Dr. Lee's Book

[BlueCrab]

BlueCrab- that is definitely a more believable theory IMO. I still do not see the Ramsey's as having covered up though. BUT this theory certainly makes more sense than some of the others I have read here. (A lot more sense!)

Twizzler,

The Ramseys could be lying and covering up the truth if Burke was also involved in the killing. Burke could have secretly let the APAC weirdo into the house.

Or Nathan Inouye could have accompanied Doug Stine to the Ramsey's house that night to babysit the children while the kids played with Burke's new Nintendo, thus allowing John and Patsy to get to bed early. This would help explain the Stine's fierce defense of John and Patsy.

JMO

 

[Nehemiah]

It's interesting to note that author Larry Schiller, after researching this book for one year, has stated that he included only about 10% of what he knows about this case. I'm sure Schiller knows more about Nathan Inouye and Doug Stine, but is unable to write about it.
JMO

And in Dr. Lee's book, he says that Schiller thought that John/Patsy would be indicted after the GJ hearings.

IMO

 

[BlueCrab]

And in Dr. Lee's book, he says that Schiller thought that John/Patsy would be indicted after the GJ hearings.

IMO

Nehemiah,

But indicted for what? Indicted for murder (John and Patsy did it), or indicted for obstruction of justice (Burke did it and the parents are covering it up)? Big difference.

JMO

 

[sissi]

Everyone thought so, many agreed it would be a miscarriage of justice but thought it was inevitable given the "solve this NOW" climate.
This is the reason Lou backed off, he didn't want to be a part of such a travesty. It didn't happen, it didn't happen because there was no case against the Ramseys and they couldn't manufacture one, the evidence just wasn't there! Sad that they wasted so much time , time and energies that could have been better spent finding the killer. IMO

 

[ManInTheBox]

Whoa Whoa Whoa Dr. Lee wrote a book. There's a man I have tremendous respect for. Is it just about this case....what is it called?

 

[beesy]

Guess I will have to buy Lee's book after all. After reading other posters' remarks about it, I'm intrigued.

BlueCrab, it could be that the "horseplay" Lee refers to is kid EA, but if other kids besides Burke and JonBenet were involved, wouldn't they have had tea with Burke, or a soft drink...or something? There was only one glass on the table and no pop cans or anything to indicate anyone but Burke and JonBenet were at the table. Why would Burke ignore his friends and sit with JonBenet at the table and drink tea while she snacked on pineapple?

The problem with that theory is that EA is performed on the person having the orgasm, not the other person. So not the molestation victim or rape victim. The choker is helping the chokee, not getting off himself by choking someone. Supposedly it enhances the orgasm for the person being choked. That means if JonBenet died during EA, she was a willing participant and wanted to achieve a higher orgasm. I don't think so. Pardon the vulgar language, but it is what it is.

 

[sissi]

The problem with that theory is that EA is performed on the person having the orgasm, not the other person. So not the molestation victim or rape victim. The choker is helping the chokee, not getting off himself by choking someone. Supposedly it enhances the orgasm for the person being choked. That means if JonBenet died during EA, she was a willing participant and wanted to achieve a higher orgasm. I don't think so. Pardon the vulgar language, but it is what it is.

The biggest problem with his theory is that he's changed it. His interviews seem quite different these days. There is no more talk of an Asian factory worker, the dna has been identified as male caucasian, there is no more talk of an accident, we are hearing terms like "tremendous strength" , not a woman, not a child, brutality not an accident! He isn't to be faulted, he was going on Steve nonsense, and that era has ended.

 

[beesy]

The biggest problem with his theory is that he's changed it. His interviews seem quite different these days. There is no more talk of an Asian factory worker, the dna has been identified as male caucasian, there is no more talk of an accident, we are hearing terms like "tremendous strength" , not a woman, not a child, brutality not an accident! He isn't to be faulted, he was going on Steve nonsense, and that era has ended.

Oh, ok, I'm sorry. Should have read the whole thread and noticed the date first!:blushing: Oh well, some posters didn't seem to understand EA, so I guess it wasn't a totally useless post?

 

[sissi]

Oh, ok, I'm sorry. Should have read the whole thread and noticed the date first!:blushing: Oh well, some posters didn't seem to understand EA, so I guess it wasn't a totally useless post?

