Dubbed "Vodka Mom" in scathing Nancy Grace segment, MN woman burns self to death

[Kimberlyd125]

I didn't mean to imply that a victim was in any way responsible for the death, but wanted to demonstrate that sometimes the prime suspect feels remorse for what he or she did, and is suffering tremendously. Being persecuted by a national audience may be too much to bear in addition to the guilt he or she already experienced. A mother that suffocated an infant because of drunkenness could never really forgive herself. Being persecuted doesn't add anything. NG going after this woman did nothing to move the case forward or advocate for the victim. It sounds like it was little more than a self-indulgent flogging of the prime suspect.

What did NG add to the case? If we assume that she did not contribute to the death, we can at least hope that something was accomplished by her broadcasts. The fact that: the family bed is not recommended because of potential infant suffocation, is not news; neither is it the point NG is making.

It was out and out neglect.
Child abuse!

NG covers cases of child abuse all the time.

IMO it brings the issue to the forefront for people who would never hear it otherwise.

She is standing up for the victim.

JMO

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Is she doing this show for the almighty dollar or is she perhaps doing this show to keep the public's attention on missing children and murdered wives and girlfriends?

I am going to give her the benefit of the doubt, given that she spent years as a prosecutor, and is presently the ONLY person doing a 5 night a week show focusing upon current crime victims. Many things that she does drive me nuts. I agree with the fact that she is not always accurate and is a day late and a dollar short quite often. But I don't see anyone else jumping up to take her place in trying to keep these crime victims in the public's eye.

It is weird that some think that SHE is what is wrong with our country today, as opposed to the people she was criticized for criticizing so harshly. That Ryan guy bludgeoned his beautiful young girlfriend, and then pulled her teeth out with pliers, one by one. And nancy Grace is the villain?

I agree. I just don't get it.

 

[otto]

NG knew the MOM got drunk and smothered her baby.
That's the just of it.
That's what was reported.
That's not prejudging. That's reporting the facts.
Who cares who this woman is?

She killed her baby because she got plastered.

NG, as a reporter and a lawyer, should know more than "the gist of it", because her "gist" is usually not only old news, but often incorrect. Based on that incorrect, old news, she wingnuts on a tangent intended to rile people up and create a strong reaction. That appears to be her agenda.

I think this woman's children care "who this woman is". I think they deserve to have their mother's memory respected, in spite of the mistake she made that resulted in the loss of their sibling. Now, they are also without a mother. Given NG's history with depressed mothers, I'm surprised she pushed it as far as she did.

What was her objective? We know it wasn't to educate the public about not sleeping in the family bed (South American tradition). Everyone knows the risks, SIDS and sleeping on the stomach. That wasn't her message. What is NG's message?

 

[otto]

Is she doing this show for the almighty dollar or is she perhaps doing this show to keep the public's attention on missing children and murdered wives and girlfriends?

I am going to give her the benefit of the doubt, given that she spent years as a prosecutor, and is presently the ONLY person doing a 5 night a week show focusing upon current crime victims. Many things that she does drive me nuts. I agree with the fact that she is not always accurate and is a day late and a dollar short quite often. But I don't see anyone else jumping up to take her place in trying to keep these crime victims in the public's eye.

It is weird that some think that SHE is what is wrong with our country today, as opposed to the people she was criticized for criticizing so harshly. That Ryan guy bludgeoned his beautiful young girlfriend, and then pulled her teeth out with pliers, one by one. And nancy Grace is the villain?

Let's make that a dance, about the twins and sensationalized crime reports program. A little less talking head sensationalism in broadcasting of crimes might help with the prosecution of people like Casey Anthony.

I don't watch her, and it sounds like I'm not missing much ... but I do object to women bullying women that accidentally suffocate an infant until they leave four children without a mother.

 

[katydid23]

NG, as a reporter and a lawyer, should know more than "the gist of it", because her "gist" is usually not only old news, but often incorrect. Based on that incorrect, old news, she wingnuts on a tangent intended to rile people up and create a strong reaction. That appears to be her agenda.

