do you think maddie is alive or dead

[ScarlettScarpetta]

He has been right in 200 other case's! He didn't happen too be wrong on this one.

How many has he been wrong in?

 

[jordynsmommy529]

Is there anything that backs these claims up other than his handlers word?

ETA- Cadaver dog 'evidence' is not allowed in to UK courts because it is not deemed reliable.

The handler's word seemed efficient enough for you too link what he said. So why is it not good enough now?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Who's to say he didn't live nearby/know someone that lived nearby and go hide out for a bit, or planned to walk a certain route but couldn't do so because people were about so took a longer route. Jane Tanner and Martin Smith's description of the man was VERY similar.[/QUOTE


So he walked around with a kidnapped child in the middle of the cold night who had on no shoes and thin pj's without her waking up or being seen by anybody other then them smith's? I'am sorry I just don't think it's possible if he was taking her in and out of house's she would have woken, & if the "abduction" was planned i'am pretty sure he would have had a vehicle too get outta dodge asap..

They are in portugal not the arctic. It is not like it was frigid.
Apparently seen by 3 people. That is just confirmation.

You could carry my kids anywhere when they are sleeping.. They won't wake up.. Most kids are like that.

Maybe he did not own a car and lived locally.. Who knows.

 

[jordynsmommy529]

Is there anything that backs these claims up other than his handlers word?

ETA- Cadaver dog 'evidence' is not allowed in to UK courts because it is not deemed reliable.

BBM


Well considering this didn't happen in the UK it doesn't really matter what their courts allow!

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

BBM


Well considering this didn't happen in the UK it doesn't really matter what their courts allow!

Sure it does. It means that it is not reliable enough to be used in court. That means they have enough unreliable hits, reports that make it less likely the dogs are correct.

That is called Data.

 

[SapphireSteel]

The dogs were brought in by the British Police.

It was the British who first identified "evidence" implicating the McCanns.

We still don't know what this evidence is.

With this case, we ARE looking at "conspiracy theories"...at some level anyway, because nothing makes sense.

There is cover up and misinformation no matter where you look - apart from Amaral that is.

Why did the British police abruptly end their own investigations?

:waitasec:

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

The dogs were brought in by the British Police.

It was the British who first identified "evidence" implicating the McCanns.

We still don't know what this evidence is.

With this case, we ARE looking at "conspiracy theories"...at some level anyway, because nothing makes sense.

There is cover up and misinformation no matter where you look - apart from Amaral that is.

Why did the British police abruptly end their own investigations?

:waitasec:

I don't believe in conspiracy theories. TO me, Conspiracy theories are dripping in personal bias and emotion. Not facts. There is nothing here that says there was any conspiracy.

Apparently they have not. They just handed it off to Scotland yard.

People are sill actively looking for Maddie.

 

[Linda7NJ]

How many has he been wrong in?

Zero.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I don't believe in conspiracy theories. TO me, Conspiracy theories are dripping in personal bias and emotion. Not facts. There is nothing here that says there was any conspiracy.

Apparently they have not. They just handed it off to Scotland yard.

People are sill actively looking for Maddie.

Dogs aren't bias

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Zero.

Based on what? Because all that means is that he has hits on things.. Not that he knows what exactly he is hitting on. He is trained to smell things and react. That does not mean he can analyze anything and tell us what it is..


Too many things in this case are too muddled to take the hits and believe that they mean anything.

 

[Jmoose]

It appears that Martin Grime used pig remains as a training aid.



That could be a problem for the dog alerts in this case.

Training Cadaver Dogs on Pig Remains May Lead to Evidentiary Challenges



http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

http://doglawreporter.blogspot.com/2012/04/training-cadaver-dogs-on-pig-remains.html

The dogs were originally trained with pig-he took them to Quantico so he could train them to detect human remains-that is what they did. Any stats on how often these dogs confused humans and pigs?

How familiar are you with the training at that facility? My friend spent 6 months there training-they took the dogs there for a reason.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Dogs aren't bias

Sure they are.. I was reading about a how the dogs are reward trained and so that can skew a dog depending on his desire for a treat.

