I don't think they swabbed the steering wheel. They did the driver and passenger handles inside and out. Only THs DNA was found on inside driver handle. They did many swabs inside the vehicle, I do wonder what the reason of not doing the steering wheel was.
DNA: What does the evidence say?
- Thread starter shadowraiths
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I don't think they swabbed the steering wheel. They did the driver and passenger handles inside and out. Only THs DNA was found on inside driver handle. They did many swabs inside the vehicle, I do wonder what the reason of not doing the steering wheel was.
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Afraid they might find Colborn's prints lol ?
Justiceseeker35
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Exactly! If SA is bleeding all over the place and was the last person to drive the car he would have left finger prints or blood dna on the steering wheel. Is the car still in evidence or has it been crushed/tossed?
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I read an article the other day that said they still have all the evidence. All the smaller stuff is held at the Manitowoc County Clerks office... this is where the crowdfunders are getting all the transcripts/exhibits from. The larger items are held in a "secure" LE place, sorry, can't remember which one.
btw... the photo exhibits apparently are over $7 (would be $13 Canadian, cuz we suck LOL) to get! ridiculous lol
btw... the photo exhibits apparently are over $7 (would be $13 Canadian, cuz we suck LOL) to get! ridiculous lol
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Oww I just read all the dna evidence and my brain hurts, I'm on information overload for sure but there's several places where unidentified male dna was found. From what I gathered they collected swabs from the patriarchal members of the Avery family and some of the women. Perhaps if some of the other possible person of interests dna were checked against these old dna findings there would be some matches where matches shouldn't be possible if SA was guilty. And just FWIW the neck piece of the lanyard was not in the evidence list for dna testing. But the hand cuffs and leg irons were and it wasn't TH's dna on them but unknown contributors.
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Justiceseeker ~ did you happen to take note of the area's where unidentified male dna was found? I think one was A23, was on the back door. Any others?
I also remember reading that TH's dna was found on one door.... I meant to go back and look to see which one. Interesting that her's was found on one but no others (SA or whoever didn't touch that one so didn't wipe it down?)
I also remember reading that TH's dna was found on one door.... I meant to go back and look to see which one. Interesting that her's was found on one but no others (SA or whoever didn't touch that one so didn't wipe it down?)
MysticJynx
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WHICH EVIDENCE WAS PLANTED and or tampered with?
1. The car (11/3 late night to early morning 11/5) Found on 11/5 about 10:30am
Technically found 11/3 by Sgt AC. He did call in and RAN PLATES Sam william henry 582
and knew it was the back of a 99' Toyota. Where was he when he called in these plates
what was he looking at when reading them off? This sets up the Crime of opportunity to
frame SA who was suing the whole county and may have continued to personally sue those
involved in his first wrongful conviction.
2. His blood in the car (11/3 late night to early morning 11/5) Found in car after opened at crime lab 11/5 Probably during Sgt AC's day off on the 4th. get things together and set for planting.
Possibly even burning the remains himself. To try to hide any DNA that would have pointed away
from SA.
3. The Camera PDA Phone Barrel by SA's home (11/3 late night to 11/7) Found 11/7
Used one barrel to move the bones, and placed the camera,
phone, pda and other belongings in an already used burn barrel they switched this barrel with the
one infront of averys probably very early nov 5. right after Avery left that morning. It is hard
to believe that they didnt even look in the burn barrel the first day on the lot. I believe someon
in one of the first interviews with the Dassey's, said they had used one of the burn barrels, behind
The Janda Residence probably Nov 3 or so. Something like that. Think it may have been BLD. And
I think it was BoD that said there were 3 barrels back there. not four.
4. The Plates to her car (11/3 late night to 11/8) Found 11/8.
Well we know Sgt. AC called them in. They did not want to create any confusion about that known
recorded call of him running the plates. this gives him an Alibi of this call. Hide them in a
closer car to his home thus the likelihood that people would think he actually was looking at the
car when he called in those plates.
5. The Key (Planted 11/8) found 11/8
Well when nothing is pointing to inside the house in the first
2 days of searching they needed another connection to the car they planted the blood evidence in.
When they first found her car they found the spare key she possibly kept in the car or her purse.
This was a singular key to her car that would usually be attached to the lanyard that was still in
the console of her car. As a photographer I see teresa keeping this in the car or her purse so
when she is on a wedding shoot that may take a long time she can lock her belongins within her
car and wear the extra one around her neck while shes busy shooting an event. The question is
what happen to the other keys?
