Ebola outbreak - general thread #2

[chipmunk]

We know how to treat ebola - that's why the people who came back here lived. We don't know how to cure ebola. But we don't know how to cure polio either. We treated it, but many people still suffered a lot of damage. Vaccines saved us, but do we vaccinate against polio anymore? I thought that was no longer done in the US. And vaccines only help beforehand, if you're expecting an outbreak.

TB I can't quite figure out - apparently it doesn't make most people that sick, but then ravages others. We can treat it, but I don't think we can do much for those hardest hit by it. From Wiki:



So there's already TB here, but people are healthier so it doesn't destroy them like it once did. But it seems much easier to spread than ebola, and if it becomes antibiotic-resistant, it seems like a pretty big threat.

HIV was largely contained due to excellent public health campaigns - it's not very easy to transmit, and people began being a lot more careful about using protection and not sharing needles, etc. In places where birth control and sexual health is taboo, it's a disaster. And while we can treat HIV, I don't think we can treat AIDs very much. Once it hits that point, which we've now made a lot rarer, you are going to die, and probably suffer a lot more than someone with ebola.

Re: the malaria discussion - it is usually spread by mosquitoes. So if we had mosquitoes that could effectively transmit it, I'd say the danger would be pretty high. That can be harder to control that human-to-human transmission - think of how the plague was spread by fleas from rats.

I guess I feel that this is something we do have control over. Not that it couldn't kill people, but in the US it is reasonably possible to stay away from ebola victims and to make sure sewage isn't getting into water supplies and all that. The incubation period aspect makes it difficult, but many diseases have that component. The biggest issue is the victims die quickly - it just poses a much lower risk of spread than many other diseases, where people travel around for years with symptoms.

We also have much better body disposal methods in terms of sanitation - that makes a huge difference.

And while I realize ebola has killed thousands in this outbreak, so have a bunch of other diseases. Look at the statistics. Millions die from AIDS each year, and I'm sure many more do from malaria and TB than from ebola. Ebola has small short outbreaks that tragically take thousands of lives that should not be minimized, but it's death rates are nothing like those of many other diseases (in terms of numbers, not fatality rates), most of which are also spread by contact with other humans.

-And time for that flu shot.

 

[DeDee]

http://www.google.com/patents/CA2741523A1

https://www.google.com/patents/US20...P_XGPOS7AaUvYDoDQ&sqi=2&pjf=1&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAQ

https://www.google.com/patents/EP23...OaXE8LW7Qa3gYHADg&sqi=2&pjf=1&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAw

https://www.google.com/?tbm=pts&gws_rd=ssl#tbm=pts&q=hemorrhagic+fever

At the 1st link, notice who developed the virus.
At the 2nd link, notice who owns the patent.
At the 3rd link, notice who owns the patent.
At the 4th link, notice the treatment for the hemorrhagic fever virus.

 

[SeekingJana]

I don't know what happened at this hospital or who made this whopper of a mistake, but as a healthcare worker (RN) I can say that when I see patients for evaluation, I have no idea ( and don't care to know) the details of their insurance coverage or lack there of. Admitting takes all that information, not me. My concern is their health. :flu:

I would like to support this post 100%!! Nurses working in patient care areas absolutely are NOT concerned with the details of insurance coverage or lack of same.
I never considered the financials, never skimped on supplies or was reckless with anything charged to the patient either.

 

[jjenny]

And while I realize ebola has killed thousands in this outbreak, so have a bunch of other diseases. Look at the statistics. Millions die from AIDS each year, and I'm sure many more do from malaria and TB than from ebola. Ebola has small short outbreaks that tragically take thousands of lives that should not be minimized, but it's death rates are nothing like those of many other diseases (in terms of numbers, not fatality rates), most of which are also spread by contact with other humans.

Ebola had small short outbreaks. In the past. Previous outbreaks luckily took place in rural areas and burned themselves out. The current outbreak is neither small nor short.
If it's not stopped, millions are going to die in a short period of time.

