Ebola outbreak - general thread #2

[jjenny]

''As 9-year-old Mercy Kennedy sobbed along with neighbors mourning news of her mother's death, not a person would touch the little girl to comfort her.

Mercy's mother had helped to wash the pregnant woman's clothes, and had touched her body after she died at home when no hospital could find space for her, neighbors said.'''

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/66a8...texas-ebola-patients-neighborhood-scores-sick

View attachment 60622 GOD bless this child

ETA Why will they not touch her if it's only spread through fluids ? Why would not one person give this child a hug? Do they know something we do not?

They have an incredibly bad ritual of touching the dead body. Which they need to stop, regardless of whether they know if the person died of Ebola or not. This is how it spreads.

 

[CARIIS]

I think there is a lot of cultural stuff here. She did have bleach and put it on the mattress. Look at how confused the CDC is - I am sure they were given all sorts of misinformation themselves as to what they were to do, what the "system" was going to do etc.
All around a sad story and a sadder "handling" of the problem

And... it certainly has not get better - RE: the plane today (link below":

My concern is, if this were something that were highly contagious, we did not seem to have a very good reaction plan," he said. "We seemed very uncoordinated at the airport. I hope we learn from it."


He is getting worse

[h=1]U.S. Ebola patient's condition worsens[/h]
http://www.cnn.com/


http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/04/us/new-york-flight-sick-passenger/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Okay so let's assume some of us were in the same situation (isolated in an apartment with our loved ones, presumably no washer/dryer, but they had a hot water and a sink/bathtub).

Instead of living in ebola infected squalor I would have asked for sheets, plastic mattress liners, gloves, and BLEACH. At the very very least they would have given them bleach! Then I would start to clean the place myself and throw the infected linens into a closet or back room.

It sounds to me like these "poor people" were just living there without even TRYING to disinfect and protect themselves? I do think if they DID try to clean the place the media would have reported that. The woman had kids living with her, she should have at least TRIED to protect them.

 

[popsicle]

I understand that the media is trying to keep people in the loop and I totally appreciate that however maybe instead of hyping things up they should wait until the test results come back. I do get though in this case it would have probably made it to the news anyway being that he was vomiting in an airplane and the CDC showing up in hazmat suits. I feel like the media is causing panic. Most of the cases they have reported on the test have turned up negative for Ebola. That's why I'm saying maybe they should wait until the test results before reporting. The newark case is different though that would have got out since CDC was involved and because of it being in such a public place.

MSM is not going to let another media source out scoop them in case the Ebola test is positive. :facepalm:

 

[Donamena]

They have an incredibly bad ritual of touching the dead body. Which they need to stop, regardless of whether they know if the person died of Ebola or not. This is how it spreads.

Then I would guess that if this is truly the case & not just body fluids but particulate matter as well, we need to get Navajo on this.

 

[CARIIS]

"But (authorities) said we shouldn't throw anything away until they can get back with me," Louise said.

Her 35-year-old daughter brought over Clorox to help clean the house, and she sealed up Duncan's dirty clothes and towels in a bag.

Louise told CNN that authorities had her sign paperwork stating "if we step outside, they are going to take us ... to court (because) we'll have committed a crime." So there she has stayed, along with her 13-year-old son and two nephews in their 20s. But it hasn't been easy.

She said no one brought food Thursday to four people who can't leave to get it themselves, at least until later in the day. There was also the matter of their power going out, which was likely related to strong storms that rolled through the area. Then, of course, there's the idea of living in a place that -- just a few days ago -- was home to an Ebola sufferer.

Reflecting on it all, Louise said Thursday, "I'm just hanging in there, depending on God to save our lives."


When Duncan arrived in the United States on September 20, "he didn't tell me that he came in contact with anybody with Ebola," Louise said. Nor was he showing any signs of the virus.
But things changed three days later, when Duncan got a headache and a fever, according to his partner.



Duncan was taken by ambulance to the hospital on Sunday, September 28, after Louise's 35-year-old daughter saw him "shaking really hard" and with a fever when she came by to give him tea.


Louise said she went to the hospital herself soon thereafter, seeing Duncan "through the glass."
It was then that health officials first told her that medical officials first told her that her partner may have Ebola.



"I was so (scared)," Louise said........................


http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/02/us/texas-woman-quarantine-ebola-thomas-duncan/index.html

IMO in addition to culture we so not educationial background here as well

 

[Trino]

MSM is not going to let another media source out scoop them in case the Ebola test is positive. :facepalm:

The media is on to this. They will know very quickly.

 

[Lyra500]

I just thought '' they can't put on a glove and hold her hand? put on something protective and give her a hug''.. Then I thought ' would I? ' Seriously ? Would I , knowing for certain she has been highly exposed to something like this and seeing her broken heart, would I put on a glove and hold her hand or be too terrified ? I am a big enough person to admit that I am a small enough person that I do not know if I would. That makes me a total a$$ .