6. The Bones (11/3 late night to 11/8) Found 11/8 supposedly in the burn pit.
No photo evidence. This was IMPORTANT EVIDENCE. THE MOST IMPORTANT. Teresa herself. Deviated
from protocol. Did not call the coroner. Did not contact an anthropologist to grid the evidence.
There is really no proof that they even found the bones there. All I have seen pictures of are
things that don't add up. The bench and Tire belts in the pit were not even in the pit. There
are unmelted plastic handled and non-burnt wood tools under and around this area she was supposedly
burnt at. Lets not forget the FACT that the bones were moved. They were found in more than one
place, Correct? we just dont know who, when and how they were moved. But at least some of the bones
we can agree were moved, right? The Fact that they were moved, does suggest that the spot moved to
would have the majority of the bones. After they placed the bones in what they thought
was the middle of the pit.
7. The Bullet (planted 3/1/06) found 3/2/06
Such a teeny amount of DNA found and analyst contaminated the manipulation control. Deviated from
Protocol CONTAMINATED even if it was planted it should never have been used anyway. I do think that
JL and AC and two others possibly were in charge of this.
It was dark that night on March 1st that they went to his garage. Think someone could have planted
it easily. Since he had his one Cal. Co. guard dog. Watching not him but others so he could help
the big dogs plant it. There was also no blood visible to the eye on this Fragment of a bullet.
Also this bullet could only be said by ballistics is that it was shot from a .22 like the one found
on his property, that he did not have dna on that either. Also this gun was never sent for finger
printing. Another Deviation of an investigation. Had gun and bullets since Nov 2005. DNA Testing on
the .22 rifle was not SA's.
8. The DNA on the hood (Planted between 11/3/05 - 4/3/06) Found when it was later swabbed april 06.
They knew back in late 2005 when they processed the vehicle at the crime lab that the battery was
disconnected. Suggesting that someone was under her hood. Why would they have not swabbed that hood latch at that time? Then even after the BD confession they still don't swab it for a month. Question I have is they wait so long cause they were so certain that evidence would have TH's DNA on it. If So how did they know. How long before this swabbing did the state find out the test on the bullet was contaminated and may not be able to use that. Culhane's deviateion was dated 4-10-06. Seems like they keep planting things, when the evidence they have is questionable and they know it. The report. she wrote about the bullet was dated May 8, 2005. She did however write a report for Mar 31 2006, just prior to the deviation of protocol. I bet she tested that bullet
before they decided to swab the vehicle. They had a month since the confession to do those things.
Why did they wait so long?
We will also include the phone records that were doctored by her close friend. The first the officers were going on from their printed version of TH's phone bill did not even list her last two calls of the day. Also writing the name of the last caller on a part of the bill that was actually his sisters number.Pointing detectives the very first night to SA. Also there are calls shown on TH's bill that are not in the states summary, no explanation of the 1 an hour call that stopped after 2:41. And they add information about her morning calls that were not shown on her record. So maybe not planted but OMITTED. Such as the person who called in and deleted her VM at 8am on November second.
What was not planted but did not prove murder other than the ones above in question?
The Gun that was said to belong to the man who own the trailer and property.
The Shell Casings that were found all over the garage.
The fact that he may have had a bonfire in a pit meant to have bonfires in.
The fact that he did call her to set up an appointment and then called her an additional 3 times
twice using a privacy feature and once without it after she left. They did have a meeting to
get the pictures done on the car.
What else?
1. The car (11/3 late night to early morning 11/5) Found on 11/5 about 10:30am
Technically found 11/3 by Sgt AC. He did call in and RAN PLATES Sam william henry 582
and knew it was the back of a 99' Toyota. Where was he when he called in these plates
what was he looking at when reading them off? This sets up the Crime of opportunity to
frame SA who was suing the whole county and may have continued to personally sue those
involved in his first wrongful conviction.
2. His blood in the car (11/3 late night to early morning 11/5) Found in car after opened at crime lab 11/5 Probably during Sgt AC's day off on the 4th. get things together and set for planting.
Possibly even burning the remains himself. To try to hide any DNA that would have pointed away
from SA.
3. The Camera PDA Phone Barrel by SA's home (11/3 late night to 11/7) Found 11/7
Used one barrel to move the bones, and placed the camera,
phone, pda and other belongings in an already used burn barrel they switched this barrel with the
one infront of averys probably very early nov 5. right after Avery left that morning. It is hard
to believe that they didnt even look in the burn barrel the first day on the lot. I believe someon
in one of the first interviews with the Dassey's, said they had used one of the burn barrels, behind
The Janda Residence probably Nov 3 or so. Something like that. Think it may have been BLD. And
I think it was BoD that said there were 3 barrels back there. not four.