 

[chipmunk]

Some details on what US troops will be doing and who they are. None will be treating patients:
http://complex.foreignpolicy.com/po...ploys_more_troops_to_africa_to_fight_outbreak (free subscription needed)

 

[Gypsy Road]

What I can tell you about TB:
18 years ago I was coughed on by a patient with active TB. The nursing home he was admitted to wasn't aware that this patient arrived from the Phillipines with active TB. I myself didn't know until I took a tyne test- 4 prick on the wrist, and it turned positive- size of a quarter. For a whole year, I had to take a drug called INH daily, even when I traveled I had to take it with me. Periodically, I still have to have chest x-rays to prove to new employers that I don't have TB. I can no longer take the tyne test. This was 18 years ago!!!
P.S. Children, at least mine, receive the polio vaccine. It's making a recurrence.

My father-in-law got TB and no one knows where - there were no other reported cases in our county during that time. It took many weeks to diagnose him because nobody thought to test for it. When other tests came back negative and he kept getting sicker - they finally did a test. I don't think they found it by a tyne test, it seems I remember they had to grow a culture? The TB tumor was in his spine. But....same thing you had to do - take INH daily (I'm pretty sure that was the name). However, he was not allowed to administer it with out someone from the Health Department watching him take the medication. For a year a Health Department nurse would come to my in-laws house each day and give him the medication!

 

[CARIIS]

Dallas hospital corrects earlier statement claiming 'flaw' in its electronic health records system contributed to release of Ebola patient on 1st visit; records were available to the full care team during Thomas Duncan's first visit to the emergency department Sept. 25 -


http://www.myfoxdfw.com/story/26702...eam?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

 

[SallyLu]

Dallas hospital corrects earlier statement claiming 'flaw' in its electronic health records system contributed to release of Ebola patient on 1st visit; records were available to the full care team during Thomas Duncan's first visit to the emergency department Sept. 25 -


http://www.myfoxdfw.com/story/26702...eam?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

One hand doesn't know what the other hand is doing. Oh, silly me, I got that wrong. It's covering the other hand up!

 

[SallyLu]

This is not a witch hunt on my part, just curiosity on how this happened under our noses. How was this family moved and no-one saw it????? There were forty reporters outside a few days ago and I'm sure that number has increased.

 

[Tugela]

http://www.google.com/patents/CA2741523A1

https://www.google.com/patents/US20...P_XGPOS7AaUvYDoDQ&sqi=2&pjf=1&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAQ

https://www.google.com/patents/EP23...OaXE8LW7Qa3gYHADg&sqi=2&pjf=1&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAw

https://www.google.com/?tbm=pts&gws_rd=ssl#tbm=pts&q=hemorrhagic+fever

At the 1st link, notice who developed the virus.
At the 2nd link, notice who owns the patent.
At the 3rd link, notice who owns the patent.
At the 4th link, notice the treatment for the hemorrhagic fever virus.

Those patents relate to the viral DNA sequence. The people who own them did not "develop" the virus, they decoded it's DNA after it had been identified. That information can be used to develop vaccines and diagnostic test kits, and it is those things that the patents were intended to protect.

This is normal practice in the development of new drugs and tests for pathogens.

The sequence of events is something like this:

(A) A virus or bacteria is causing disease in humans.
(B) Scientists take the pathogen apart to see what it is made of and how it works. Part of that may involve decoding the viral DNA
(C) Once the scientists know what it looks like and how it works they try to develop treatments using that information. That might involve vaccines or drugs that interfere with critical parts of the pathogens lifecycle.
(D) In the course of that work, and afterwards, diagnostic kits are developed using that information to detect and monitor the pathogen in patients.

 

[Tugela]

Responding to Lawstudent's post ^^^^^. You are so correct about the information we have at our disposal. The problem is not everyone has this available whether it is due to finances, education, language difference, culture, or just the old "I don't care" attitude.

No two people think alike. Answering a question truthfully would have prevented this particular case. He would not have been allowed to fly. Had the family said the word "Ebola" at the first hospital trip, he would never have been sent home. We will never know the whys of these things.

It only takes one sick person to start an epidemic. From what we are seeing, the CDC is not the well functioning, on-top of infectious diseases that America has thought. For me, that is a very disturbing fact.
The way the two quarantined families have been treated/ignored is pathetic.

My opinions only!

