Discuss Max's death here - Thread #1.

[katydid23]

There is no reason to believe she didn't go inside the hospital when she brought things for JS and people in to see Max. She never claimed in that e-mail she actually got to see Max in ICU.

Now it just seems like we are niggling over semantics. We can agree to disagree I suppose.

IMO, she seems to be giving her family a false sense of the situation, by telling them she is so busy 'going in and out' of the hospital. That clearly sounds like she is saying she is busy visiting Max with the family.

We have heard reports that she was actually banned from the hospital by DS. I believe that.

 

[jjenny]

Now it just seems like we are niggling over semantics. We can agree to disagree I suppose.

IMO, she seems to be giving her family a false sense of the situation, by telling them she is so busy 'going in and out' of the hospital. That clearly sounds like she is saying she is busy visiting Max with the family.

We have heard reports that she was actually banned from the hospital by DS. I believe that.

Her sister clearly knew about her issues with DS.

 

[CDS22]

She appears to be telling her sisters that she herself is going in and out of the hospital. But that is not true. It appears as though she is lying to her sisters, making it sound like everything was ok between she and Jonah at the time. Which was not true. That makes anything her sisters say about what she told them kind of suspect, imo. It seems like she was trying to put on a front for her family,pretending like she and JS were doing fine together.

That's how I read it, too. I also thought it strange how she asked for prayers for strength for Jonah (a quote from her sister linked in a previous post in this thread) but didn't ask for prayers for Max. She made it sound (IMO) like Max was doing just fine.

Very, very strange.

IMO

 

[4Jacy]

The stitches were to her leg though.....not to her feet.:waitasec:

Id like to know which part of the leg was cut? That sounds more like she was right there when the chandelier came crashing down and shattered and a piece of it went into her leg.

IMO

She could have slipped on the glass, fell and, hence, the cut on her leg.

 

[thinkingstraight]

Her sister clearly knew about her issues with DS.

Maybe she didnt want to admit to her sister that JS was honoring DS wishes. IMO , it would be a little humiliating to be banned from seeing someone, especially if I considered them "my son"

 

[CDS22]

But according to Jonah, he also had dinner with Rebecca and his brother. Plus, she also picked up Adam and Dina's sister Nina from the airport. If everything was not okay between Rebecca and Jonah, why did Jonah make her go to all that trouble and why didn't he just kick her out of the house right after Max's accident?

I think the dinner with JS and AS was for the purpose of asking RZ more questions about MS's accident. I also think that it was for the purpose of JS possibly telling her it was over, and saying it in front of a witness (AS) so that she wouldn't make a scene.

All of this is mere speculation on my part, and only my opinion, but that's how I see the scene unfolding.

 

[MyBelle]

Now it just seems like we are niggling over semantics. We can agree to disagree I suppose.

IMO, she seems to be giving her family a false sense of the situation, by telling them she is so busy 'going in and out' of the hospital. That clearly sounds like she is saying she is busy visiting Max with the family.

We have heard reports that she was actually banned from the hospital by DS. I believe that.

I don't believe DS banned her, I think the chief doctor who suspected suffocation put restrictions on when and who could visit Max.

JMO

 

[jjenny]

I think the dinner with JS and AS was for the purpose of asking RZ more questions about MS's accident. I also think that it was for the purpose of JS possibly telling her it was over, and saying it in front of a witness (AS) so that she wouldn't make a scene.

All of this is mere speculation on my part, and only my opinion, but that's how I see the scene unfolding.

Police said that everybody they interviewed were truthful with them. So, how would that fit with that scenario of yours? Not very well, I am afraid.

 

[CDS22]

She could have slipped on the glass, fell and, hence, the cut on her leg.

But doesn't that make it all the more strange that MS, who supposedly fell through a chandelier or had a chandelier fall on him, didn't have a single cut on his hands, feet, or legs?

(The claims about what could have happened with the chandelier are on page 2 of the AR found here: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...DctZGRjMy00ODVkLTk1YWItODAxZjAxMzE5OTVl&hl=en )

JMO

 

[CDS22]

Police said that everybody they interviewed were truthful with them. So, how would that fit with that scenario of yours? Not very well, I am afraid.

How would it make them untruthful? The reports don't say what went on during that dinner, only that it happened.

 

[jjenny]

How would it make them untruthful? The reports don't say what went on during that dinner, only that it happened.

Because police clearly implied she killed herself over a message about Max's condition. Not because JS told her anything over dinner with AS as a witness.

 

[deanna82437]

How could she have received stitches in her leg when she was picking up the glass with her hands?

Wouldn't the cuts be on her hands?:waitasec:

Seems reasonable, though not a fact, she would be on her knees to clean up the glass, no? That's how I would do it. Hence the cut on the leg. JMO

 

[CDS22]

Because police clearly implied she killed herself over a message about Max's condition. Not because JS told her anything over dinner with AS as a witness.

