

 

[MyBelle]

With all due respect, that is simply not true, particularly in a hospital setting.

The ED doctor's job is to treat the child. Period. And provide qualified family members, meaning those covered by HIPAA, with information about the child's condition and how to take care of the child once released.

As I posted earlier, in most trauma cases a social worker is called in no matter what the doctor's opinion is. The doctor's opinion might be that the parents' story of the child with a bruised butt and sore back accidentally falling hard on a slippery floor is consistent with the child's injuries and affect, and thus no abuse occurred, but protocol requires the doctor to call in the social worker to investigate nonetheless.

The doctor's job is not to play detective and act as the sole judge of whether the circumstances described around the child's injuries are consistent with the actual injuries or not, in a vacuum without other personnel's input, expertise, and involvement.

For a doctor to make such a definitive statement invites litigation from many entities. No hospital would tolerate that. They have enough litigation problems as it is.

Izzy, Izzy, the hospital doctors do not fear litigation because they did nothing wrong. There are federal laws that protect the communication between doctors and their patients/parents. In this case, the hospital called in LE. It is what it is. The doctors did nothing wrong and there will be no litigation against the doctors from the parents.

JMO

 

[Betty P]

Did anyone look at the photos provided with the new reports DS released? I could not figure out the marks on the bannister. They were very odd. It was stated in themreport that JS said the marks were not there the day before.

No, haven't seen them. Do you have a link to the report? Thanks!

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

Did anyone look at the photos provided with the new reports DS released? I could not figure out the marks on the bannister. They were very odd. It was stated in themreport that JS said the marks were not there the day before.

I did. And I agree, they were ODD. In fact, it almost looked like someone took the razor scooter and hit it against the wood until it chipped.

And Max's injuries were rather ODD as well.

 

[MyBelle]

Did anyone look at the photos provided with the new reports DS released? I could not figure out the marks on the bannister. They were very odd. It was stated in themreport that JS said the marks were not there the day before.

The marks appear to be blood to me. Which is why I think the expert concluded MS was beaten near the bannister.

JMO

 

[freespeech]

Maybe. But of the two, one felt guilty enough to kill herself, and the other didn't. Which is the worst thing to deal with, having a hangover or being in charge when a child dies a brutal, inexplicable death?

If we are playing ask a hypothetical question here then which is worse for someone who murders an innocent victim in a violent rage. To admit they murdered someone in a rage or to admit they lied to cover it up?

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

The marks appear to be blood to me. Which is why I think the expert concluded MS was beaten near the bannister.

JMO

Ya know, I thought that too.

 

[katydid23]

Under any scenario, that information would be publicly available. If DS and her posse want to make that allegation about RZ, it would not be difficult for them to provide some proof. If they have no proof, well...

Why would it be publicly available? Quite the opposite. It would be a private in family adoption. No records would be public at all. The Birth Certificate would be amended with the grandparents names. Even the child would not have access to the original without a court order.

But it is easy to see why the rumors are out there. Aren't RZ and her sisters in their late 20's and early 30's? And then there is one much younger child back at home. People are going to question that.

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

...or one was in a rage so they murdered the other one. So which is worse for the murderer? To admit they murdered someone in a rage or to admit they lied to cover it up? Just asking some questions here.

Sorry, but Rebecca killed herself. She was not murdered.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Jumping off:


And I hardly think RZ being in reality her
.
If the grandmother was raising the child she would probably have an amended birth certificate. It does not need to be a closed adoption for there to be an amended BC, which would not have the actual birthparents listed on it.

Once again jumping off from your post:

Fair enough. Where is any source to the birth certificate? Haven't seen it which strikes me as odd given how much factual information it must contain relating to the sister's actual parenthood vs. all the speculation I've seen tossed about.

 

[katydid23]

...or one was in a rage so they murdered the other one. So which is worse for the murderer? To admit they murdered someone in a rage or to admit they lied to cover it up? Just asking some questions here.

I highly doubt that Dina murdered RZ in a rage. I think she would have been arrested already.

RZ was in much better shape, and much stronger with much better endurance. Dina would have had a lot of visible injuries, imo.

 

[MyBelle]

...or one was in a rage so they murdered the other one. So which is worse for the murderer? To admit they murdered someone in a rage or to admit they lied to cover it up?

In terms of prosecution and sentencing, the liars who lie or try to cover-up a crime usually face a much more severe punishment. Their credibility is lacking because of the lies and nothing they claim will be believed. Teens who initally lie to cops are often prosecuted as adults.

Did I mention I work in a prison?