In my opinion he knew that he probably was infected, and he flew to America before he showed symptoms, and lied about it along the way so no one would stop him, so that he would be treated in an American hospital rather than be left in a Liberian tent. I don't think he gave a rats a** about who else might be infected along the way, all that mattered is that he got the best chance to live.

If that is the case, then he absolutely MUST be charged if he survives, with 300 million counts of attempted murder (or whatever) and be given a life sentence. That kind of reckless behaviour cannot be tolerated at all, or we are going to see a flood of people doing the same thing, and that will have dire consequences for us all.

 

[Sonya610]

I just came across this article and found it interesting, snippets (less than 10% of article) of some of the content are below. Maybe we should email a link to the hospital and health department handling the Dallas case, it sounds like they could use the help.

Read the whole thing here: http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/lab-bio/res/psds-ftss/ebola-eng.php


EBOLAVIRUS -- PATHOGEN SAFETY DATA SHEET - INFECTIOUS SUBSTANCES

Early signs of infection are non-specific and flu-like, and may include sudden onset of fever, asthenia, diarrhea, headache, myalgia, arthralgia, vomiting, and abdominal pains.

Haemorrhagic symptoms may begin 4 - 5 days after onset, including hemorrhagic conjunctivitis, pharyngitis, bleeding gums, oral/lip ulceration <snip> Haemorrhagic diathesis is often accompanied by hepatic damage and renal failure, central nervous system involvement, and terminal shock with multi-organ failure.

Pregnant women will usually abort their foetuses and experience copious bleeding. (So the woman likely DID have a miscarriage due to the Ebola.)

In laboratory settings, non-human primates exposed to aerosolized ebolavirus from pigs have become infected, however, airborne transmission has not been demonstrated between non-human primates.

DISINFECTANTS: Ebolavirus is susceptible to 3% acetic acid, 1% glutaraldehyde, alcohol-based products, and dilutions (1:10-1:100 for &#8805;10 minutes) of 5.25% household bleach (sodium hypochlorite), and calcium hypochlorite (bleach powder). The WHO recommendations for cleaning up spills of blood or body fluids suggest flooding the area with a 1:10 dilutions of 5.25% household bleach for 10 minutes for surfaces that can tolerate stronger bleach solutions (e.g., cement, metal).

Ebola are moderately thermolabile and can be inactivated by heating for 30 minutes to 60 minutes at 60°C, or boiling for 5 minutes.

CLEANING SPILLS: Allow aerosols to settle and, wearing protective clothing, gently cover spill with paper towels and apply suitable disinfectant, starting at the perimeter and working towards the centre. Allow sufficient contact time before clean-up. (i.e. I think this means do NOT use a pressure washer to blast away ebola infected vomit on the sidewalk).

PRIMARY LABORATORY HAZARDS: Accidental parenteral inoculation, respiratory exposure to infectious aerosols/droplets, and/or direct contact with skin or mucous membranes.

 

[Elley Mae]

In my opinion he knew that he probably was infected, and he flew to America before he showed symptoms, and lied about it along the way so no one would stop him, so that he would be treated in an American hospital rather than be left in a Liberian tent. I don't think he gave a rats a** about who else might be infected along the way, all that mattered is that he got the best chance to live.

If that is the case, then he absolutely MUST be charged if he survives, with 300 million counts of attempted murder (or whatever) and be given a life sentence. That kind of reckless behaviour cannot be tolerated at all, or we are going to see a flood of people doing the same thing, and that will have dire consequences for us all.

Spot on. Thanks

 

[Detective Klimpt]

This is not a witch hunt on my part, just curiosity on how this happened under our noses. How was this family moved and no-one saw it????? There were forty reporters outside a few days ago and I'm sure that number has increased.

Give it a day, and we will all know where there are. In fact, it may be known by now, as I am not yet at the end of reading the new posts on this thread.

 

[Mariel Van Arkle]

I just came across this article and found it interesting, snippets (less than 10% of article) of some of the content are below. Maybe we should email a link to the hospital and health department handling the Dallas case, it sounds like they could use the help.