This is my opinion, and my opinion only: I think RZ was contemplating suicide from the day MS was injured. I think she had days to plan and experiment, and that the final phone call was what pushed her over the edge to actually commit suicide that day.

JMO

 

[IWannaKnow]

How could she have received stitches in her leg when she was picking up the glass with her hands?

Wouldn't the cuts be on her hands?:waitasec:

I'm going to say, from reading the SW, that this is the same chandelier. They mention that it is gold toned, as this one is. Notice how big this light fixture is. It is TALL.

http://www.lampsplus.com/products/s...n-33-inch-wide-crystal-chandelier__47791.html

This is NOT the same chandelier, it is smaller based upon the number of candles on it. It is 41" high. That is almost 3 1/2' tall. Sitting on the ground, with the crystal broken, XZ could have very easily brushed up against one of the broken and very sharp edges of ANY part of that light fixture and had a very serious cut to her leg. I don't know how tall she was, but that is no stretch of the imagination. A bobeche is the little crystal piece that goes around the candle. It would have stuck out further than any other piece and would have been more likely to break.

http://www.capecandle.com/bobeche.aspx

She could have easily been cut by multiple pieces of that light fixture. IMO.

 

[thinkingstraight]

I don't believe DS banned her, I think the chief doctor who suspected suffocation put restrictions on when and who could visit Max.

JMO

And then there's that theory. You're right. . . there's so much to think about it. I'm sure she wouldn't want her sister to know about that either!

 

[jjenny]

And then there's that theory. You're right. . . there's so much to think about it. I'm sure she wouldn't want her sister to know about that either!

Nobody might have told her that the doctor had this opinion. First of all I don't believe this doctor was running around telling everybody about it. Second of all if DS and her twin wanted to get info out of RN, they might have not wanted to tell RN about their suspicions, because then she would refuse talking to them.

 

[CDS22]

I'm going to say, from reading the SW, that this is the same chandelier. They mention that it is gold toned, as this one is. Notice how big this light fixture is. It is TALL.

http://www.lampsplus.com/products/s...n-33-inch-wide-crystal-chandelier__47791.html

This is NOT the same chandelier, it is smaller based upon the number of candles on it. It is 41" high. That is almost 3 1/2' tall. Sitting on the ground, with the crystal broken, XZ could have very easily brushed up against one of the broken and very sharp edges of ANY part of that light fixture and had a very serious cut to her leg. I don't know how tall she was, but that is no stretch of the imagination. A bobeche is the little crystal piece that goes around the candle. It would have stuck out further than any other piece and would have been more likely to break.

http://www.capecandle.com/bobeche.aspx

She could have easily been cut by multiple pieces of that light fixture. IMO.

Then the question begs to be asked: Why did MS not receive any kinds of cuts if he grabbed onto that chandelier and brought it down with him? Or if it fell on him?

 

[thinkingstraight]

Nobody might have told her that the doctor had this opinion. First of all I don't believe this doctor was running around telling everybody about it. Second of all if DS and her twin wanted to get info out of RN, they might have not wanted to tell RN about their suspicions, because then she would refuse talking to them.

I am not attacking you or anything, but I am very curious about the murder camp. Everyone else seems to be lying, but Rebecca and her family are incapable? I find it strange that we cannot be equally cynical about everyone in this case! I

 

[CDS22]

Nobody might have told her that the doctor had this opinion. First of all I don't believe this doctor was running around telling everybody about it. Second of all if DS and her twin wanted to get info out of RN, they might have not wanted to tell RN about their suspicions, because then she would refuse talking to them.

I would assume he went to the police (because they have his quote in the search warrant) and the parents with his suspicions. Now the next part is only my opinion: I think the family perhaps chose not to tell RZ any of this because they didn't trust her and couldn't get a clear answer on what happened to MS. I think that could have culminated in her feeling isolated and alone, perhaps made her depressed even more if she was already feeling that there were relationship problems between her and JS (and police have her email messages to her sister and her journal entry about just that).

 

[jjenny]

I am not attacking you or anything, but I am very curious about the murder camp. Everyone else seems to be lying, but Rebecca and her family are incapable? I find it strange that we cannot be equally cynical about everyone in this case! I

I don't recall anyone from the "murder camp" claiming RN or her family are incapable. I personally have questions about both Max's incident and RN's untimely demise, but frankly I think it's obvious "suffocation" didn't have anything to do with Max's death. Whatever tests the hospital did on Max, I don't believe that the doctor was aware of the extensive spinal cord damage Max had, because the spinal cord damage explains both cardiac arrest and brain swelling, as was clearly pointed out in the autopsy. But from what we know so far, if the doctor told Max's family members about that suffocation theory, I think it's a safe bet they would be very suspicious of RN.
But I don't believe they would have told RN about their suspicions, especially if there was hope of getting more information out of her. We know that DS's twin wanted to talk to RN about the incident that very evening. I don't believe anything was told to RN about these suspicions, because then she wouldn't talk.