They are dogs.. Not computers.. anything living is fallible..


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - the cadaver dog

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

The dogs were originally trained with pig-he took them to Quantico so he could train them to detect human remains-that is what they did. Any stats on how often these dogs confused humans and pigs?

How familiar are you with the training at that facility? My friend spent 6 months there training-they took the dogs there for a reason.

"You can have HR odor but no external blood present. If that is the case then only Eddie will alert. Keela will not. If you have external blood then both dogs should alert. So what does the fob alert mean? It only means that 2 dogs (one trained for HRD and fluid and one dog trained for blood only) alerted on the car fob. So take that grain of rice and add it to the rest of the meal. Add it in with the other circumstantial evidence."

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - the cadaver dog

 

[Deleted member 39678]

The dogs were originally trained with pig-he took them to Quantico so he could train them to detect human remains-that is what they did. Any stats on how often these dogs confused humans and pigs?

How familiar are you with the training at that facility? My friend spent 6 months there training-they took the dogs there for a reason.

According to Grime's all of the dogs alerted to the pig remains when he introduced it to them during training. That's not good in my opinion.

 

[Jmoose]

According to Grime's all of the dogs alerted to the pig remains when he introduced it to them during training. That's not good in my opinion.

Before or after they were trained at Quantico with human remains?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Sure they are.. I was reading about a how the dogs are reward trained and so that can skew a dog depending on his desire for a treat.

They are dogs.. Not computers.. anything living is fallible..


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - the cadaver dog

That why "cueing" is a problem. The dogs sometimes take a gesture as a command and not communication. MOO.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Before or after they were trained at Quantico with human remains?

Either way it's not right. HRD dogs shouldn't alert to pig remains. They should only alert to human remains.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I am very disturbed that Martin Grime is now also being accused of fabricating evidence.

Grime was brought in by the British Police, because he is a trusted provider.

That means that his word is good enough for LE and the courts.

Why on earth would Grime "cue" his dogs? Those dogs and their accuracy is his livelihood...?

So now we are saying a very well known, respected, unrelated and impartial expert is also part of the plot against the poor parents?

The dogs were British, not Portugese. What "power" did the Portugese have over Grime, when it was British LE who were paying his wages?

Why would Grime, under British retainer, travel all the way to a foreign country to "cue" his dogs? What benefit is there for him? Ruining his own reputation and business is not a benefit....!

 

[Gem2626]

I am very disturbed that Martin Grime is now also being accused of fabricating evidence.

Grime was brought in by the British Police, because he is a trusted provider.

That means that his word is good enough for LE and the courts.

Why on earth would Grime "cue" his dogs? Those dogs and their accuracy is his livelihood...?

So now we are saying a very well known, respected, unrelated and impartial expert is also part of the plot against the poor parents?

The dogs were British, not Portugese. What "power" did the Portugese have over Grime, when it was British LE who were paying his wages?

It has nothing to do with the courts seeing as the dogs are not seen as reliable enough for this 'evidence' to make it into court.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I am very disturbed that Martin Grime is now also being accused of fabricating evidence.

Grime was brought in by the British Police, because he is a trusted provider.

That means that his word is good enough for LE and the courts.

Why on earth would Grime "cue" his dogs? Those dogs and their accuracy is his livelihood...?

So now we are saying a very well known, respected, unrelated and impartial expert is also part of the plot against the poor parents?

The dogs were British, not Portugese. What "power" did the Portugese have over Grime, when it was British LE who were paying his wages?

Why would Grime, under British retainer, travel all the way to a foreign country to "cue" his dogs? What benefit is there for him? Ruining his own reputation and business is not a benefit....!

No one is accusing anyone of anything. Just pointing out the dogs are not infallible and that there are other reasons they could have alerted.

I don't think anyone had power over any one. I don't think power is a bad thing and that people that have it are evil.
I just the fact remains that dogs are not perfect.