Read the whole thing here: http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/lab-bio/res/psds-ftss/ebola-eng.php


EBOLAVIRUS -- PATHOGEN SAFETY DATA SHEET - INFECTIOUS SUBSTANCES

Early signs of infection are non-specific and flu-like, and may include sudden onset of fever, asthenia, diarrhea, headache, myalgia, arthralgia, vomiting, and abdominal pains.

Haemorrhagic symptoms may begin 4 - 5 days after onset, including hemorrhagic conjunctivitis, pharyngitis, bleeding gums, oral/lip ulceration <snip> Haemorrhagic diathesis is often accompanied by hepatic damage and renal failure, central nervous system involvement, and terminal shock with multi-organ failure.

Pregnant women will usually abort their foetuses and experience copious bleeding. (So the woman likely DID have a miscarriage due to the Ebola.)

In laboratory settings, non-human primates exposed to aerosolized ebolavirus from pigs have become infected, however, airborne transmission has not been demonstrated between non-human primates.

DISINFECTANTS: Ebolavirus is susceptible to 3% acetic acid, 1% glutaraldehyde, alcohol-based products, and dilutions (1:10-1:100 for &#8805;10 minutes) of 5.25% household bleach (sodium hypochlorite), and calcium hypochlorite (bleach powder). The WHO recommendations for cleaning up spills of blood or body fluids suggest flooding the area with a 1:10 dilutions of 5.25% household bleach for 10 minutes for surfaces that can tolerate stronger bleach solutions (e.g., cement, metal).

Ebola are moderately thermolabile and can be inactivated by heating for 30 minutes to 60 minutes at 60°C, or boiling for 5 minutes.

CLEANING SPILLS: Allow aerosols to settle and, wearing protective clothing, gently cover spill with paper towels and apply suitable disinfectant, starting at the perimeter and working towards the centre. Allow sufficient contact time before clean-up. (i.e. I think this means do NOT use a pressure washer to blast away ebola infected vomit on the sidewalk especially when you are breathing it all in without a mask).

PRIMARY LABORATORY HAZARDS: Accidental parenteral inoculation, respiratory exposure to infectious aerosols/droplets, and/or direct contact with skin or mucous membranes.

BBM, CBM -- wow, so ebola is killed with acetic acid -- that's vinegar, right? and alcohol -- hand sanitizer. I'm SAFE!

J/K and MOO

 

[websurfer]

When we first heard about this outbreak it seemed that it was not 100% under control.
Now...to make matters worse, the man who was just found to have it, has an apartment which is
under strict confinement.

He walked by people, spoke to people, touched people,it could be spreading still.

We all do have something to worry about.

 

[popsicle]

Why hasn't Howard Univ Hospital received tests on the possible Ebola pt yet? They are still reporting this pt as possible Ebola and they should have the first tests back by now.

 

[Sonya610]

BBM, CBM -- wow, so ebola is killed with acetic acid -- that's vinegar, right? and alcohol -- hand sanitizer. I'm SAFE!

J/K and MOO

If you like cleaning with vinegar you should also get a spray bottle and fill it with regular hydrogen peroxide. If you spray one and then the other (do not mix in the same bottle) it becomes an extremely effective disinfectant. It is popular with small animal keepers because it is non-toxic and does not have obnoxious fumes once dried.

It is also recommended for disinfecting produce.

Peroxide & Vinegar Sterilization is a simple, inexpensive but effective home method of sterilizing produce using everyday products in the home. It will kill almost all Salmonella, Shigella, and E. coli O157:H7 bacteria. You only need two spray bottles from a dollar store, white vinegar, and drug store hydrogen peroxide.

http://www.cooksinfo.com/peroxide-vinegar-sterilization

 

[CARIIS]

I saw video of them coming out and fown the stairs - but i do not remember where - if I get a brain re-awakening for some surprise reason I shall post. Dont know wheres either nor know which youger person it was but a still photo also and he smiling --IMO kinda goofy appearing...................

Give it a day, and we will all know where there are. In fact, it may be known by now, as I am not yet at the end of reading the new posts on this thread.

 

[CARIIS]

Throughout all of this I found it amusing that the reporters in this story were totally fine with having boundaries-- ha!! I know why but it is funny that one "daring" film crew did not end up crawling on the roof , a tree, fly a drone in , a trampline (!) to invade there privacy!!!!!!!