Discuss Max's death here - Thread #1.

[MyBelle]

I agree. While I don't think that someone set out to kill or injure Max that day, I also don't believe we're getting the full story of what happened. Is that because RZ and her sister didn't witness the incident as they claim, or did something someone doesn't want revealed, happen? I'm convinced RZ and/or her sister knew more than they revealed, but that is only my opinion and could be completely wrong.

I think Rebecca witnessed it but her sister did not and that is why we will never know what really happened. But we do know from the AR that she told LE that the scooter had been upstairs and that Max had been told not to ride it.

JMO

 

[arielilane]

I can't fathom how the chandelier plays in with Max's accident.
Stupid question: CA folks was there any earthquake tremors the day of Max's accident?
The scooter is questionable as well. But, can be explained easier. I need to reread the autopsy report again. It's not something one dives right into. Sweet Max.


I do want to express my appreciation towards DS and JS with regard to their unselfish decision to donate Max's organs. I can't imagine their pain.

 

[justbetweenus]

I think Rebecca witnessed it but her sister did not and that is why we will never know what really happened. But we do know from the AR that she told LE that the scooter had been upstairs and that Max had been told not to ride it.

JMO

I agree with you. One of those girls know/knew what happened. I found her scooter statement kinda odd. She stated that Max was told not to ride the scooter upstairs, but she did see it up there a couple days ago.

I have a few theories, but lets say he was riding the scooter up there, and someone angry, grabbed and pulled the scooter from his hands (while riding) threw it downstairs. While at the same time the dog jumps up pushes Max and he falls over?

 

[jjenny]

I really fail to see how the scooter could have ended up on his shin in such a scenario.

 

[Rhyme & Reason]

Here you go:



http://abcnews.go.com/US/spreckels-mansion-death-boy-max-schacknai-dies/story?id=14097880

This article is dated July 18. LEs theories and scenario have changed considerably since those early days.

 

[sdcali]

Can you link me to the part that says from the second story bannister to the ground on the first floor? I've just posted a quote from the sheriff stating it was a fall from stairs, not from a bannister.

When I said the 2nd story bannister, I am referring to the top of the second story set of stairs as depicted in the LE Powerpoint. So, yes it was from the stairs and over the bannister at or near the top of the stairs.

Here is a link to that depiction (see page 9 and 10)

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/ms.pdf

 

[SophieRose]

I agree with you. One of those girls know/knew what happened. I found her scooter statement kinda odd. She stated that Max was told not to ride the scooter upstairs, but she did see it up there a couple days ago.

I have a few theories, but lets say he was riding the scooter up there, and someone angry, grabbed and pulled the scooter from his hands (while riding) threw it downstairs. While at the same time the dog jumps up pushes Max and he falls over?

Wouldn't the scooter have sustained some sort of damage? And if you are hiding things from LE, why bother to tell them the last time you saw the scooter it was on the second floor.

 

[scorekeeper]

This article is dated July 18. LEs theories and scenario have changed considerably since those early days.

R & R,

You are so right in your statement!!!! They sure have changed their theories since July 18th!!!

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

[CDS22]

Wouldn't the scooter have sustained some sort of damage? And if you are hiding things from LE, why bother to tell them the last time you saw the scooter it was on the second floor.

Because perhaps (pure speculation on my part, of course) someone wanted to make it look like a scooter accident when it was something else. The scene that the authorities walked in on sounded awfully staged.

 

[delaney]

why there was a dark liquid similar to charcoal
in his stomach? does this have anything to do with harvesting
organs or was his stomach pumped at some point? did it have
anything to do with the false/positive blood test?

thanks is advance!

 

[justbetweenus]

Wouldn't the scooter have sustained some sort of damage? And if you are hiding things from LE, why bother to tell them the last time you saw the scooter it was on the second floor.

My thoughts are to further remove herself on knowing anything that happened, not seeing it for a couple days,which was upstairs, making it possible it was the cause? If he wasn't allowed to have it upstairs why didn't she bring it back down then. Both girls coincidentally in the washroom one up, one down....ok true it happens.

I don't really see a lot of damage happening to the scooter by being thrown downstairs, I'm sure it's not a cheapy. And when he falls part of his body hits it knocking it onto to his shin.

 

[jjenny]

If scooter fell down first, then he would be on top of the scooter. Not the other way round. It's a carpeted surface. I fail to see how it would bounce onto his leg.

 

[justbetweenus]

If scooter fell down first, then he would be on top of the scooter. Not the other way round. It's a carpeted surface. I fail to see how it would bounce onto his leg.

If part of his body hit say a handlebar not knock it over?

 

[Plumeria5]

I know we are not allowed to say names of other minors involved but is it ok to suggest scenarios with a minor or to ask the age of another minor?

 

[Plumeria5]

I know we are not allowed to say names of other minors involved but is it ok to suggest scenarios with a minor or to ask the age of another minor?

I have a feeling the answer is no so I won't go there. :innocent:

 

[MyBelle]

If scooter fell down first, then he would be on top of the scooter. Not the other way round. It's a carpeted surface. I fail to see how it would bounce onto his leg.

