DNA: What does the evidence say?

Not crazy at all to me,

when you stop and realize LE had DAYS after they made SA and family leave property.
So that works both ways. If there was someone else moving bones, the same thing is said for them. The point is someone had the opportunity to move bones around no matter what you believe, or who you believe did it. It was done so the opportunity to do so was there.

There was also no DNA from anyone else in her vehicle. So the real killer and the "planter" were able to move about stealthily planting and moving evidence about while leaving no trace of themselves and no one seeing them. It's all absurd to me the same way some think it's crazy SA would leave bones in his burn pit.
 
Thank you, well done.
:woot:
WHICH EVIDENCE WAS PLANTED and or tampered with?

1. The car (11/3 late night to early morning 11/5) Found on 11/5 about 10:30am
Technically found 11/3 by Sgt AC. He did call in and RAN PLATES Sam william henry 582
and knew it was the back of a 99' Toyota. Where was he when he called in these plates
what was he looking at when reading them off? This sets up the Crime of opportunity to
frame SA who was suing the whole county and may have continued to personally sue those
involved in his first wrongful conviction.

2. His blood in the car (11/3 late night to early morning 11/5) Found in car after opened at crime lab 11/5 Probably during Sgt AC's day off on the 4th. get things together and set for planting.
Possibly even burning the remains himself. To try to hide any DNA that would have pointed away
from SA.

3. The Camera PDA Phone Barrel by SA's home (11/3 late night to 11/7) Found 11/7
Used one barrel to move the bones, and placed the camera,
phone, pda and other belongings in an already used burn barrel they switched this barrel with the
one infront of averys probably very early nov 5. right after Avery left that morning. It is hard
to believe that they didnt even look in the burn barrel the first day on the lot. I believe someon
in one of the first interviews with the Dassey's, said they had used one of the burn barrels, behind
The Janda Residence probably Nov 3 or so. Something like that. Think it may have been BLD. And
I think it was BoD that said there were 3 barrels back there. not four.

4. The Plates to her car (11/3 late night to 11/8) Found 11/8.
Well we know Sgt. AC called them in. They did not want to create any confusion about that known
recorded call of him running the plates. this gives him an Alibi of this call. Hide them in a
closer car to his home thus the likelihood that people would think he actually was looking at the
car when he called in those plates.

5. The Key (Planted 11/8) found 11/8
Well when nothing is pointing to inside the house in the first
2 days of searching they needed another connection to the car they planted the blood evidence in.
When they first found her car they found the spare key she possibly kept in the car or her purse.
This was a singular key to her car that would usually be attached to the lanyard that was still in
the console of her car. As a photographer I see teresa keeping this in the car or her purse so
when she is on a wedding shoot that may take a long time she can lock her belongins within her
car and wear the extra one around her neck while shes busy shooting an event. The question is
what happen to the other keys?

6. The Bones (11/3 late night to 11/8) Found 11/8 supposedly in the burn pit.
No photo evidence. This was IMPORTANT EVIDENCE. THE MOST IMPORTANT. Teresa herself. Deviated
from protocol. Did not call the coroner. Did not contact an anthropologist to grid the evidence.
There is really no proof that they even found the bones there. All I have seen pictures of are
things that don't add up. The bench and Tire belts in the pit were not even in the pit. There
are unmelted plastic handled and non-burnt wood tools under and around this area she was supposedly
burnt at. Lets not forget the FACT that the bones were moved. They were found in more than one
place, Correct? we just dont know who, when and how they were moved. But at least some of the bones
we can agree were moved, right? The Fact that they were moved, does suggest that the spot moved to
would have the majority of the bones. After they placed the bones in what they thought
was the middle of the pit.

7. The Bullet (planted 3/1/06) found 3/2/06
Such a teeny amount of DNA found and analyst contaminated the manipulation control. Deviated from
Protocol CONTAMINATED even if it was planted it should never have been used anyway. I do think that
JL and AC and two others possibly were in charge of this.
It was dark that night on March 1st that they went to his garage. Think someone could have planted
it easily. Since he had his one Cal. Co. guard dog. Watching not him but others so he could help
the big dogs plant it. There was also no blood visible to the eye on this Fragment of a bullet.
Also this bullet could only be said by ballistics is that it was shot from a .22 like the one found
on his property, that he did not have dna on that either. Also this gun was never sent for finger
printing. Another Deviation of an investigation. Had gun and bullets since Nov 2005. DNA Testing on
the .22 rifle was not SA's.

