Discussion Thread #61 ~ the appeal~

[aftermath]

...you don't sound too sure of yourself there....eleborate on the choice on the police than the internal security......

Why would I be sure of myself when discussing why someone else might have taken a particular course of action. As for elaborating on the police or internal security choice, what additional detail are you looking for?

 

[GR_Turner]

The whole point is that the `general idea` differs in a number of significant aspects to what he later said in court. And he had to give a detailed outline, not a general idea as you claim, otherwise the seriousness of the charge would have seen him remanded in custody.

No he didn't have to give details. Lawyers at the time pointed out that his approach in giving a detailed affidavit was highly unusual.

What other ways does it differ? Additions aren't differences, note.

 

[aftermath]

The whole point is that the `general idea` differs in a number of significant aspects to what he later said in court. And he had to give a detailed outline, not a general idea as you claim, otherwise the seriousness of the charge would have seen him remanded in custody.

What differences do you believe to be significant? The balcony detail?

 

[Colin de France]

There are indications that he was worried about security, enough to buy a gun and Sam Taylor said he investigated several possible intruder situations. I think he had got lax about security and it wasn't the obsession that the defense psychiatrist tried to suggest it was. But I've gone to sleep leaving things boiling on the hob and been woken up by the smoke so I can say for sure that sometimes tired people do fall asleep without planning everything thoroughly or at all even.

....yawn yawn....you're on the wrong side, you're obviously a clever person so let it go, stop making excuses for a murderer.....

 

[GR_Turner]

So which one do you think he lied in re the balcony? The bail statement or the one in court? Both can't be true.

I'd be inclined to think it was a mistake given all the other evidence that supports his version and the failure of the state to make their case. We know that he was very distressed at the time so it is possible that he just said he went the get the fan outside and it was written as went outside to get the fan. I really don't know how significant a court should find this.

 

[Colin de France]

Why would I be sure of myself when discussing why someone else might have taken a particular course of action. As for elaborating on the police or internal security choice, what additional detail are you looking for?

....don't you think it would be far more easier to simply push the alarm than phone the police.....of course you do ..

 

[lithgow1]

There are indications that he was worried about security, enough to buy a gun and Sam Taylor said he investigated several possible intruder situations. I think he had got lax about security and it wasn't the obsession that the defense psychiatrist tried to suggest it was. But I've gone to sleep leaving things boiling on the hob and been woken up by the smoke so I can say for sure that sometimes tired people do fall asleep without planning everything thoroughly or at all even.

So someone who says the below, from the bail app, gets lax eh. He says he was acutely aware and they also went to bed at 10, so it wasn`t like coming home from a late night when you may be a little more casual.

I am acutely aware of violent crime being committed by intruders entering homes with a view to commit crime, including violent crime. I have received death threats before. I have also been a victim of violence and of burglaries before. For that reason I kept my firearm, a 9mm Parabellum, underneath my bed when I went to bed at night

 

[Colin de France]

I'd be inclined to think it was a mistake given all the other evidence that supports his version and the failure of the state to make their case. We know that he was very distressed at the time so it is possible that he just said he went the get the fan outside and it was written as went outside to get the fan. I really don't know how significant a court should find this.

....playing for time until a better idea came along .....

 

[GR_Turner]

....yawn yawn....you're on the wrong side, you're obviously a clever person so let it go, stop making excuses for a murderer.....

Perhaps just don't reply if you find my posts boring? How about you let it go and stop trying to make excuses for an inadequate prosecution...?

 

[Colin de France]

Perhaps just don't reply if you find my posts boring? How about you let it go and stop trying to make excuses for an inadequate prosecution...?

......there we agree, about the prosecution that is .....

 

[GR_Turner]

....playing for time until a better idea came along .....

Going out onto the balcony actually would have been better if you think about it so he didn't actually help himself by saying that he just got the fan in. He could easily have said he just stepped out briefly or put his foot on the balcony. This change doesn't help him imo which is partly why I think it was probably just a misunderstanding.

 

[GR_Turner]

......there we agree, about the prosecution that is .....

Yess! Agreement at last!

 

[aftermath]

....don't you think it would be far more easier to simply push the alarm than phone the police.....

Depends what the alarm would do (ie silently alert estate security? Turn lights on in/outside of the house?/set off a siren?) and where the button was to trigger it.

I am not convinced I would like to be essentially trapped in a top floor suite with a probably-armed home invader who might get more aggravated at the sign of an alarm going off.

 

[Colin de France]

Going out onto the balcony actually would have been better if you think about it so he didn't actually help himself by saying that he just got the fan in. He could easily have said he just stepped out briefly or put his foot on the balcony. This change doesn't help him imo which is partly why I think it was probably just a misunderstanding.

....but i still can't see why he would bring the fan in or why it was outside in the first place.....

 

[lithgow1]

I'd be inclined to think it was a mistake given all the other evidence that supports his version and the failure of the state to make their case. We know that he was very distressed at the time so it is possible that he just said he went the get the fan outside and it was written as went outside to get the fan. I really don't know how significant a court should find this.

I am about to head off so will look into your query re the bail app vs court testimony sometime tomorrow but do you not recall the number of occasions when he was pressed about differences and he blamed it on his defence team, telling the court that he told them but for some reason they didn`t include it in the bail statement. It happened at least twice, maybe three times, and Nel was incredulous, pointing out that Roux was too experienced a lawyer to do that. Still Pistorius pressed on, blaming his legal advisors. You may have noticed over the course of the trial how good he is at blaming others.

 

[Colin de France]

Yess! Agreement at last!

....it's because i can feel you defecting .....and i too will catch you all tomorrow now heading off to the fireworks......revolution and all that ....

 

[GR_Turner]

So someone who says the below, from the bail app, gets lax eh. He says he was acutely aware and they also went to bed at 10, so it wasn`t like coming home from a late night when you may be a little more casual.

I am acutely aware of violent crime being committed by intruders entering homes with a view to commit crime, including violent crime. I have received death threats before. I have also been a victim of violence and of burglaries before. For that reason I kept my firearm, a 9mm Parabellum, underneath my bed when I went to bed at night

Yes, I think he was concerned but that that's an exaggeration tbh. I fell asleep at 6 when I left things on the hob - I was just tired. He had had a bad day from the sound of it so perhaps he was just tired.

 

[lithgow1]

Going out onto the balcony actually would have been better if you think about it so he didn't actually help himself by saying that he just got the fan in. He could easily have said he just stepped out briefly or put his foot on the balcony. This change doesn't help him imo which is partly why I think it was probably just a misunderstanding.

IIRC it was because police tests showed that the window opening could not be heard from out on the balcony so he needed to be inside the room.

 

[GR_Turner]

....it's because i can feel you defecting .....

you can live in hope...

 

[GR_Turner]

IIRC it was because police tests showed that the window opening could not be heard from out on the balcony so he needed to be inside the room.

No he heard the sound after he had brought the fan in so it would make no difference.