Dr. Lee's Book

[beesy]

Can you give a source for this Sissi? A credible source that specifically says the DNA in the underwear was from a male caucasian?

It's mentioned in this article:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/12/16/48hours/main661569.shtml

Before I decide if I believe it or not, I want to read the report myself, not a 5th hand translation.

 

[ladymemac]

SuperDave,
Westerfield was most definitely in the Van Damme house. Danielle was abducted from her bedroom in the middle of the night. He got in through a sliding glass door that was unfortunately left open because friends of the parents came over for a late night snack and drink.

Ladymemac

 

[sissi]

"JonBenet: Anatomy of a Cold Case"

Encores Friday, July 7 at 11pm E/P

The crime that has captivated a nation for nearly a decade is once again in the headlines now that Patsy Ramsey, mother of the doomed child beauty queen JonBenet, has passed away. Court TV takes a closer look at the case in this hour-long special that includes an exclusive interview with a Grand Juror on the case, as well as other key players. We delve into the investigation in an effort to understand why the death of JonBenet, who was found murdered ten years ago this December (2006), has remained unsolved. An in-depth examination of the twists and turns of one of America's most baffling mysteries, this special takes a closer look at the evidence, the mistakes that were made and the media circus that has surrounded the case since JonBenet’s tiny body was discovered in the basement of her home in Colorado. TV-14 V

 

[beesy]

Court TV ran a progam Jayelles, the other night, all of the players had something to say,Lee, Spitz, Schiller, and clips of LE and others. A grand juror spoke out, and said it was not the testimony of Smit that affected the grand jury it was the scientific testimony of Meyer. All forensic people said, "it was , no doubt, the dna of a male caucasian. The "sneeze" or "cough" was not intended to lead anyone in the direction of an asian factory worker, it was to describe the care in which the perp took to leave "nothing" behind, however he may have "sneezed" "coughed" or "drooled", leaving small traces in her underwear comingled with her blood.

No offense to Court TV, god knows I love it, but even they get things wrong or leave things out. The docu may say 'there was an unidentified print on a door", everyone thinks....ooooh, she(Darlie) is innocent! No, what the report said was that it CAN'T be identified because it is too smeared. So you might see a show thinking it's from A&E or Court TV so it's true and only hear what they want the audience to hear. I have no idea how long the interviews they show last, but it's longer than the 1 min. blips you see in the final edit.
Anyway, I'm saying that if we are getting this info from a docu or a news article, we probably aren't hearing everything in the report. Suppose the next line was something like "all they could do was say caucasian male because there wasn't enough DNA to test for much more" See? They spin it for ratings or because the people doing the editing believe in the Ramseys. We can't jump to conclusions on a statement that originates from god knows where. And as another poster said, a few drops probably don't mean much. There has got to be more than that. I need to refresh my memory, but were there any unidentifiable fingerprints anywhere important, i.e. her bedroom/bathroom, the stairs, the basement, on JB, the dish of pineapple, the pen, paintbrush or ransom note? "Every contact leaves a trace" Locard's Theory. And if this little bit of DNA is the only thing they have... well, I need more than that

 

[Britt]

There's a good discussion on the DNA over at Forums for Justice. See in particular Tricia's post, #31, re the problems with determining race from DNA:

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6994&page=3

 

[Jayelles]

I too will only believe that the panty-DNA was from a "male caucasian" if I hear it from a credible (and neutral) source. There has been way too much rumour-mongering in this case in an effort to sway public opinion one way or t'other.

Also, why would Tom Bennett break his silence to state that the DNA might not be from the killer and that it was microscopic - consistent with a cough or a sneeze - if he knows it was caucasian and that the factory workers were Asian?

I don't think he would have made that statement at all if he knew the DNA wasn't Asian.

Somehow, I have a little more faith in Tom Bennett than other people do. I admire his silence and refusal to speak to Internet Whackos!

 

[BBB167893]

I too will only believe that the panty-DNA was from a "male caucasian" if I hear it from a credible (and neutral) source. There has been way too much rumour-mongering in this case in an effort to sway public opinion one way or t'other.

Also, why would Tom Bennett break his silence to state that the DNA might not be from the killer and that it was microscopic - consistent with a cough or a sneeze - if he knows it was caucasian and that the factory workers were Asian?

I don't think he would have made that statement at all if he knew the DNA wasn't Asian.

Somehow, I have a little more faith in Tom Bennett than other people do. I admire his silence and refusal to speak to Internet Whackos!

So far, all we've had is second-and third-hand accounts and posturing from that little peacock Woody.

 

[sandraladeda]

It's mentioned in this article:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/12/16/48hours/main661569.shtml

Before I decide if I believe it or not, I want to read the report myself, not a 5th hand translation.

Am I blind?

I read this article through twice; could not find where it says "caucasian" male, just "male".

 

[BBB167893]

If you are blind, I share your condition.

 

[Jayelles]

This is from Judge Carne's ruling:-

Carnes also noted that an autopsy report revealed injury to JonBenet’s genitalia suggesting she was sexually assaulted shortly before her death. Unknown male DNA was found under JonBenet’s fingernails and in her underwear. “Finally, a Caucasian ‘pubic or auxiliary’ hair was found on the blanket covering JonBenet’s body,” the judge wrote. “The hair does not match that of any Ramsey and has not been sourced.”