8. The DNA on the hood (Planted between 11/3/05 - 4/3/06) Found when it was later swabbed april 06.
They knew back in late 2005 when they processed the vehicle at the crime lab that the battery was
disconnected. Suggesting that someone was under her hood. Why would they have not swabbed that hood latch at that time? Then even after the BD confession they still don't swab it for a month. Question I have is they wait so long cause they were so certain that evidence would have TH's DNA on it. If So how did they know. How long before this swabbing did the state find out the test on the bullet was contaminated and may not be able to use that. Culhane's deviateion was dated 4-10-06. Seems like they keep planting things, when the evidence they have is questionable and they know it. The report. she wrote about the bullet was dated May 8, 2005. She did however write a report for Mar 31 2006, just prior to the deviation of protocol. I bet she tested that bullet
before they decided to swab the vehicle. They had a month since the confession to do those things.
Why did they wait so long?



We will also include the phone records that were doctored by her close friend. The first the officers were going on from their printed version of TH's phone bill did not even list her last two calls of the day. Also writing the name of the last caller on a part of the bill that was actually his sisters number.Pointing detectives the very first night to SA. Also there are calls shown on TH's bill that are not in the states summary, no explanation of the 1 an hour call that stopped after 2:41. And they add information about her morning calls that were not shown on her record. So maybe not planted but OMITTED. Such as the person who called in and deleted her VM at 8am on November second.



What was not planted but did not prove murder other than the ones above in question?

The Gun that was said to belong to the man who own the trailer and property.

The Shell Casings that were found all over the garage.

The fact that he may have had a bonfire in a pit meant to have bonfires in.

The fact that he did call her to set up an appointment and then called her an additional 3 times
twice using a privacy feature and once without it after she left. They did have a meeting to
get the pictures done on the car.

What else?
 
The HEAT/FIRE it would take to reduce her poor body to what it was and it wouldn't affect that propane tank or shed? ( have no idea, I'm asking? )
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Thank you, well done.
:woot:
That was a very informative summary. I'd love to know how they convinced the Calumet county investigators to deviate so far from protocol in reference to the bones. That would lead me to believe Manitowoc really called all shots.
 
That was a very informative summary. I'd love to know how they convinced the Calumet county investigators to deviate so far from protocol in reference to the bones. That would lead me to believe Manitowoc really called all shots.

Well in one of KK's opening or closing arguments he does say he was just doing Manitowoc a FAVOR! And KK may have needed the favor returned someday, Like when he got caught sexually harassing a victim of Domestic Violence. I'll scratch your back for this misconduct and corruption, but remember me when I am accused of the same. Also something I read was they were not the Lead investigators. Manitowoc never recused themselves. They were getting mutual aid from Calumet.

Also the state was due to be losing more money since Avery's Bill past. The bill was supposed to compensate those wrongfully convicted with 25k per year in jail. not 5k. Someone posted an article from 2014. Wisconsin is still only paying the 5k per year for wrongfully convicted. So I'm wondering why the state signed this bill then didn't actually stick by it.

I'm starting to think that the corruption goes all the way up into the DOJ.

Wisconsin may not have been happy with the bill that would also make them pay more money to people like Steve Avery who spent time wrongfully convicted in prison.
 
I think that they staged the Key too. In the picture I am posting Which I also posted in the key thread shows the differences of slippers as they walked into that bedroom. The picture on the left I believe was Nov 5th or 6th. The first of the searches. The chair with the clothing is turned in a different direction, The statue of a dog is on the floor the slippers were behind it. like in the one picture we see of the slippers together next to the shelf. The second picture on the right I think was when they were entering the room on Nov 8th. If you look at the pictures between the first set and the last one of the key. The dog statue is still there. However when they walked into that bedroom that day on Nov 8, 2005 that dog was not there. They staged that key too, IMO.
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http://wrongfulconvictionsblog.org/2013/06/28/how-innocent-mans-dna-was-found-at-killing-scene/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/26331369/

I thought this was an interesting example of how secondary DNA can play a part in finding a suspect. Luckily this guy had such an alibi! While I understand the differences between this case and Avery's, it's not an absolute untruth that DNA can be transferred (like the tech that didn't switch gloves when testing Teresa's car)
 
Kathleen Zellner ‏@ZellnerLaw 17m17 minutes ago
Tunnel vision clear in TH case. No DNA taken except from SA family. No need to take DNA from others when planted. #MakingAMurderer

I can somewhat understand this.... because of where it was found. But there was at least 1 that we know of that didn't match.... I think in the quarry? an unknown male IIRC.