I think this woman's children care "who this woman is". I think they deserve to have their mother's memory respected, in spite of the mistake she made that resulted in the loss of their sibling. Now, they are also without a mother. Given NG's history with depressed mothers, I'm surprised she pushed it as far as she did.

What was her objective? We know it wasn't to educate the public about not sleeping in the family bed (South American tradition). Everyone knows the risks, SIDS and sleeping on the stomach. That wasn't her message. What is NG's message?

I think her message was pretty clear. She talked about how much a litre of vodka was. That is a lot of alcohol for one person, especially for someone watching a newborn. I think her message was 'please don't get passed out drunk and then lie down on the couch with your newborn.'

It is quite sad the older sibs are without their mother. But laying the blame on NG is silly, imo. There are many reasons they do not have their mom anymore. And imo, Nancy Grace is the least of them.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

NG, as a reporter and a lawyer, should know more than "the gist of it", because her "gist" is usually not only old news, but often incorrect. Based on that incorrect, old news, she wingnuts on a tangent intended to rile people up and create a strong reaction. That appears to be her agenda.

I think this woman's children care "who this woman is". I think they deserve to have their mother's memory respected, in spite of the mistake she made that resulted in the loss of their sibling. Now, they are also without a mother. Given NG's history with depressed mothers, I'm surprised she pushed it as far as she did.

What was her objective? We know it wasn't to educate the public about not sleeping in the family bed (South American tradition). Everyone knows the risks, SIDS and sleeping on the stomach. That wasn't her message. What is NG's message?

Again, NG's message is child abuse and neglect are WRONG.
Again, it's not about a family bed, it's about being plastered and sleeping on top of your baby. NEGLECT

"mistake she made" sounds so pleasant. This was not a simple mistake. She chose to put her baby at great risk when she chugged a fifth of vodka and slept with him.

I watched the show. I've read articles. I think NG was right about every fact of the case.

What did she have wrong? What untruth did she tell?

 

[otto]

That 'poor' woman had TWO Dui's in one month, and then drank a liter of vodka, while home caring for her newborn. Why shouldn't NG go after her for that totally abhorrent behavior? It wasn't like it was just a normal 'family bed' accidental smothering. I don't think she would criticize a woman who lost her child in that way, if it was a freak accident in bed after nursing. But this woman drank a huge bottle of vodka before sleeping on the couch with a tiny newborn. That is not an accident, that is negligent manslaughter, imo.

She wasn't born a drunk and we haven't heard that all her children are FAS, so was this something she regularly did, or did this happen after the child was born. Surely NG knows the answer to that question. If it happened regularly, why was the FAS child left in the mother's care and not with social services? If it didn't happen regularly, what happened in her life that she turned to that level of alcohol abuse in such a short time shortly after the birth of her infant?

NG must have answers to those obvious questions ... if she is a reporter and a lawyer. Was she trying to understand the situation, or was she broadcasting her opinion ... one that may have been very damaging to this mother, NG's "gist of it".

 

[katydid23]

Let's make that a dance, about the twins and sensationalized crime reports program. A little less talking head sensationalism in broadcasting of crimes might help with the prosecution of people like Casey Anthony.

I don't watch her, and it sounds like I'm not missing much ... but I do object to women bullying women that accidentally suffocate an infant until they leave four children without a mother.

I agree, there are problems with her show. But blaming her for these suicides is ridiculous, imo. There are huge issues they were all dealing with, and NG was the least of their worries. JMO

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Let's make that a dance, about the twins and sensationalized crime reports program. A little less talking head sensationalism in broadcasting of crimes might help with the prosecution of people like Casey Anthony.

I don't watch her, and it sounds like I'm not missing much ... but I do object to women bullying women that accidentally suffocate an infant until they leave four children without a mother.