OOPS, don't be sorry, I'm sure there are many on here who will contend that nothing has changed, meanwhile I'm waiting for the transcript

 

[Jayelles]

The biggest problem with his theory is that he's changed it. His interviews seem quite different these days. There is no more talk of an Asian factory worker, the dna has been identified as male caucasian, there is no more talk of an accident, we are hearing terms like "tremendous strength" , not a woman, not a child, brutality not an accident! He isn't to be faulted, he was going on Steve nonsense, and that era has ended.

Can you give a source for this Sissi? A credible source that specifically says the DNA in the underwear was from a male caucasian?

 

[sissi]

Court TV ran a progam Jayelles, the other night, all of the players had something to say,Lee, Spitz, Schiller, and clips of LE and others. A grand juror spoke out, and said it was not the testimony of Smit that affected the grand jury it was the scientific testimony of Meyer. All forensic people said, "it was , no doubt, the dna of a male caucasian. The "sneeze" or "cough" was not intended to lead anyone in the direction of an asian factory worker, it was to describe the care in which the perp took to leave "nothing" behind, however he may have "sneezed" "coughed" or "drooled", leaving small traces in her underwear comingled with her blood.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

I saw that program too, and I was wondering who determined the DNA came from a caucasian male, as this is the first time that particular info has come out. Who are "all the forensic people"? I'm going to need a source before I will believe it's true - that show was in favor of the Rs all the way. They didn't even touch half the evidence pointing right at Miss West Virginia Patsy.

Too bad the grand jury never got to hear any testimony from either Steve Thomas or John and Patsy Ramsey. That in connection with Meyer's findings in the autopsy might have changed their opinion. I simply cannot understand how the GJ could get to a conclusion without hearing from the main detective or the parents who were home when the child was killed and found her body.

Amazing how this caucasian male intruder was able to avoid leaving ANY DNA evidence anywhere other than two tiny little spots on the undies. Makes me think the DNA in those spots aren't from any intruder at all.

 

[sissi]

Yep, Nuisance, it is similar to Westerfield, a man with a beard and balding, walks into a house, grabs a child from her bedroom, and drops not a fiber or a hair, not a smidge of dna!! Now, this perp, in the case of Jonbenet, was not so careful, they mentioned they have 4,000 fibers, many, most of which can't be matched to anyone or anything in the Ramsey house. They vacuumed closets and bedrooms, but nope..nothing! They missed their window, unlike the vandam case, where they interviewed and questioned neighbors and did forensic testing on vehicles other than the vandams.

 

[BBB167893]

I saw that program too, and I was wondering who determined the DNA came from a caucasian male, as this is the first time that particular info has come out. Who are "all the forensic people"? I'm going to need a source before I will believe it's true - that show was in favor of the Rs all the way. They didn't even touch half the evidence pointing right at Miss West Virginia Patsy.

Too bad the grand jury never got to hear any testimony from either Steve Thomas or John and Patsy Ramsey. That in connection with Meyer's findings in the autopsy might have changed their opinion. I simply cannot understand how the GJ could get to a conclusion without hearing from the main detective or the parents who were home when the child was killed and found her body.

Amazing how this caucasian male intruder was able to avoid leaving ANY DNA evidence anywhere other than two tiny little spots on the undies. Makes me think the DNA in those spots aren't from any intruder at all.

Exactly! That male caucasian DNA business is from the Ramsey lawyers, and Schiller's doc took them at their word. But it hasn't been confirmed. Tom Bennett even said so.

"There is no more talk of an Asian factory worker, the dna has been identified as male caucasian"

Sorry, no.

"we are hearing terms like "tremendous strength" , not a woman, not a child, brutality not an accident!"

That's another Ramsey assertion that remains unproven. Nothing's changed. Schiller just took a bunch of Ramsey press releases as gospel.

Westerfield was never even in the house, sissi.

Forgot to add that Henry was deep in the DA's office, not the police so much. PLUS:

But Lee is among the investigators who have reviewed evidence in the case and who downplay the DNA's significance.

"My personal opinion is that the DNA evidence in this case does not really shed any light," said Lee.

He cited the small size of the samples as a problem, and he contended that it is not definitively known that the DNA - which does not come from semen - is even that of the killer.