Also... the fingerprints that were on the RAV4 but not matched, why wouldn't they run those against a database or something? Weren't told too? May not have come up with a match anyway, but I think they should have at least tried? lol

And the DNA samples sent to the FBI.... did the FBI verify the DNA sample as well? with a match to SA? I have wondered this before... then I get sidetracked and forget to go looking to see if there is an answer somewhere lol
 
Kathleen Zellner ‏@ZellnerLaw 17m17 minutes ago
Tunnel vision clear in TH case. No DNA taken except from SA family. No need to take DNA from others when planted. #MakingAMurderer

I can somewhat understand this.... because of where it was found. But there was at least 1 that we know of that didn't match.... I think in the quarry? an unknown male IIRC.

Also... the fingerprints that were on the RAV4 but not matched, why wouldn't they run those against a database or something? Weren't told too? May not have come up with a match anyway, but I think they should have at least tried? lol

And the DNA samples sent to the FBI.... did the FBI verify the DNA sample as well? with a match to SA? I have wondered this before... then I get sidetracked and forget to go looking to see if there is an answer somewhere lol

Blood in quarry is ITEM CX, it is a mans DNA and does not match any of the Averys.
 
Blood in quarry is ITEM CX, it is a mans DNA and does not match any of the Averys.

Thanks Mystic! Things are just getting squishy in my brain hahaha

I think there was some partial profiles elsewhere too... will have to go review those reports again. I wonder if Zellner has been doing some testing, would we know? I was thinking we would because she would need permission but maybe she has access to the evidence now that she is the lawyer on record for SA.
 
What is unusual about objects being moved around during searches?
 
I have found this and would like it to be cleared up if possible as I'm really clueless when it comes to science :innocent:

I found this, the State's Memorandum regarding motions filed by the defense about prior conviction and inmate statements. The link is here.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...o-Re-Motions-in-Limine-and-Correspondence.pdf

Anyway, it says this in one part.

Importantly, there is no evidence suggesting that Manitowoc County retained (or ever
had in its possession) any of Steven Avery's blood; it is only blood from Steven Avery
that could have been "planted" in this case, as that bodily fluid was the most prevalent
source of DNA extracted in this case. Any DNA sample previously provided by
Avery by use of "buccal swabs" is factually inconsequential. Without proof that a law
enforcement agency ever had Avery's blood, the "planting" defense necessarily fails;
without the means to plant evidence. the Manitowoc County Sheriff's Department,
even assuming they harbored ill will toward Steven Avery, failed to possess the
instrumentality necessary to "set up" Mr. Avery in this homicide investigation.


Are they claiming they don't have SA's blood? We know it's a lie now but I found it quite interesting. So it was up to the defense to find it and what if they didn't? Would they still claim they had no blood?

I don't really think the bullet should've been admitted as evidence as it was contaminated. I know she could exclude her own DNA but it was still contaminated.

Also, I don't really find the sweat underneath the hood of TH's car to be that interesting. I think it's entirely possible she was having some issues with it and maybe asked him to have a look, or something like that. I don't think police planted it nor have the capability to plant sweat/skin cells but I'm happy to be proven wrong. I am her age and a female, I'm clueless about cars, and would probably ask him to have a look at it because of his job and see if it was something super simple or it had to be fixed. Just my thoughts, of course. If I got any details wrong please tell me. :)

Honestly I agree that DNA evidence is very good evidence, if it is actually there "naturally". Once you get into the issue of contamination (either in the lab or from LE not being very careful) and planting, it gets a bit fuzzy as DNA is arguably the most clear cut evidence out there and highly regarded. Obviously if someone was raped and they collected semen, pubic hairs, etc then that can only really point to the perpetrator(s) because really, nobody can plant the evidence without people noticing. But in cases with hair and blood, it can be planted. I have also read about some DNA collection methods (Low Copy Number) that people say are unreliable but really I don't know much about DNA except the forms it comes in :lol:
 
I have found this and would like it to be cleared up if possible as I'm really clueless when it comes to science :innocent:

I found this, the State's Memorandum regarding motions filed by the defense about prior conviction and inmate statements. The link is here.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...o-Re-Motions-in-Limine-and-Correspondence.pdf

Anyway, it says this in one part.