You don't watch her?
Then how do you know so much about what she does and does not do on her show?

You have made plenty of statements about what she does on her show.

ACCIDENTALLY SUFFOCATE????

Ok, there in lies the problem we are having understanding each other.

You see this as an accident. A mistake.

I couldn't disagree more.

 

[otto]

It was out and out neglect.
Child abuse!

NG covers cases of child abuse all the time.

IMO it brings the issue to the forefront for people who would never hear it otherwise.

She is standing up for the victim.

JMO

The victim here was suffacoted because he was in bed with his mother. She rolled onto him and was not aware of the fact that he could not breath. He died. The family bed is discouraged for this very reason. That's well known, like not putting a baby to sleep on it's stomach because of SIDS.

What point is NG making with this victim? Another baby died in the family bed? The mother was or was not drunk, but it happens.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

She wasn't born a drunk and we haven't heard that all her children are FAS, so was this something she regularly did, or did this happen after the child was born. Surely NG knows the answer to that question. If it happened regularly, why was the FAS child left in the mother's care and not with social services? If it didn't happen regularly, what happened in her life that she turned to that level of alcohol abuse in such a short time shortly after the birth of her infant?

NG must have answers to those obvious questions ... if she is a reporter and a lawyer. Was she trying to understand the situation, or was she broadcasting her opinion ... one that may have been very damaging to this mother, NG's "gist of it".

I haven't seen that info in any of the articles I've read either. So reporters for various news organizations (like CBS) must not have the "gist of it either".

She reported the FACTS.
The same FACTS that I've seen in several articles.

So can we put that long list of reporters on the list of people besides the criminal to blame?

 

[otto]

I think her message was pretty clear. She talked about how much a litre of vodka was. That is a lot of alcohol for one person, especially for someone watching a newborn. I think her message was 'please don't get passed out drunk and then lie down on the couch with your newborn.'

It is quite sad the older sibs are without their mother. But laying the blame on NG is silly, imo. There are many reasons they do not have their mom anymore. And imo, Nancy Grace is the least of them.

The bigger message, that is already out there, is that the family bed is not a place for infants. Many parents adopt this SA cultural practice because it is supposed to support family bonding. It's a bad idea, drunk or sober, on a soft mattress or sofa. NG could promote the message about the dangers of the family bed, but persecuting this woman because she was drunk in the family bed ... what's the message there?

NG should have stayed out of it. She did nothing to advance the cause of victims, nothing to advance the investigation and contributed nothing to the case or public education. What she did appears to be interfering with the prime suspect in an accidental infant suffocation.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

The victim here was suffacoted because he was in bed with his mother. She rolled onto him and was not aware of the fact that he could not breath. He died. The family bed is discouraged for this very reason. That's well known, like not putting a baby to sleep on it's stomach because of SIDS.

What point is NG making with this victim? Another baby died in the family bed? The mother was or was not drunk, but it happens.

Otto, again... The point is this mother neglected her baby and put him at risk that caused his death at the ripe old age of 3 weeks.

She got beyond drunk and slept on top of her baby on a COUCH, not a bed. Big difference.

Had this been just an unfortunate accident or an innocent mistake, this "mom" would not have been facing 10 years in prison.

Her actions, and her actions alone killed that baby boy.

 

[otto]

I haven't seen that info in any of the articles I've read either. So reporters for various news organizations (like CBS) must not have the "gist of it either".

She reported the FACTS.
The same FACTS that I've seen in several articles.

So can we put that long list of reporters on the list of people besides the criminal to blame?

So the story is only about how much she drank that night and on two prior occassions, but nothing about whether her children all suffered from fetal alcohol syndrome? If she was such a drunk, all of her childre, and especially the youngest, should clearly have had signs of FAS and should have been apprehended by social services. If the children show no signs of FAS, then NG really dropped the ball in not finding out why this woman was suddenly, since the birth of her child, so seriously drunk.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

This wasn't even a bed!
This was a couch. Like what, 2 feet wide???
Anybody in their right (sober) mind would know you can't sleep with a baby on a 2' wide surface. With that baby between your body and the back of the couch.