"We don't know how it got there, if it's from somebody's handling, or a secondary transfer - there's lots of possibilities," said Lee.

Looks pretty clear he hasn't changed his mind.

 

[Jayelles]

Court TV ran a progam Jayelles, the other night, all of the players had something to say,Lee, Spitz, Schiller, and clips of LE and others. A grand juror spoke out, and said it was not the testimony of Smit that affected the grand jury it was the scientific testimony of Meyer. All forensic people said, "it was , no doubt, the dna of a male caucasian. The "sneeze" or "cough" was not intended to lead anyone in the direction of an asian factory worker, it was to describe the care in which the perp took to leave "nothing" behind, however he may have "sneezed" "coughed" or "drooled", leaving small traces in her underwear comingled with her blood.

I'm sure you've posted about the DNA being male, caucasion before this programme though Sissi. I'd be looking for a more specific source than "a program that Court TV" ran.

Who was the person? Was it a forensic expert? - i.e. straight from the expert's mouth?

The reason I am asking is because I personally e-mailed a scientist working on the Human Genome programme and he told me that it was not yet possible to determine race from nuclear DNA. This was a couple of years ago.

Now I know that Smit said it, but it was the same programme where he spoke about packing peanuts and where he spoke about the blue mark being caused by the blue arc of electricity - which was of course absolute rubbish. I can well believe that the hair found on the blanket was determined to be caucasian because it IS possible to determine race from mitochondrial DNA extracted from hairs ... but the DNA from the underwear is not mtDNA, it is nuclear DNA.

The reason that they can determine race from mtDNA is because a massive study was done where they actually recorded information about the people whose DNA they were storing and they have enough of a database to establish genealogical connections between people. For example - they were able to tell people living in one area of England whether they were descended from Vikings or not.

So in the case of mtDNA, determining race doesn't come about as a result of some scientific procedure which tests positive for caucasian, but rather the result of a computer database search which returns information about the race of people who are probably related to the subject being tested.

There exists of course the possibility that the hair had a bulb and that the hair was determined to be caucasian and that the bulb tested positve for male (we cannot determine sex from mtDNA). That would tell us that the hair was from a male caucasian. Nuclear DNA can be extracted from a hair bulb. However - how do we know the hair was from her killer?

Hairs can be transferred innocently. Too many questions remain unanswered. Too much of the so-called evidence cannot be dated.

 

[Jayelles]

I saw that program too, and I was wondering who determined the DNA came from a caucasian male, as this is the first time that particular info has come out. Who are "all the forensic people"? I'm going to need a source before I will believe it's true - that show was in favor of the Rs all the way. They didn't even touch half the evidence pointing right at Miss West Virginia Patsy.

Too bad the grand jury never got to hear any testimony from either Steve Thomas or John and Patsy Ramsey. That in connection with Meyer's findings in the autopsy might have changed their opinion. I simply cannot understand how the GJ could get to a conclusion without hearing from the main detective or the parents who were home when the child was killed and found her body.

Amazing how this caucasian male intruder was able to avoid leaving ANY DNA evidence anywhere other than two tiny little spots on the undies. Makes me think the DNA in those spots aren't from any intruder at all.

Yes I too have heard of the "male caucasian" claim from Team Ramsey, but I fear they are connecting dots which may not be related and making assumptions which may be false.

 

[sissi]

Susannah Chase's murderer was race typed,
quote..
Recent tests by the company on semen collected after the brutal rape and murder -- unsolved, like so many murders -- of 23-year-old University of Colorado student Susannah Chase in Boulder in 1997 point to a Mestizo or American Indian as the killer. <

Six years after her murder!
Science has come a long way since the murder of Jonbenet and Susannah.

There isn't much one can do, to convince anyone of the truth, I pick my sources, others pick theirs, funny thing is, this time it was said by the sources that earlier had been credited with the misinformation. go figure!

editted <truth..IMO>

 

[BBB167893]

There isn't much one can do, to convince anyone of the truth

Don't I know it.

No one is trying to say that DNA hasn't progressed. It certainly has. But it doesn't change the fundamentals.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Well, yes, they can determine race with semen. However, the DNA on JonBenet's undies did not come from semen.

 

[BBB167893]

Well, yes, they can determine race with semen. However, the DNA on JonBenet's undies did not come from semen.

Or blood, skin, etc.