I remember an interview with the British nurse who was infected. He said one of the most distressing things was not being able to comfort patients properly - particularly children. Imagine being alone and afraid in one of those isolation units. You may well have witnessed other people dying including your own parents or children - and the people coming to comfort you are wearing hazmat suits. Not even the comfort of real human contact while you die.

 

[CARIIS]

Another article from the Liberian Observer, with details about Duncan leaving work. http://www.liberianobserver.com/news/man-who-took-ebola-us-will-be-‘prosecuted’

I would assume he been s observing people left and right duffering oozing blood out of hteir , etc for months, and realized the preganant woman died of Ebola , freaked out and knew AMerica would be the best place4 to get horribly sick with a illiness with a high mortaility rate.

IMO we must not forget that this human being is in a bed, suffering . Did he lie yes, not sure who might not make they same choice when it comes to saving ones own life.

THe real, IMO, issue is the hospital messed up, I think the three days is what is freaking most out. Just imo........

 

[Brightbird]

''As 9-year-old Mercy Kennedy sobbed along with neighbors mourning news of her mother's death, not a person would touch the little girl to comfort her.

Mercy's mother had helped to wash the pregnant woman's clothes, and had touched her body after she died at home when no hospital could find space for her, neighbors said.'''

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/66a8...texas-ebola-patients-neighborhood-scores-sick

View attachment 60622 GOD bless this child

ETA Why will they not touch her if it's only spread through fluids ? Why would not one person give this child a hug? Do they know something we do not?

I don't think they know something we don't. It's just fear and stigma. If I've been reading this thread correctly, I think many of us wouldn't want to sit next to someone who was recently exposed to Ebola. I'd include myself in that even though 'rationally' I think it's highly unlikely if not impossible to catch it like that. I think it's what we/they don't know, not something special they know which we don't.

 

[CARIIS]

Sana Syed @dallaspiosana · 6h 6 hours ago There is no plan for a press conf or release today. Will do my best to tweet any updates I get today.


Yeh, its Saturday, officials day off........lets go to the fair......we will followup on this after our weekend. (25 Years ago my bet would be congress would be in session today) Its nausating, and pervasive these days.........IMO only


https://twitter.com/dallaspiosana

 

[LaborDayRN]

There is a lot of fear here, and I understand it. I respect everyone's right to be afraid and to voice those fears.
However, in the interest of mental health and also faith in the principles of ISOLATION, I would like to reiterate:

Every hospital in the USA knows how to put a patient in Isolation, and every nurse who's been a nurse for any length of time has taken care of patients in isolation.

It does NOT matter what the name of the disease is. Contact isolation is contact isolation.

If hospitals need to re-educate their staff personnel on how to apply, wear and dispose of the disposable parts of their isolation gear, then I hope they are holding inservices right now.
There is NO excuse for those with direct patient care not knowing how to use isolation personal protection gear. Ignorance is not an excuse.
The next patient could turn up in a town with one hospital and a population of 10,000. Those nurses, doctors, resp. therapists, and ancillary personnel delivering supplies have to be as prepared as nurses at Johns Hopkins do.
The equipment is the same. The procedures are the same.

Fear is driving thinking. This is dangerous to our health care providers and it has to stop and go back to the elements of isolation.
Ebola is spread by direct contact between an infected Ebola positive person's bodily secretions and the mucous membranes of another person.
Period.

The thanks button wasn't enough. :tyou:

 

[Lyra500]

First thing on his page is a link to Time Photojournalism Daily, a picture of a little 4-year-old girl suspected of having ebola lying on the floor of a ward. There's another child lying on the floor in the background.

This is the article - Sierra Leone in this case:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/02/w...-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0#

A Hospital From Hell, in a City Swamped by Ebola

 

[BlueberryBird]

SCHMAE I read it too. Years ago. It's still around here somewhere. Good TRUE story. JMO * found it. author Richard Preston.

The Hot Zone is very sensationalized and full of inaccuracies., including about how the symptoms present in people. I highly recommend Spillover, by David Quammen. Spillover is very well written, reasoned, well researched and also more up to date. It covers a bunch of zoonotic viruses, not just Ebola.

 

[LaborDayRN]

Ok but the RNs are saying care of ebola patients requires a step above general infectious disease control practices. That it has some unique issues such as donning protective gear, not sure what else. No doubt fear makes many feel inadequate and doubt their abilities as well.

I haven't talked to one of my own co-workers who has expressed the concerns stated in this article. (and by the way my unit alone has over 80 RN's). We're professionals. We've been trained. Yes, it isn't something we've dealt with before (ebola), but we HAVE dealt with many types of isolation patients.

 

[DeDee]

I don't think they know something we don't. It's just fear and stigma. If I've been reading this thread correctly, I think many of us wouldn't want to sit next to someone who was recently exposed to Ebola. I'd include myself in that even though 'rationally' I think it's highly unlikely if not impossible to catch it like that. I think it's what we/they don't know, not something special they know which we don't.

