Doogie Howser is Gay!

[j2mirish]

Originally Posted by Maral

but I can understand if she is uncomfortable with that since it is your belief that being gay is a sin and one who is will go to hell.

Gee, did I say that? I dont think so.

um- yea you did- post # 96 on this thread-

My family is very christian as well. I was raised that being gay or lesbian is a sin and you will go to hell for it.

 

[michelle]

Originally Posted by Maral



um- yea you did- post # 96 on this thread-

Read my post 99#. I also did not say that she would go to hell on post 96# I said that is what I was taught. Doesnt mean I believe everything I was told.

 

[j2mirish]

Read my post 99#. I also did not say that she would go to hell on post 96# I said that is what I was taught. Doesnt mean I believe everything I was told.

I stand corrected- you did explain further in the post you didnt agree with what you were taught- :blowkiss: my bad :doh:

 

[LillyRush]

He wasnt living "In the Closet" or hiding his sexuality from those in his life it mattered to. I dont understand the agenda lately to force anyone to publically state their sexuality to the International Press. It shouldnt even be an issue.

I think you're right. I read about this online somewhere a couple of years ago. There is some list out there that mentions or speculates about this kind of thing and someone I knew who was interested in celebrity news shared the link. I have a feeling it was just that he went from being a kid star to not really being seen again regularly until his late 20s and just happened to have already 'come out' during those in between years/non-public years. Also, to be perfectly honest, you can kind of tell that he is...not that it really matters of course.

 

[Maral]

Gee, did I say that? I dont think so.

Sorry, michelle. I didn't write that very well. What I was trying to say was since she is your cousin, she probably knows that you were raised to believe that way, so she could be uncomfortable bringing it up with you. If it is important to you to talk to her about it, I think you should be the one to bring it up to her.

 

[2sisters]

How is it you think you have been attacked for your opinion? I missed it.

On the other hand, if a post says gays are "not like the rest of us" does that sound intolerant to you?

How should one address intolerance?
http://www.tolerance.org/speakup/index.html

I wasn't talking about me, I meant other posters.

 

[IrishMist]

Well explain this to me. I am not being smart either. How come she has been with men, had a serious one and then started dating woman? I guess she is Bi-Sexual then??:waitasec:

Maybe.

Or confused. Unsure. Afraid to face her true feelings.

Or all of the above.

 

[michelle]

Sorry, michelle. I didn't write that very well. What I was trying to say was since she is your cousin, she probably knows that you were raised to believe that way, so she could be uncomfortable bringing it up with you. If it is important to you to talk to her about it, I think you should be the one to bring it up to her.

Thats ok. It is important to me because no matter what I was taught, I believe I am not the judge of her on that. I dont want her to feel like she cannot talk to me about it or be afraid.

 

[IrishMist]

Thats ok. It is important to me because no matter what I was taught, I believe I am not the judge of her on that. I dont want her to feel like she cannot talk to me about it or be afraid.

Just throwing in my two cents, here, Michelle. If I were in her position, I probably wouldn't talk to you about it.

One, I might not have a need to discuss it. (with you or anyone else)

Two... my line of thinking would be this: you believe unrepented sins keep you out of heaven. You believe homosexuality is a sin. So unless I repent for who I am, according to your line of thinking, no heaven for me. I would feel judged.

And Three. The whole attitude of love the sinner/hate the sin, in my opinion, is condenscending.

All of this is just saying how I might feel. I don't know you or your cousin, and I could be wrong. Just spitballing, as SuperDave would say.

 

[windovervocalcords]

Thats ok. It is important to me because no matter what I was taught, I believe I am not the judge of her on that. I dont want her to feel like she cannot talk to me about it or be afraid.

This issue is a big deal in my family. We have more than one gay family member and we have not handled it well. It has been painful and divisive. May it be a positive experience for all of you.

This may put my "intolerance of intolerance" in some perspective.

Here is a resource from Parents and Friends of Gays and Lesbians that may help.
http://www.pflag.org/Dos_and_Don_ts_For_Family_and_Friends.do_dont.0.html

 

[2sisters]

This issue is a big deal in my family. We have more than one gay family member and we have not handled it well. It has been painful and divisive. May it be a positive experience for all of you.

This may put my "intolerance of intolerance" in some perspective.

Here is a resource from Parents and Friends of Gays and Lesbians that may help.
http://www.pflag.org/Dos_and_Don_ts_For_Family_and_Friends.do_dont.0.html

That's really too bad. I have 2 gay cousins who have been accepted completley ( and we are mostly a conservative bunch)It took their parents (they are brothers) some time but he is accepting now.

 

[IrishMist]

This issue is a big deal in my family. We have more than one gay family member and we have not handled it well. It has been painful and divisive. May it be a positive experience for all of you.

This may put my "intolerance of intolerance" in some perspective.

Here is a resource from Parents and Friends of Gays and Lesbians that may help.
http://www.pflag.org/Dos_and_Don_ts_For_Family_and_Friends.do_dont.0.html

I like that, and I think that's where I get my "intolerance of intolerance." I've said on here before that my father was (and probably still is) a life long member of the KKK. I was brought up like that.