This confirms my understanding of the evidence. The panty-DNA is known to be male ... and the hair is caucasian.

Now - someone who strongly believes that the hair and panty-DNA are rom the same person might put two and two together and conclude that the perp is therefore a white male. However, I don not think we know that for a fact. The hair and panty-DNA might not be from the same person.

Unless I hear from a reliable and unbiased source that the panty-DNA is now known to be caucasian, then I shall continue to work on the assumption that they may not be related.

(unamed RST sources are not considered to be reliable or credible.)

 

[Jayelles]

As I thought - just some vague "inside information". jameson won't swear to a lab report. And she isn't going to look for that information. Just for the record - last time jameson gave me the response that she didn't have time to look for a piece of information, it was when I asked her the name of the coroner who performed Gerald Bogg's autopsy and failed to recognise stungun injuries. She said she didn't recall the name and wouldn't go hunting through her files for it.

The name of the coroner as I knew (and she knew) was Dr Doberson!

 

[BBB167893]

"The hair and panty-DNA might not be from the same person."

The hair was matched to Patsy back in 2002.

 

[Jayelles]

"The hair and panty-DNA might not be from the same person."

The hair was matched to Patsy back in 2002.

Not quite. MtDNA cannot be matched to a single person. All they would be able to tell is that it came from Patsy, one of her children, one of her siblings, her mother, one of her mother's siblings.....

mtDNA is inherited through the maternal line.

http://www.hsc.unt.edu/departments/pathology_anatomy/
dna/paternitytypes.htm

Remember in the vanDam case the hairs which were found in the trailer were said to have coem from one of Danielle, her two brothers or Brenda vanDam. They couldn't narrow it down further than that.

 

[Earthbound Misfit I]

Yea and he must not have even been in his own RV because they didn't find a single fingerprint of his in there..gee whiz

Westerfield was never even in the house, sissi.

 

[Jayelles]

Elsewhere, it is being claimed that the source of the DNA being from a white male is a CBI lab person on Schiller's documentary.

No transcript - just someone who saw the documentary's say-so.

Let us remember what the Denver police lab said about the DNA in Tracey III:-

I think it would be wrong for them to focus just solely on the DNA because the DNA (as important an aspect as it is), it is not the sum total of the investigation. You may never get a hit. Because the suspect may never have committed a crime that qualified him to be in the database or he’s just not been caught yet.

Did anyone tape the documentary or know where there is a transcript online? I'd like this to be clarified.

I'd like a credible, unbiased person to confirm that they know the panty DNA is from a caucasian male.

 

[sissi]

Jayelles don't jump to the conclusion that this isn't a fact, I heard it, I just don't put names "out there" unless I'm certain. I was asking for "backup" ,however,I intend to note the names Friday when the show encores.

 

[trixie]

Elsewhere, it is being claimed that the source of the DNA being from a white male is a CBI lab person on Schiller's documentary.

No transcript - just someone who saw the documentary's say-so.

Let us remember what the Denver police lab said about the DNA in Tracey III:-


Did anyone tape the documentary or know where there is a transcript online? I'd like this to be clarified.

I'd like a credible, unbiased person to confirm that they know the panty DNA is from a caucasian male.

Hi Jayelles. I did notice everytime the DNA was mentioned it was called "male caucasian DNA' in the documentery. I noticed it because it was new news and I was really looking for something new in this case. It WAS said, several times.

 

[Jayelles]

Jayelles don't jump to the conclusion that this isn't a fact, I heard it, I just don't put names "out there" unless I'm certain. I was asking for "backup" ,however,I intend to note the names Friday when the show encores.

Sissi, please understand that rather than "jumping to the conclusion that this isn't a fact", I am "not jumping to the conclusion that it is a fact".

There is a difference. I am very interested to know how they arrived at their conclusion that the panty-DNA was from a white male based upon what I have found out about DNA.

ETA - This could be DNA-x which was more recent evidence, tested with more up to date methods.

 

[UKGuy]

Sissi, please understand that rather than "jumping to the conclusion that this isn't a fact", I am "not jumping to the conclusion that it is a fact".

There is a difference. I am very interested to know how they arrived at their conclusion that the panty-DNA was from a white male based upon what I have found out about DNA.

ETA - This could be DNA-x which was more recent evidence, tested with more up to date methods.

Well these documentary types can arrive at any conclusion they want, its their opinion after all.

But if it was true that the underwear-dna was caucasian-male I guess this would rule out NI.


.

 

[Jayelles]

Well these documentary types can arrive at any conclusion they want, its their opinion after all.

But if it was true that the underwear-dna was caucasian-male I guess this would rule out NI.


.

In the UK, documentaries must be factual and not misleading. We have an ombudsman called Ofcom who handles complaints about documentaries. The tv companies which make false claims in documentaries can get heavily fined. I had so wished that someone else would complain to OfCom about Tracey III. I would have done it myself, but my personal details would have been published in connection with the complaint and although I felt strongly about the British public being mislead by Tracey & co, I don't feel strongly enough to give out my personal details enabling certain people to use it to insinuate sexual impropriety on a massive scale (as seems to be the usual treatment dished out).