Importantly, there is no evidence suggesting that Manitowoc County retained (or ever
had in its possession) any of Steven Avery's blood; it is only blood from Steven Avery
that could have been "planted" in this case, as that bodily fluid was the most prevalent
source of DNA extracted in this case. Any DNA sample previously provided by
Avery by use of "buccal swabs" is factually inconsequential. Without proof that a law
enforcement agency ever had Avery's blood, the "planting" defense necessarily fails;
without the means to plant evidence. the Manitowoc County Sheriff's Department,
even assuming they harbored ill will toward Steven Avery, failed to possess the
instrumentality necessary to "set up" Mr. Avery in this homicide investigation.


Are they claiming they don't have SA's blood? We know it's a lie now but I found it quite interesting. So it was up to the defense to find it and what if they didn't? Would they still claim they had no blood?

interesting considering in the email from Kratz to Culhane, dated Feb 7, 2006, they seem to be aware of some evidence from his 1985 case. I still want to know if there was more blood or other blood. Apparently he had blood drawn in 1985 too.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c.../Trial-Exhibit-343-Kratz-Email-to-Culhane.pdf
kratz to culhane email.PNG
 
Blood in quarry is ITEM CX, it is a mans DNA and does not match any of the Averys.

This doesn't surprise me at all. It's a quarry, men work in the quarry, men get hurt doing their jobs and bleed in the quarry. Have you ever moved a large rock and hurt your hand enough to make it bleed? It happens, it's common.
 
This doesn't surprise me at all. It's a quarry, men work in the quarry, men get hurt doing their jobs and bleed in the quarry. Have you ever moved a large rock and hurt your hand enough to make it bleed? It happens, it's common.

Kinda like people working in a salvage yard ripping vehicles apart would have cuts IMO

I think the question regarding CX is also about where was it? is there a picture of it? was it near the bones? what made them swab it or collect that sample in the first place? They were compelled enough to take a sample yet not compelled enough to take a picture as far as we know. (and I can't see that any were entered into evidence and we just haven't seen them yet)
 
interesting considering in the email from Kratz to Culhane, dated Feb 7, 2006, they seem to be aware of some evidence from his 1985 case. I still want to know if there was more blood or other blood. Apparently he had blood drawn in 1985 too.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c.../Trial-Exhibit-343-Kratz-Email-to-Culhane.pdf
View attachment 89373

Good Catch Missy. I read this and did not put 2 and 2 together. That is interesting since MW was the one who was with the Defense Lawyers in Dec 2006 when it was supposedly First discovered. So seems MW may have even investigated it prior and said nothing. Shakes head. I am not sure where, will have to double check but there is a line of people who may have been aware of that blood vial. Was Lt JL who signed out the hairs and fingernail clippings. I thought I read that when they were sent back they were checked in by DR. One of the three Men doing the searches on Avery's place.

Also the court order in 2002 never asked for that blood. So I am very confused why the DA or Asst. DA opened the box at all, then did not seal it properly. Seems that man should be investigated and reprimanded for not following the Chain of Evidence protocols. It is him who left that blood sealed with a simple piece of scotched tape, leaving it available for easy tampering. Maybe they planned on framing him with his own blood since the day he got out of prison? Was just waiting, and needing the right time and opportunity?

The link For DR receiving evidence back. http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...bit-344-Evidence-Release-Return-Form-2003.pdf

JMO
 
So I think I have finally pin pointed at least 2 of the blood drops that were part of the 6. They are not easy to see but there was one on the passenger seat and driver seat. Seems like it was dripping as they reached across the passengers side seat and then placed blood near the ignition. Like how did they get his CRUSTY blood to fall on the floor as it notes in Item A7. Also if you look closely the two swipes by the ignition is not the only drop there look a little higher and you will see another drop. Also the back passengers door frame, whats with that why would there be blood back there at all? There is also another drop on the carpet by that back passengers door.
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Does anyone have any ideal what this is? Thanks for putting the picture out there Mystic! When you look at them and then look back you start to notice different things.

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