Burial procedures of infected persons is highly important since the person is still infected. They need to be wrapped in dbl layers and buried deep in the ground almost immediately to prevent animals from eating an infected host. There are many pics online but they are very graphic. There is one that shows several in the community digging an entire row of graves that are waiting on the infected bodies.

~~~~~~~~~~~

The symptoms limit a person's ability to spread the disease as they are often too sick to travel.[19] Because dead bodies are still infectious, local traditional burial rituals may spread the disease.[20] Nearly two thirds of the cases of Ebola in Guinea during the 2014 outbreak are believed to be due to burial practices.[21]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebola_virus_disease

It said the risk to travellers visiting friends and relatives in affected countries was similarly low "unless the traveller has direct physical contact with a sick or dead person or animal infected with Ebola virus".

The long list of advice to affected states includes screening all travellers leaving for fever, banning the remains of those who have died of Ebola from being transported across borders, and ensuring "funerals and burials are conducted by well-trained personnel".

http://www.theguardian.com/society/...utbreak-international-public-health-emergency

 

[CARIIS]

I think the media needs to remember that there have been many outbreaks of Ebola, this strain has been wrecking havic for 6 months over there.... so this a pretty solid notion about transmission (Identical to HIV - body fluids) sneeze cough nope.

In it present mutation..... that is the key thing if it does not mutate it will transmit in the same fashion. If it was iffy in terms of this important component there would be a heck of a lot more people over there dying.

The standard of living over there etc -- think about it ...if it was easily tranmitted with a cough or sneeze it would be huge there ........................kind of same with malaria over there etc etc

so if it is not going rampant over there the liklihood of it doing so here is even less

the real deal IMO, is how they have demonsrtated how clueless they are SO if we got a really transmittable virus can you imagine, and as officais have proven once it is not on the front page, nothing will change, unless they get a second chance with , hopefully, is as hard to tranmit as this

IMO forget it if it goes airborne, or any go airborne ---anyone remember SARS that was scary stuff!!!!

 

[lawstudent]

Then I would guess that if this is truly the case & not just body fluids but particulate matter as well, we need to get Navajo on this.

There are bodily fluids on a dead body... I would imagine most Liberians do not die in hospitals or care facilities, given the infrastructure, and funeral homes are not a part of every culture. The family takes care of the burial process. People touch dead bodies here as well - they just usually work for the funeral home.

 

[SeekingJana]

Ok but the RNs are saying care of ebola patients requires a step above general infectious disease control practices. That it has some unique issues such as donning protective gear, not sure what else. No doubt fear makes many feel inadequate and doubt their abilities as well.

Donning protective gear IS the definition of " medical isolation". To be basically specific: the care of a person with Ebola and large amounts of body fluids needing to be cleaned or removed ( vomitus, diarrhea, blood) would include: Water and fluid proof disposable long sleeve gowns. fluid proof aprons, full face masks or N- 95 respirator masks with separate goggles, gloving with frequent glove changes, hair covers, and possibly shoe covers if there is a lot of body fluids gushing out such as blood, vomitus or diarrhea.

Gear has to be removed in a way so as not to expose the dirty side to the wearer, and it has to be changed frequently.
So, anyone reading this should be able to maintain a barrier field assuming that they know how to dress themselves, and remove clothing without touching the outer surfaces.

 

[CARIIS]

The test for Eboloa

http://www.newsweek.com/how-hospitals-test-ebola-274898

 

[SallyLu]

"But (authorities) said we shouldn't throw anything away until they can get back with me," Louise said.

Her 35-year-old daughter brought over Clorox to help clean the house, and she sealed up Duncan's dirty clothes and towels in a bag.

Louise told CNN that authorities had her sign paperwork stating "if we step outside, they are going to take us ... to court (because) we'll have committed a crime." So there she has stayed, along with her 13-year-old son and two nephews in their 20s. But it hasn't been easy.

She said no one brought food Thursday to four people who can't leave to get it themselves, at least until later in the day. There was also the matter of their power going out, which was likely related to strong storms that rolled through the area. Then, of course, there's the idea of living in a place that -- just a few days ago -- was home to an Ebola sufferer.

Reflecting on it all, Louise said Thursday, "I'm just hanging in there, depending on God to save our lives."


When Duncan arrived in the United States on September 20, "he didn't tell me that he came in contact with anybody with Ebola," Louise said. Nor was he showing any signs of the virus.
But things changed three days later, when Duncan got a headache and a fever, according to his partner.



Duncan was taken by ambulance to the hospital on Sunday, September 28, after Louise's 35-year-old daughter saw him "shaking really hard" and with a fever when she came by to give him tea.


Louise said she went to the hospital herself soon thereafter, seeing Duncan "through the glass."
It was then that health officials first told her that medical officials first told her that her partner may have Ebola.



"I was so (scared)," Louise said........................


http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/02/us/texas-woman-quarantine-ebola-thomas-duncan/index.html

IMO in addition to culture we so not educationial background here as well

BOLDED BY ME. That makes the date, Tuesday.