When hit with force, the hit object should react. Carpeting had nothing to do with it, imo. Max's body may have struck the scooter when he hit the floor, creating movement of the scooter.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

My thoughts are to further remove herself on knowing anything that happened, not seeing it for a couple days,which was upstairs, making it possible it was the cause? If he wasn't allowed to have it upstairs why didn't she bring it back down then. Both girls coincidentally in the washroom one up, one down....ok true it happens.

I don't really see a lot of damage happening to the scooter by being thrown downstairs, I'm sure it's not a cheapy. And when he falls part of his body hits it knocking it onto to his shin.

I do wonder if the scooter had some type of motor. It would be difficult to use a scooter on carpet otherwise. As for why he had it in the house, that might be a decision of his dad that RN didn't support and was upset by it. It wouldn't be good for carpet.

JMO

 

[revampz]

oh ok I didnt realise the hall was carpeted as well!! so ok we are to beleive that a six year old was hurtling so fast on a scooter on carpeted floor that he tripped and went over a bannister hitting a chandelier and bouncing onto the railing AND said scooter also happened to fly over the bannister and landed on his shin...

sorry I do not buy it and havent since I first read the story about rebecca being found hung after his death.

 

[elfie]

oh ok I didnt realise the hall was carpeted as well!! so ok we are to beleive that a six year old was hurtling so fast on a scooter on carpeted floor that he tripped and went over a bannister hitting a chandelier and bouncing onto the railing AND said scooter also happened to fly over the bannister and landed on his shin...

sorry I do not buy it and havent since I first read the story about rebecca being found hung after his death.

IWannaKnow provided an excellent description of a possible scooter accident scenario from the 2nd floor hallway in the general threads #231, Thread 11:

I agree elfie. This is also how I see this happening. Perhaps the scooter is what took the chandelier down and not Max.

Thank you Quester for posting the hinky meter report re: handrail height and MS's ability (or not) to go over that railing.

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2011/09/09/rebecca-zahau-case-how-maxs-accident-didnt-happen/

She effectively established that the handrail height is 32" or thereabouts. She also established that the step height is about 6 1/2". Perfect. Now, study this picture, which she linked to her report:

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/ms03.jpg

Notice that the handrail on the second floor is the same height as the newel post. That establishes that the railing BEGINS at a height of 32". As the stairs go down, the handrail has to follow, which is why the handrail dips downward at the transition point behind the newel post by 6 1/2" - the height of the step. So immediately after the newel post on the second floor landing the handrail height is only 25.5" (approximately) from the second floor landing. The handrail is 32" on the second floor, 32" at the first stair, but only 25.5" from the second floor floor at the transitional dip you see in the handrail just behind the newel post. This is only a factor if you stand on the second floor and lean over the handrail at that exact point (and yes, it can be done). The Razor scooter would raise him up a few more inches even. I could see the post on the Razor working as a lever and the handrail as the pivot point, with MS's weight causing it to somersault over the railing with him. The scooter only weighs about 7 lbs.

http://www.target.com/p/Razor-Black-Label-Ultra-Pro-Lo-Kick-Scooter/-/A-13539774

So hinky meter established that Max's center of gravity would be at 28". Even without the scooter if he came off the second floor landing at exactly the wrong place, just after the newel post where the railing is only 25.5" in relation to the second floor, and he had any velocity behind him it shouldn't be that hard for him to do what the sheriff's office said. IMO. FWIW, they did talk about this in the briefing and stated that the railing was only 20 some odd inches at that point. I grew up in a house even older than this one and our stairs were similar. I was always conscious of that spot in the railing that wasn't really all that safe. Plus, we have redone the stairwell in our house and the discussion about handrails was eyeopening to me because of all the work we would have to do to work around the stair height. All of this is an attempt to say that the handrail is not 32" all the way down the stairwell. If he was against the railing on the second floor this couldn't have happened, if he were standing flat on the first stair facing the railing it couldn't have happened. He had to come off the second floor landing at an oblique angle to the stairs and gone over at that exact point with some velocity. IMO. Much like the descriptions.

Also if Ocean was what caused him to trip and fall he may have yelled the dog's name as he struck him and just before he went over the railing, and that could have been what Rebecca heard.

The scooter scenario includes, provides an answer for Rebecca's statement that he was not allowed to ride the scooter in the upstairs hallway as well as for the scooter to be found on top of his shin.

It's heartbreaking however Max's accident happened. My heart goes out to his family.

 

[CDS22]

oh ok I didnt realise the hall was carpeted as well!! so ok we are to beleive that a six year old was hurtling so fast on a scooter on carpeted floor that he tripped and went over a bannister hitting a chandelier and bouncing onto the railing AND said scooter also happened to fly over the bannister and landed on his shin...

sorry I do not buy it and havent since I first read the story about rebecca being found hung after his death.

Yeah, it's not plausible at all, and now that we know the severity of Max's injuries (the fact that he couldn' breathe without resuscitation), we know that he couldn't talk, meaning that he couldn't have said "Ocean". Seems to me somebody intentionally was vague with the truth, outright lied, or was a very poor witness. Or perhaps that should read "someones".