JMO

 

[katydid23]

She DID leave town very quickly, and from her website vs. her TV appearances, it does appear that she wears a lot of makeup. So this is entirely consistent with her having participated in some kind of assault.

The cops interviewed her right after RZ's death. No amount of make up would have covered up anything that they were looking for. They would have asked to see her without make up if there was a hint of a bruise or a scratch.

 

[FightTheOstrich]

I disagree with your opinion. CPR is very effective and is better than nothing at all, which was what RZ was observed doing by the first responder. CPR, properly performed, is a replacement for a non-beating heart. CPR keeps the oxygenated blood circulating between heart, lung and brain. My own father was kept alive for more than 15-minutes by nurses doing CPR until his heart started beating again after being shocked repeatedly. He didn't suffer brain damage and lived another 17 years.

RZ, by doing nothing at all, did hasten the child's brain death.

JMO

Statistically, CPR is actually not that effective. It's even less effective when used to treat children because typically cardiac arrest is the result of another injury.


"Abstract*
Purpose: Injury is the leading cause of cardiac arrest in children older than 1 year. Previous findings suggest that children who require cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) administered by paramedics for any reason rarely survive to hospital discharge. The authors evaluated the outcome of children sustaining cardiac arrest after blunt trauma in a Regional Pediatric Trauma Center. Methods: Children (age < 16) who underwent CPR in the field or in the emergency department (ED) after blunt trauma were identified from the trauma registry of a regional pediatric trauma center over a 3-year period (1997 to 2000). Patient demographics, rate of survival to discharge, factors influencing survival, and organ donation data were obtained from the trauma registry and medical record. Probability of survival (Ps) was calculated by TRISS analysis. Results: Twenty-five children were identified with a history of cardiac arrest after blunt injury (mean age; 3.3 years; range, 0.1 to 10; mean ISS, 30.7; range, 13-75; mean RTS, 1.58). Mean calculated Ps was 22.7%. However, only 2 (8%) survived. Death in the majority (91%) of the 23 patients who died occurred secondary to brain or spinal cord injury, and only 2 (9%) occurred as the result of exsanguinating hemorrhage. CPR was first performed in the field in 10 patients (40%), en route in 6 (24%), and in the ED in 9 (36%). Of the children who survived, both had vitals in the field, and CPR was administered initially in the ED. Mean length of ED resuscitation before death was 80 minutes. Of the children who died, organ donation occurred in only 3 (13%). The 2 survivors had no head injury and were discharged within 3 weeks of injury. Conclusions: Cardiopulmonary resuscitation after blunt injury in children rarely results in survival. The majority of deaths occur as a result of isolated intracranial injury and not exsanguinating hemorrhage. Although all children should receive aggressive resuscitation after injury, the need for CPR in the field portends a poor outcome. Furthermore, these data would suggest that prolonged or heroic efforts for children sustaining cardiac arrest in the field are not indicated. J Pediatr Surg 37:180-184. Copyright © 2002 by W.B. Saunders Company."




*

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

Well gosh, I guess no one should do CPR ever again if that's the case.

 

[dovebar]

The cops interviewed her right after RZ's death. No amount of make up would have covered up anything that they were looking for. They would have asked to see her without make up if there was a hint of a bruise or a scratch.

You have no way of knowing this.

Although of course, she might have had help. There were lots of sympathetic relatives in town by then.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

She DID leave town very quickly, and from her website vs. her TV appearances, it does appear that she wears a lot of makeup. So this is entirely consistent with her having participated in some kind of assault.

Seriously, since when is quantity of makeup considered evidence of participation in an assault? Did Tammy Fay Baker ever assault anybody? Of course not. You are really grasping at straws.


JMO

 

[freespeech]

Lord, are you gonna start writing poetry next?

And it could just be that Rebecca didn't care. That she had done what she had set out to do. That she was actually celebrating in her own way. That she was being extra nice-as-pie to her little sister, so the sister would go along with everything she said. Someone like Rebecca. You're right.

Actually there are many testimonials all over the internet from friends, family and co-workers who praised Rebecca for her caring and kindness. She was very much loved by those who knew her. I'm sure that I am not alone in saying many 'strangers' have also come love both and Max and Rebecca from learning their story here on the internet. So yes, I may become sentimental and write a little poem from time to time. So what?

 

[dovebar]

Seriously, since when is quantity of makeup considered evidence of participation in an assault? Did Tammy Fay Baker ever assault anybody? Of course not. You are really grasping at straws.


JMO

But we know that Dina had a history of physical violence, and so did Jonah. That by the time RZ died, there were multiple relatives on the property, and Dina's whereabouts cannot be confirmed (nor can Jonah's). Simply stating the obvious.

JMO