I've seen first hand what bias, ignorance and fear does to people- along with the resulting actions and behaviors those people exhibit. Even though it was my upbringing, it back-fired with me, big time. Even as a child, what they said and did didn't make sense to me.

IMO, intolerance is based on ignorance and fear.

 

[windovervocalcords]

I like that, and I think that's where I get my "intolerance of intolerance." I've said on here before that my father was (and probably still is) a life long member of the KKK. I was brought up like that.

I've seen first hand what bias, ignorance and fear does to people- along with the resulting actions and behaviors those people exhibit. Even though it was my upbringing, it back-fired with me, big time. Even as a child, what they said and did didn't make sense to me.

IMO, intolerance is based on ignorance and fear.

It's impressive that you did not repeat the mistakes in your family. I agree with you about the connection of fear and intolerance.

I have seen the biggest tellers of inappropriate gay jokes, the most anti-gay speakers turn out to be closet queers. Its a way of distancing oneself from what is uncomfortable.

Pastor Ted and Mark Foley--cases in point.

 

[IrishMist]

It's impressive that you did not repeat the mistakes in your family. I agree with you about the connection of fear and intolerance.

I have seen the biggest tellers of inappropriate gay jokes, the most anti-gay speakers turn out to be closet queers. Its a way of distancing oneself from what is uncomfortable.

Pastor Ted and Mark Foley--cases in point.

Yep, it's usually my first clue.

 

[Nova]

Sorry, I don't have time to read this entire thread, but...

Neil Patrick Harris is a brilliant actor and was even as a child. Check out the film, "Clara's Heart," if you have any doubts. He was also brilliant in a small role in "JFK." If you've ever seen him on stage (national tour of "Rent," for example) you will agree.

There are a couple of kinds of "closets" for Hollywood actors. Although I haven't met NPH, I know a number of people who have: NPH has been "out" for many years and did nothing to hide the fact.

But being identified in the press as "out" is yet another level of revelation. NPH announced he is gay so that it wouldn't be published as some sort of "dirty secret." He has never treated his sexuality as a secret and there was no reason to let it be treated as such now.

The idea that celebrities are coming out because it is "hip" is simply ignorant. There are still problems for openly gay actors. Fortunately, NPH is a great character actor and may not care that he will never be cast as an action hero.

 

[nanandjim]

Sorry, I don't have time to read this entire thread, but...
NPH has been "out" for many years and did nothing to hide the fact...
But being identified in the press as "out" is yet another level of revelation...

Hey, Nova. I did read the thread, but my memory is fuzzy. I think that it was said what you stated; that is, that NPH was hiding nothing and has been living openly as a gay for years.

 

[Nova]

Hey, Nova. I did read the thread, but my memory is fuzzy. I think that it was said what you stated; that is, that NPH was hiding nothing and have been living openly as a gay for years.

Good. There's a big difference between making sure you're seen with numerous starlets to give the impression you are heterosexual and someone like NPH, who simply hasn't given a press release on the subject before now.

Of course, it SHOULD be nobody's business, but that isn't the way the Hollywood industry works.

 

[michelle]

Just throwing in my two cents, here, Michelle. If I were in her position, I probably wouldn't talk to you about it.

One, I might not have a need to discuss it. (with you or anyone else)

Two... my line of thinking would be this: you believe unrepented sins keep you out of heaven. You believe homosexuality is a sin. So unless I repent for who I am, according to your line of thinking, no heaven for me. I would feel judged.

And Three. The whole attitude of love the sinner/hate the sin, in my opinion, is condenscending.

All of this is just saying how I might feel. I don't know you or your cousin, and I could be wrong. Just spitballing, as SuperDave would say. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

I have specifically said that I dont believe that statement.

 

[narlacat]

I like that, and I think that's where I get my "intolerance of intolerance." I've said on here before that my father was (and probably still is) a life long member of the KKK. I was brought up like that.

I've seen first hand what bias, ignorance and fear does to people- along with the resulting actions and behaviors those people exhibit. Even though it was my upbringing, it back-fired with me, big time. Even as a child, what they said and did didn't make sense to me.

IMO, intolerance is based on ignorance and fear.

I didn't know that Irish, geez how awful for you.
I gather you don't speak to him now?

 

[Details]

I have specifically said that I dont believe that statement.

Just spinning off here - but I wonder if your cousin knows that? I can see a bunch of reasons for keeping quiet, not starting a discussion with someone about being gay:

- You don't think it would matter to them, and it's private business - heterosexuals don't talk about their preferred sexual positions, after all.
- You don't know if they will be judgemental, so better not to start it.
- Your relationship with this person is good, you've sent them your MySpace page, so they know you are gay, no reason to rub it in their faces if they are sensitive about it, and nothing to discuss if they are not.

I'm a subtle person sometimes, to me, letting you know about my MySpace page, which says I'm a lesbian (were I a lesbian) - to me, that'd be all I'd do to let you know I was gay. Other than that, I'd figure it's a mostly private matter, and really not relevant in our relationship with each other.

Just saying, your cousin may not not trust you - she may just not think it matters to you or others to get the formal statement, "I'm gay". She may trust you to be fine with it, without needing the discussion.