4. The Plates to her car (11/3 late night to 11/8) Found 11/8.
Well we know Sgt. AC called them in. They did not want to create any confusion about that known
recorded call of him running the plates. this gives him an Alibi of this call. Hide them in a
closer car to his home thus the likelihood that people would think he actually was looking at the
car when he called in those plates.
5. The Key (Planted 11/8) found 11/8
Well when nothing is pointing to inside the house in the first
2 days of searching they needed another connection to the car they planted the blood evidence in.
When they first found her car they found the spare key she possibly kept in the car or her purse.
This was a singular key to her car that would usually be attached to the lanyard that was still in
the console of her car. As a photographer I see teresa keeping this in the car or her purse so
when she is on a wedding shoot that may take a long time she can lock her belongins within her
car and wear the extra one around her neck while shes busy shooting an event. The question is
what happen to the other keys?
6. The Bones (11/3 late night to 11/8) Found 11/8 supposedly in the burn pit.
No photo evidence. This was IMPORTANT EVIDENCE. THE MOST IMPORTANT. Teresa herself. Deviated
from protocol. Did not call the coroner. Did not contact an anthropologist to grid the evidence.
There is really no proof that they even found the bones there. All I have seen pictures of are
things that don't add up. The bench and Tire belts in the pit were not even in the pit. There
are unmelted plastic handled and non-burnt wood tools under and around this area she was supposedly
burnt at. Lets not forget the FACT that the bones were moved. They were found in more than one
place, Correct? we just dont know who, when and how they were moved. But at least some of the bones
we can agree were moved, right? The Fact that they were moved, does suggest that the spot moved to
would have the majority of the bones. After they placed the bones in what they thought
was the middle of the pit.
7. The Bullet (planted 3/1/06) found 3/2/06
Such a teeny amount of DNA found and analyst contaminated the manipulation control. Deviated from
Protocol CONTAMINATED even if it was planted it should never have been used anyway. I do think that
JL and AC and two others possibly were in charge of this.
It was dark that night on March 1st that they went to his garage. Think someone could have planted
it easily. Since he had his one Cal. Co. guard dog. Watching not him but others so he could help
the big dogs plant it. There was also no blood visible to the eye on this Fragment of a bullet.
Also this bullet could only be said by ballistics is that it was shot from a .22 like the one found
on his property, that he did not have dna on that either. Also this gun was never sent for finger
printing. Another Deviation of an investigation. Had gun and bullets since Nov 2005. DNA Testing on
the .22 rifle was not SA's.
8. The DNA on the hood (Planted between 11/3/05 - 4/3/06) Found when it was later swabbed april 06.
They knew back in late 2005 when they processed the vehicle at the crime lab that the battery was
disconnected. Suggesting that someone was under her hood. Why would they have not swabbed that hood latch at that time? Then even after the BD confession they still don't swab it for a month. Question I have is they wait so long cause they were so certain that evidence would have TH's DNA on it. If So how did they know. How long before this swabbing did the state find out the test on the bullet was contaminated and may not be able to use that. Culhane's deviateion was dated 4-10-06. Seems like they keep planting things, when the evidence they have is questionable and they know it. The report. she wrote about the bullet was dated May 8, 2005. She did however write a report for Mar 31 2006, just prior to the deviation of protocol. I bet she tested that bullet
before they decided to swab the vehicle. They had a month since the confession to do those things.
Why did they wait so long?
We will also include the phone records that were doctored by her close friend. The first the officers were going on from their printed version of TH's phone bill did not even list her last two calls of the day. Also writing the name of the last caller on a part of the bill that was actually his sisters number.Pointing detectives the very first night to SA. Also there are calls shown on TH's bill that are not in the states summary, no explanation of the 1 an hour call that stopped after 2:41. And they add information about her morning calls that were not shown on her record. So maybe not planted but OMITTED. Such as the person who called in and deleted her VM at 8am on November second.
What was not planted but did not prove murder other than the ones above in question?
The Gun that was said to belong to the man who own the trailer and property.
The Shell Casings that were found all over the garage.
The fact that he may have had a bonfire in a pit meant to have bonfires in.
The fact that he did call her to set up an appointment and then called her an additional 3 times
twice using a privacy feature and once without it after she left. They did have a meeting to
get the pictures done on the car.