Her judgement was skewed by her intoxication obviously.

Yep, that's a crime.
That makes her the criminal.

It's no different than if she had been drunk and spilled boiling water on the baby or if she had been drunk and drove with the baby.

Her actions, due to her intoxication, killed her baby.

JMO

 

[katydid23]

The victim here was suffacoted because he was in bed with his mother. She rolled onto him and was not aware of the fact that he could not breath. He died. The family bed is discouraged for this very reason. That's well known, like not putting a baby to sleep on it's stomach because of SIDS.

What point is NG making with this victim? Another baby died in the family bed? The mother was or was not drunk, but it happens.

This was NOT a family bed accident. I used to place our kids into our 'family bed' with us when they were little. But it was a HUGE bed, and I was not drunk on a litre of vodka and the kids were not 3 weeks old. It was a risk and I was aware of that and took as many positive steps as I could to keep them safe, because I thought the rewards made the potential risks worthwhile.

She fell asleep on a couch with a newborn, after she drank a full litre of straight vodka. That is not an 'accident.' The baby died because his caretaker was way too drunk to care for him.

 

[otto]

Otto, again... The point is this mother neglected her baby and put him at risk that caused his death at the ripe old age of 3 weeks.

She got beyond drunk and slept on top of her baby on a COUCH, not a bed. Big difference.

Had this been just an unfortunate accident or an innocent mistake, this "mom" would not have been facing 10 years in prison.

Her actions, and her actions alone killed that baby boy.

I get that. This mom got really drunk after the birrh of her son, but was or was not usually drunk. Therefore, she is bad and deserving of public ridicule and persecution. I'm unclear on whether she was always a drunk or something was really wrong after the birth of her son. That's something a lawyer. reporter and victim's advocate should want to know. If she was always drunk, I'm unclear on why the children were left in her care.

Those are two simple questions. Did the lawyer/reporter even begin to understand the case, or did the lawyer/reporter convict and condemn this woman without any consideration for the whole story?

 

[Kimberlyd125]

So the story is only about how much she drank that night and on two prior occassions, but nothing about whether her children all suffered from fetal alcohol syndrome? If she was such a drunk, all of her childre, and especially the youngest, should clearly have had signs of FAS and should have been apprehended by social services. If the children show no signs of FAS, then NG really dropped the ball in not finding out why this woman was suddenly, since the birth of her child, so seriously drunk.

This is getting nowhere.
I already addressed this.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I get that. This mom got really drunk after the birrh of her son, but was or was not usually drunk. Therefore, she is bad and deserving of public ridicule and persecution. I'm unclear on whether she was always a drunk or something was really wrong after the birth of her son. That's something a lawyer. reporter and victim's advocate should want to know. If she was always drunk, I'm unclear on why the children were left in her care.

Those are two simple questions. Did the lawyer/reporter even begin to understand the case, or did the lawyer/reporter convict and condemn this woman without any consideration for the whole story?

What difference does it make?
If she got drunk every day or if this was the very first time she ever touched alcohol?

She killed her kid THAT night.

She had been charged and was facing 10 years.

What she did was a criminal offense.

SHE did it.

 

[katydid23]

So the story is only about how much she drank that night and on two prior occassions, but nothing about whether her children all suffered from fetal alcohol syndrome? If she was such a drunk, all of her childre, and especially the youngest, should clearly have had signs of FAS and should have been apprehended by social services. If the children show no signs of FAS, then NG really dropped the ball in not finding out why this woman was suddenly, since the birth of her child, so seriously drunk.

What does any of that have to do with this situation. No matter how long she drank or didn't drink, no matter if her older kids are victims of FAS or not, this one newborn DIED. That is the issue that was at hand.

This woman had two DUI's in one month, prior to this tragedy. So obviously the signs were already there.