DNA links Denver burglary, child assault

[BrotherMoon]

She was wearing a beautiful PURPLE dress,

Thank you, thank you. :clap:

 

[Toth]

The dna meets the FBI standards for CODIS, ten out of 13 markers. Sure all 13 would have been nice to have, but . . . .

And if you think the dna in the panties came from a Vietnamese factory worker, please explain how his dna got under her fingernails. Its a really long way for JonBenet to have reached in order to scratch someone who is in Vietnam.

 

[Shylock]

And if you think the dna in the panties came from a Vietnamese factory worker, please explain how his dna got under her fingernails.

You have many choices you can make, Toth. Did the DNA come from the point of manufacture, or the point of sale? Did the DNA start out on the panties, or on the package and JB transfered it to both her fingernail and the panties when putting them on?
And JonBenet could have easily transfered some of the foreign DNA from the panties to under a fingernail by something as simple as wipeing herself after going to the bathroom.

When your talking about degraded DNA with no identifiable source, dozens of scenerios are equally possible. That's why this is not a DNA case.

 

[LovelyPigeon]

Would anyone make the same case for the burglar in the case that I posted to begin this thread?

He was in Denver, she was in Denver, she could have picked up his DNA anywhere?

When the DNA matches a male, do you think that male is likely to be arrested? or will LE ignore the fact that DNA in a murdered child's bloodstained panties "matches" the DNA of a male who's DNA is newly submitted to or newly compared to a data base? If the male was a resident of Boulder in 1996 or can be positively placed there visiting, etc will a DNA "match" just be blown off because they were both in the same town at the same time?

 

[Ivy]

Apples and oranges, LP. In the JonBenet case, the DNA sample was degraded and did not contain a full set of markers to link it to anyone in particular. If someday the DNA database gets a hit on the sample, it will only mean that someone's DNA in the database matched the 11 or so markers in the Ramsey sample. It won't mean he's the perp. It will take a lot more evidence than a 11-marker match to absolutely tie the guy to JonBenet's murder.

imo

 

[LovelyPigeon]

Not apples, not oranges, just DNA. 10 markers will be enough for arrest and for comparison in court.

The male "match" to the DNA will have handwriting and pubic hair comparison, too.

 

[Ivy]

Dream on, LP. There will never be a hit on the DNA database sample, because the "intruder" doesn't exist, except in the minds of the RST. The markers in the "foreign DNA" are likely nothing more than stutter/shadow bands, a common glitch in the amplification process. Or they are contaminants from any of a number of innocent sources.

As for the handwriting and the note, Patsy Ramsey wrote the note, and the so-called "pubic" hair was an ancillary hair belonging to Patsy Ramsey.

Edited to correct error. I originally posted that the hair was Melinda's. According to Troy Cowan, it was identified as Patsy's. (The palm print on the door was Melinda's.)

imo

 

[LovelyPigeon]

Oh, please, Ivy. The pubic or ancillary (body) hair did not match Patsy Ramsey or any other Ramsey. When ST wrote his book he was still calling it a "mystery" hair. ST even said that the there were other "unsourced hairs" on the white blanket beside the pubic hair.

PMPT said that the hair was initially theorized to belong to Melinda Ramsey but on microscopic comparison it wasn't even close.

That hair, and others, remain unsourced.

I've heard for years that this & that would "never happen". The DNA would never be good enough for CODIS comparison, there would be no more evidence of an intruder, the Rs wouldn't sue, ST would never settle the suit against him, blah blah blah

The DNA is good enough for CODIS standards and will be ongoing compared with the databank. That is factual.

 

[Shylock]

ST would never settle the suit against him, blah blah blah
The DNA is good enough for CODIS standards and will be ongoing compared with the databank. That is factual.

Since when did ST settle the suit against him? The way I heard it the publisher's insurance company settled it. All ST did was sign off on the agreement because it didn't cost him a penny, keep his book from being sold, or stop him from talking about it.

The DNA might be submitted to CODIS, but who cares? That doesn't prove there was an intruder, nor does it mean it is viable DNA. Just because the amplification process is able to produce a 10-marker stutter effect doesn't mean that a real human being exists with that DNA profile.
"CODIS" does not make this a DNA case by ANY stretch of the imagination.

 

[LovelyPigeon]

ST solicited funds for a fight in court. He sure didn't need those funds for his publishing company which provided their own lawyer/s.

ST could have fought the suit directed at him in court, but chose not to regardless of his promises to the contrary.

CODIS doesn't accept DNA with less than 10 markers. The FBI doesn't fool around with "less than viable" DNA samples. Like it or not, there is male DNA in JonBenét's panties that is of sufficient sample for the FBI's consideration...and that male DNA is consistent with male DNA found her her fingernails.