What else?
Justiceseeker35
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I'm not sure, I think I need to make a spread sheet what matched who and what was unknown, there was so much. More than I realized they swabbed.
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After re-reading the testimony from Culhane last night.... the key, the latch, and the bullet ALL had so very little DNA on them, that I think the possibility of just cross-contamination needs to be explored, whether it was from not changing gloves, touching one thing and then touching the other, or maybe just some issues in the lab. I am not sure that any planting was needed on those items. I find it suspicious, or maybe convenient.
MysticJynx
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MysticJynx
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http://www.buting.com/Probe-of-Crime-Lab-Requested.pdf
Someone was even drunk at the lab when they had evidence from this case in 2006 at that lab.
*A DNA analyst was suspended for two days for being drunk on the job in 2006. The
misconduct occurred around the same time and in the same laboratory where evidence in the
Avery case was analyzed, Buting said.
Justiceseeker35
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I just wanted to add something else of note regarding the planting of blood. Inside his car, the one he drove there was blood drops taken in swabs as well and also blood drop swabs from his bathroom. I truthfully wondered why they would plant blood drops in TH car but wondered if they got the idea now from the blood drops in his car. I think I need to further explore this. I can't find any reports stating who collected what dna/blood swabs and what the chain of custody for these are. And was all this analysis done by the lady who was told to place her in his house or garage?
MysticJynx
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Culhane, the DNA analyst collected the blood stain swabs from the RAV4 and I believe SA's Grand Am. Will see if I can find it again.
ETA: Day 10 Page 133 she talks about the first time she seen the RAV4 on November 7th in the crime lab. If you do a CTRL+F and search for RAV4, it's much easier to find
ETAA: Page 172 she says she swabbed the Grand AM.
oh and Tyson did the swab of the latch in April 2006
ETA: Day 10 Page 133 she talks about the first time she seen the RAV4 on November 7th in the crime lab. If you do a CTRL+F and search for RAV4, it's much easier to find
ETAA: Page 172 she says she swabbed the Grand AM.
oh and Tyson did the swab of the latch in April 2006
All I can find about a23 is that it was swabbed from the outside of the rear door, which tested positive as blood. I don't see where it was contributed to an unidentified male. Can you please tell me where to find that info?
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ahhh it had incomplete DNA.
There was unidentifiable male DNA somewhere lol
Will be interesting to see what Zellner thinks needs testing or retesting (her recent comments). I can think of lots of spots that I don't think were swabbed in the RAV4.
MysticJynx
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Exhibit 311 Culhane DNA report...
A23: Swabbing from rear exterior door handle of Cargo Door.
Chemical analysis of reddish/brown questioned stain of item A23 indicated the presence of blood.
Exhibit 313 Culhane DNA report...
Chemical Analysis of the reddish/brown questioned stain of item A23 previously indicated the presence of blood (report nov 14 2005)
In addition Human DNA isolation was also preformed on A23
Partial DNA profile was obtained from Item A23. Due to the limited generic information
this profile is insufficient for interpretation.
Item CX from the quarry obtained an unknown Male.
Exhibit 313 Culhane report
Item CX questioned stain reportedly recovered from "quarry south of Avery Rd" (Tag# 8008)
Chemical analysis of the reddish/brown questioned stain of item CX indicated presence of blood
Human deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) was isolated and subsequently typed from the following questioned sample; Item CX. The profile developed from these samples are listed in the following tables. (See report to see tables)
The profile developed from item CX is not consistent with the buccal cell standards of AA (item AY) BryD (item BS) or SA (Item BU). This profile is consistent with a male individual.
The profile developed from item CH not consistent with the buccal cell standards of AA (item AY), BryD (item BS), or SA (item BU). This profile is consistent with a different male individual than item CX. (CH was later determined to be CA's. CX I believe is still unknown.)
AA, BryD, SA, are eliminated as possible sources of DNA from the reddish/brown stain
of item CX.
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I came across this thread on reddit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMur...i_work_in_genetics_my_take_on_the_flawed_dna/
Some of it is technical and I am not even pretending to understand it all LOL But even the contaminated bullet test is talked about. Thought some of you might find it interesting.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMur...i_work_in_genetics_my_take_on_the_flawed_dna/
Some of it is technical and I am not even pretending to understand it all LOL But even the contaminated bullet test is talked about. Thought some of you might find it interesting.
dexter75
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dexter75
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Who was just there to " assist " in case equipment was needed, etc. 
Some were collected by Sgt AC.
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