Discussion Thread #61 ~ the appeal~

[Trotterly]

No Trotterly i'm afraid you are on a losing battle why people like you need to defend an obvious murderer who was already thinking of his own survival after having shot "the love of his life" is beyond me......"I survive, i always win"...doesn't that say something to you.....that's not the person blubbing and puking up in court....that came from a calculator......Masipa was had.

I don't disagree he was calculating as he was thinking about everything he said in court. But the comment was not part of the prosecution case. You have to ask yourself why not? as it fits in so perfectly with Nel's narrative of a selfish murderer.

Since Nel introduced the zombie stopper why not this?

My guess..... it never happened.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I don't disagree he was calculating as he was thinking about everything he said in court. But the comment was not part of the prosecution case. You have to ask yourself why not? as it fits in so perfectly with Nel's narrative of a selfish murderer.

Since Nel introduced the zombie stopper why not this?

My guess..... it never happened.

Why should this conversation not have been true?
Probably BOTHA was the witness and what was going on with Botha you certainly know?

 

[Colin de France]

I don't disagree he was calculating as he was thinking about everything he said in court. But the comment was not part of the prosecution case. You have to ask yourself why not? as it fits in so perfectly with Nel's narrative of a selfish murderer.

Since Nel introduced the zombie stopper why not this?

My guess..... it never happened.

..when i read your post's i sometimes get the impression that you're not really sure of what you are saying as if you yourself have doubts about him.......if you look back to when he was in court, how many times did he refuse to awnser the question straight away, he just wasn't natural, he was calculating every single move, every statement, every puke and every tear......and i think you know this...

 

[Trotterly]

..when i read your post's i sometimes get the impression that you're not really sure of what you are saying as if you yourself have doubts about him.......if you look back to when he was in court, how many times did he refuse to awnser the question straight away, he just wasn't natural, he was calculating every single move, every statement, every puke and every tear......and i think you know this...

Of course I have doubts, I saw the same as you. No one disagrees that he was evasive and calculating. I don't believe the puking was faked though.

It was not natural but he was in a court defending a murder charge so that's not a natural situation. Defendants I have seen were not natural either.

He may have murdered Reeva, we don't know. But it was not proven, DD or DE.

 

[GR_Turner]

I don't disagree he was calculating as he was thinking about everything he said in court. But the comment was not part of the prosecution case. You have to ask yourself why not? as it fits in so perfectly with Nel's narrative of a selfish murderer.

Since Nel introduced the zombie stopper why not this?

My guess..... it never happened.

We don't even know whether this comment even happened. It wasn't introduced in court and if it came from Botha it can't be seen as trustworthy. Didn't Botha also mention OP's bloodied shirt in interviews after he was off the case (OP wasn't wearing a shirt). He actually made me laugh explaining how his officers tried to get in through the window and couldn't and so this proved that OP was lying, as though he had no idea at all about what OP's actual version of events was. Frightening to think he was the policeman in charge of the investigation.

 

[Colin de France]

Of course I have doubts, I saw the same as you. No one disagrees that he was evasive and calculating. I don't believe the puking was faked though.

It was not natural but he was in a court defending a murder charge so that's not a natural situation. Defendants I have seen were not natural either.

He may have murdered Reeva, we don't know. But it was not proven, DD or DE.

......i don't have any doubts whatsoever and i would gladly send him down for twenty years......go with the flow, an injustice has been done that's why there's such an outcry......it will soon be sorted though..

 

[Trotterly]

We don't even know whether this comment even happened. It wasn't introduced in court and if it came from Botha it can't be seen as trustworthy. Didn't Botha also mention OP's bloodied shirt in interviews after he was off the case (OP wasn't wearing a shirt). He actually made me laugh explaining how his officers tried to get in through the window and couldn't and so this proved that OP was lying, as though he had no idea at all about what OP's actual version of events was. Frightening to think he was the policeman in charge of the investigation.

Yes indeed. I recall the comment made during the enquiry into the Yorkshire Ripper investigation when it was pointed out that such police needed to be of the highest intellectual quality. Botha fell woefully short.

Mind you at least Botha knew there was a window in the toilet.

 

[Colin de France]

We don't even know whether this comment even happened. It wasn't introduced in court and if it came from Botha it can't be seen as trustworthy. Didn't Botha also mention OP's bloodied shirt in interviews after he was off the case (OP wasn't wearing a shirt). He actually made me laugh explaining how his officers tried to get in through the window and couldn't and so this proved that OP was lying, as though he had no idea at all about what OP's actual version of events was. Frightening to think he was the policeman in charge of the investigation.

...i don't know why a policeman would make up a lie about a statement so important as that....he would of been taking such a huge risk with his career......no, going by the obvious calculating personality of Pistorius i can quite easily see him making such a statement.....

 

[Trotterly]

......i don't have any doubts whatsoever and i would gladly send him down for twenty years......go with the flow, an injustice has been done that's why there's such an outcry......

I was going with the flow until the defence started. Then I started to have real doubts. But its more the legal process itself that fascinates me and how emotion needs to be kept right out of deliberations.

 

[Trotterly]

...i don't know why a policeman would make up a lie about a statement so important as that....he would of been taking such a huge risk with his career......no, going by the obvious calculating personality of Pistorius i can quite easily see him making such a statement.....

Do you know who he made the comment to?

 

[Colin de France]

I was going with the flow until the defence started. Then I started to have real doubts. But its more the legal process itself that fascinates me and how emotion needs to be kept right out of deliberations.

....all that effort just to convince one person......you can't beat a good jury...

 

[Colin de France]

Do you know who he made the comment to?

...someone mentioned senior officer......

 

[soozieqtips]

You may well have not meant this but please be careful about comments like this to other posters.

There's nothing wrong with saying "nobody who is fit in one's brain" as all it means is "nobody in their right mind". We have several posters here for whom English is not their native language, and the majority of us have no problem understanding the meaning of their posts. I don't understand your "be careful" comment.

 

[Colin de France]

.......apart from the colour of Pistorius socks in court about everything has been openly discussed except this person here..... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micki_Pistorius it's as if it's a no go area....or am i wrong.....

 

[Trotterly]

There's nothing wrong with saying "nobody who is fit in one's brain" as all it means is "nobody in their right mind". We have several posters here for whom English is not their native language, and the majority of us have no problem understanding the meaning of their posts. I don't understand your "be careful" comment.

I would just be careful as you never know who might be reading and what their experience of mental health might be. I know what the poster meant but the words could be construed as extremely offensive if misunderstood. Just friendly advice no big thing.

 

[Trotterly]

.......apart from the colour of Pistorius socks in court about everything has been openly discussed except this person here..... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micki_Pistorius it's as if it's a no go area....or am i wrong.....

There has been discussion elsewhere.

Did you know actor Woody Harrelson's father was a convicted contract killer?

 

[soozieqtips]

I would just be careful as you never know who might be reading and what their experience of mental health might be. I know what the poster meant but the words could be construed as extremely offensive if misunderstood. Just friendly advice no big thing.

It's a fairly common remark to make, so I have no idea why anyone might think it "extremely offensive". Anyone reading this site should know it incorporates many international posters and should therefore make allowances when English is not a poster's first language. Pointing out their post might cause offence (when the post was clearly not offensive in any way) can stop people from posting, which is really not helpful.

 

[aftermath]

We don't even know whether this comment even happened. It wasn't introduced in court and if it came from Botha it can't be seen as trustworthy. Didn't Botha also mention OP's bloodied shirt in interviews after he was off the case (OP wasn't wearing a shirt). He actually made me laugh explaining how his officers tried to get in through the window and couldn't and so this proved that OP was lying, as though he had no idea at all about what OP's actual version of events was. Frightening to think he was the policeman in charge of the investigation.

It's like he misunderstood what Pistorius was telling him. The Vanity Fair interview reads like he thought Pistorius was saying there was an intruder. Why see if someone could fit through the toilet window? (He can't have meant the bathroom window, as clearly it is big enough for anyone to climb through.) To fundamentally misunderstand what a main suspect in a homicide case is saying while he is still at the crime scene, and to make the decision it was murder based on that and not on any forensic/ballistic scrutiny is shocking!

I don't know that the 'I will survive' quote even came from Botha. In any case, an uncredited 'source' - possibly paid nicely for a juicy bit of Pistorius gossip- can hardly be given much credibility. Nel didn't even bother to mention it. Personally, I doubt it was actually said, but even if it was, with no idea of the context of the conversation, nothing reliable can be learned from it, IMO.

 

[Colin de France]

Personally, I doubt it was actually said, but even if it was, with no idea of the context of the conversation, nothing reliable can be learned from it, IMO.

...Are you saying that a senior member of the police has lied ? ....and i disagree completely, there's a lot to be learnt from it......it really doesn't fit in with his "the love of my life" (IE thinking of her), neither does it fit in with having shot anyone by accident, it's more like a statement from someone in big trouble such as murder or at the very least having done something seriously wrong......

 

[aftermath]

...Are you saying that a senior member of the police has lied ? ....and i disagree completely, there's a lot to be learnt from it......it really doesn't fit in with his "the love of my life", neither does it fit in with having shot anyone by accident, it's more like a statement from someone in big trouble such as murder or at the very least having done something seriously wrong......

No- I'm not saying a senior member of the police has lied. Where has it been stated that the 'i will survive' quote was reported by a senior police officer?

He did do something seriously wrong- whether you believe it was DD, DE or CH. So yes- if it was said at all, it certainly sounds like someone in trouble- which he was.

What was his emotional state when he allegedly said it? Who was in the room? How long had he been at the police station by this point? What was he saying it in response to? Without any context it is pretty meaningless- it certainly doesn't give any indication of whether or not he loved reeva steenkamp, or whether what he had done was a mistake or intentional.