 

[Ivy]

LP...who BESIDES LIN WOOD says the panties DNA is consistent with the fingernails DNA?

imo

 

[Ivy]

Yeah, yeah, LovelyPigeon, I know Lou Smit says the ancillary hair didn't match any of the Ramseys, but Troy Cowan says it has been matched to Patsy. Although I'm sure you'd sooner believe Smit than believe someone who doesn't know squat about blue skin streaks caused by stun guns, do you know if any of the blanket hairs are consistent with each other? Regardless, like the "mystery" DNA, the hairs could have come from any of a variety of innocent sources. Since they probably adhered to the blanket when it was in the washer or dryer before it was removed from the dryer to place over JonBenet's body, the hairs could have even been those of past houseguests of the Ramseys.

Btw, the DNA was NOT good enough for CODIS comparison until it was artificially enhanced to provide enough markers to (barely) qualify. The DNA is bogus, just like the so-called intruder.

imo

 

[Shylock]

ST solicited funds for a fight in court. He sure didn't need those funds for his publishing company which provided their own lawyer/s.

ST could have fought the suit directed at him in court, but chose not to regardless of his promises to the contrary.

CODIS doesn't accept DNA with less than 10 markers. The FBI doesn't fool around with "less than viable" DNA samples. Like it or not, there is male DNA in JonBenét's panties that is of sufficient sample for the FBI's consideration...and that male DNA is consistent with male DNA found her her fingernails.

What does ST soliciting funds have to do with the resolution of the suit? ST didn't initiate the suit, and therefore was under no obligation to continue it once a settlement was reached that allowed him to walk away like the suit had never even happened. He promised his supporters he would stand up against a frivilous suit that violated his constitutional right to free speach--he did exactly that, and he won.

This statement is wrong and misleading: "The FBI doesn't fool around with "less than viable" DNA samples." The FBI doesn't even consider whether DNA samples are "viable" and that they have an identifiable source. If they did, the Ramsey DNA would have been rejected on the spot. All that is required by CODIS is that 10 markers are available. If those 10 markers are from contamination, or from equipment malfunction, or a mixture of more than one donor--the FBI could care less. It's not the job of the FBI CODIS database to analize case-specific viability.

 

[Toth]

Equipment contamination. Thats good!
Separate equipment in separate labs operated by separate personnel yet each sample is supposedly contaminated by the exact same material.

 

[Shylock]

Equipment contamination. Thats good!
Separate equipment in separate labs operated by separate personnel yet each sample is supposedly contaminated by the exact same material.

Read it again, Toth. It says "equipment malfunction", not contamination.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the FBI isn't going to be responsible for other people's errors...

"Separate equipment in separate labs operated by separate personnel", Really? Got a source for that information Toth? Or is that just more swamp scum you felt like poluting this forum with?

 

[LovelyPigeon]

Ivy, it was Lou Smit who first made the information public about the DNA under the nails and in the panties being consistent. It hasn't been denied by anyone in the case since.

Amplification is a good thing. I don't know why you keep trying to make it sound like it's something bad. It's a wonderful, useful scientific tool.

TC has no connection to the Ramsey case and his opinions are just his opinions. His opinion about the pubic hair's owner is contradicted by all information about the hair.

 

[LovelyPigeon]

For a sample to be "viable" for inclusion and comparison in the FBI's CODIS databank it must have a minimum of 10 markers.

The male DNA from the 2nd spot of blood on the panties has 10 markers.

 

[Barbara]

Ivy, it was Lou Smit who first made the information public about the DNA under the nails and in the panties being consistent. It hasn't been denied by anyone in the case since.

Amplification is a good thing. I don't know why you keep trying to make it sound like it's something bad. It's a wonderful, useful scientific tool.

TC has no connection to the Ramsey case and his opinions are just his opinions. His opinion about the pubic hair's owner is contradicted by all information about the hair.

Given that rationale, the palm print and ancillary hair reported to be Melinda's and Patsy's respectively also has NOT been denied by anyone other than those on the forums. Lin Wood himself has not denied this.

BTW, it was also Lou Smit who insisted that the Air Taser was used on JBR, only later to state that it might not be the Air Taser after all, ALSO without providing a viable alternative.

 

[little1]

Dream on, LP. There will never be a hit on the DNA database sample, because the "intruder" doesn't exist, except in the minds of the RST. The markers in the "foreign DNA" are likely nothing more than stutter/shadow bands, a common glitch in the amplification process. Or they are contaminants from any of a number of innocent sources.

As for the handwriting and the note, Patsy Ramsey wrote the note, and the so-called "pubic" hair was an ancillary hair belonging to Patsy Ramsey.

Edited to correct error. I originally posted that the hair was Melinda's. According to Troy Cowan, it was identified as Patsy's. (The palm print on the door was Melinda's.)

imo

I have not read or heard anything stating that the pubic hair is PR's, please provide something that does prove it. I have read in many places that the pubic hair doesn'tt match any of the R's. Also, someone here theother day said that the partial plam print was not connt. to them either.

 

[Britt]

Given that rationale, the palm print and ancillary hair reported to be Melinda's and Patsy's respectively also has NOT been denied by anyone other than those on the forums. Lin Wood himself has not denied this.

BTW, it was also Lou Smit who insisted that the Air Taser was used on JBR, only later to state that it might not be the Air Taser after all, ALSO without providing a viable alternative.

Another great post, Barbara. I think I'll just follow you around today and applaud :clap: