Ebola outbreak - general thread #2

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #781
I think that the concern may stem from reports back in August:

"Emory says it is just 1 of 4 hospitals in the United States capable of treating a patient with the Ebola virus. Hospital officials on Friday said the first patient will come in the next several days and the second patient will arrive a few days after that. The Ebola patients will be in a special containment facility, nowhere near any other patients at the hospital."

http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/story/26171011/ebola-patient-atlanta-hospital

It sounded like only "elite" hospitals could treat an Ebola patient.

No. While we are in the current state of knowledge about Ebola, the only standardized treatment available is supportive treatment. This means- administer IV fluids to correct fluid and electrolyte imbalances from vomiting and diarrhea, and if the patient reaches the 4th stage of the disease, which is the hemorrhagic phase, then blood products may have to be given, with a close watch to prevent DIC, which is a deadly intravascular coagulopathy.
DIC is extremely difficult to reverse and control if it occurs, because you are still giving blood products on one hand, and trying to prevent the intravascular clotting with anti-coagulants on the other hand. It is a precarious situation.
The success of treatment and recovery depends upon many factors, and while Emory does have access to some of the best Infectious Disease specialists and Pulmonologists, other hospitals have doctors who can set just as good a clinical pathway. I worked in Atlanta area hospitals and Emory was not a top rated facility at that time. It simply happens to be in close contact with the CDC, as all metro Atlanta hospitals are or can be if they choose to make the call. Any hospital in the USA can call the CDC for the same type of treatment guidelines. Happens all the time.
 
  • #782
A very belated thanks and you're welcome to the posts about transcribing the presser earlier! It was the first time I've ever tried that, and I have always been in awe of the people who do that so well when I'm at work! But, in all honesty, it wasn't that long or that informative. I am from Houston, living in Indiana, but all of my family is in Dallas. Was supposed to be there this weekend for the Houston @ Dallas NFL game. Work interfered, and I was unable to go. I haven't been home in 2 years, but I'm actually relieved not to be flying into DFW tomorrow...

And thanks for those who shared the pictures of the children in West Africa, but I just can't right now :tears:
 
  • #783
t remains clear that close contact with an infected person or their bodily fluids are needed for infection to happen. There’s nothing mysterious about how Ebola spreads, and it's not as easily transmitted as influenza or measles.

Ebola is not
a respiratory disease like the flu, so it is not transmitted through the air .


Spreading
through the air has not been documented in the natural environment.

Ebola is not a food borne or water borne illness,


A lot of what has happened over there is because the place is "notoriously poor, filthy and overcrowded West Point slum, in the capital, Monrovia"

forget about the tales of horrific bleeding from the eyes nose and mouth. Bleeding is one of the most unusual symptoms, the team of experts from around the world said.

In some places, residents still don’t believe Ebola is a virus

spread more widely than any previous outbreak of Ebola, in part because it broke out in an area where people travel widely across borders.


contact with blood or bodily fluids

Ebola virus can be eliminated with heat (heating for 30 to 60 minutes at 60 °C or boiling for 5 minutes). On surfaces, some lipid solvents such as some alcohol-based products, detergents, sodium hypochlorite (bleach) or calcium hypochlorite (bleaching powder), and other suitable disinfectants at appropriate concentrations can be used as disinfectants.[66

As of September 2014, information from WHO across all occurrences to date puts the overall fatality rate at 50%.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebola_virus_disease#cite_note-WHO2014-1"]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebola_virus_disease#Differential_diagnosis


[/URL]https://www.facebook.com/CDC/posts/10152387042686026

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/eb...70-percent-who-says-dire-new-forecast-n209226
 
  • #784
Burial procedures of infected persons is highly important since the person is still infected. They need to be wrapped in dbl layers and buried deep in the ground almost immediately to prevent animals from eating an infected host. There are many pics online but they are very graphic. There is one that shows several in the community digging an entire row of graves that are waiting on the infected bodies.

~~~~~~~~~~~

The symptoms limit a person's ability to spread the disease as they are often too sick to travel.[19] Because dead bodies are still infectious, local traditional burial rituals may spread the disease.[20] Nearly two thirds of the cases of Ebola in Guinea during the 2014 outbreak are believed to be due to burial practices.[21]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebola_virus_disease

It said the risk to travellers visiting friends and relatives in affected countries was similarly low "unless the traveller has direct physical contact with a sick or dead person or animal infected with Ebola virus".

The long list of advice to affected states includes screening all travellers leaving for fever, banning the remains of those who have died of Ebola from being transported across borders, and ensuring "funerals and burials are conducted by well-trained personnel".

http://www.theguardian.com/society/...utbreak-international-public-health-emergency

Ok, but I was talking about why people haven't gone to comfort an alive little girl who's mother died of Ebola. I assume neighbours were afraid the little girl had contracted Ebola through exposure from her mother. Current knowledge is that Ebola isn't contagious from living people who aren't symptomatic. Yet even even with that knowledge, many of us would not want to be near someone recently exposed but not symptomatic. That's a different situation to having direct contact with a dead body infected with Ebola. Maybe you were just jumping off my post, but I want to make it clear I wasn't talking about touching someone who is already symptomatic or dead.
 
  • #785
Its been going on since March over there. I started following intensely in the beginning then MAL 370 happened. There is a lot of cultural stuff over there that impacts what has happened over there. They have intense burial rituals which include touching the corpse and stuff. For quite a while they did not know any of this - look at how over here in America lots of stuff is flying around the media that is not fact!

But imagine trying not to touch your 2-year-old daughter when she is feverish, vomiting blood and in pain. They were doing these behaviors for long periods of time in the beginning, uneducated, are faced with a lot of diseases typically, so when this started they did not know not to touch , care for, hold hands etc.

Its normal human behavior. Now with education which has been really hard over there, (its identical to what went on here with HIV) and IMO, it seems as if the essence its transmission is actually pretty identical to HIV. They were touching sweaty loved ones, cleaning up messes, have horrible tantalization as it is , so the dynamics in that part of the world are hugely different.

Ont get me wrong - the folks have clearly shown they are clueless. Just like an earlier post, (airplane today cops in gas masks- not needed unless they plan on kissing them!) and those images add to the misunderstandings as to what is meaningful to do and what is just panic.

Today, we all know that one does not need a mask when around an HIV infected person, time has borne that out. Same here, there have been outbreaks since the 70's and it never has become infectious to others without direct physical contact.

That is why it is not Sontag until the whole deal starts....then they are sweating, vomiting, bowel issues all things that result in contact (if not protected) with body fluids then at risk. passengers are not typically exchanging body fluids (except for the mile high club!).

Simply put- it went out of control over there for a whole host of reasons that have nothing to do with the virus itself, but a host of variables that facilitated its spread. I am confident people over there die from a flu bugaboo!

Media is not helping here -- how many Americans were vomiting before Duncan (175,254,213!). How many passengers on an aircraft have vomited on a daily basis (562,245,214 daily!)

And just like with HIV education is number one --- and they are really muddling it up IMO, which makes everything work. Now anyone who vomits is going to slam the emergency room. After the medical mess staff in hospitals are going to be covering there butts to a unnecessary degree. Anyone with a fever will be admitted. People who are vomiting are going to be admitted.

The media really needs to get its act together it is doing a horrible job IMO and just remember the HIV hysteria in the beginning, and even when science got to the point where they KNEW it was, medically, fluids contact, it took the world years before they believed that and body suits came off etc.

Like I said I followed it in the beginning - and they really do know that this strain is not airborne, very difficult to get and in an ironic way with education much better than a virus than is contagious when NOT symptomatic -- think about it... if media does its job, folks (its happening over there now) know when someone is very ill, to refrain from doing what comes naturally.

Nigeria has done a splendid job IMO, and the real reason for that is cause their breakout started later so they new some of the basic things to educate their public on in light of the illness.




IMO the media, at this point, is far more dangerous than the Ebola virus.............................





What I don't get is why did we just start hearing about people being screened for Ebola after the Duncan event? Surely people who have been in W Africa have been going to hospitals with theses symptoms forever.
 
  • #786
I think the media needs to remember that there have been many outbreaks of Ebola, this strain has been wrecking havic for 6 months over there.... so this a pretty solid notion about transmission (Identical to HIV - body fluids) sneeze cough nope.

Snipped by me. I have to disagree that it is identical transmission as HIV. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't get HIV from a person's sweat as you can with ebola. In addition, with ebola, if someone sneezes and touches an item, and then an uninfected person touches that item, they are at risk.

Ebola may not be as easily transmitted from person to person as something like a cold or the flu, but it is definitely more easily transmitted than HIV.
 
  • #787
Also to add, HIV doesn't survive outside the body whereas ebola does.

To confirm what I said above, this CDC link says that HIV is not transmitted via saliva or sweat whereas ebola can be transmitted those ways.

http://www.aids.gov/frequently-asked-questions/
 
  • #788
Snipped by me. I have to disagree that it is identical transmission as HIV. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't get HIV from a person's sweat as you can with ebola. In addition, with ebola, if someone sneezes and touches an item, and then an uninfected person touches that item, they are at risk.

So to me, it may not be as transmittable as something like a cold or the flu, but it does seem somewhat more transmittable than HIV.



http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/03/u...s-of-ebola-and-what-direct-contact-means.html


That is where my frustration with media is from- by that I mean I could get struck by lightening! But the odds...

Dr. Frieden emphasized that the odds of contracting Ebola in the United States were still extremely low. The disease is not contagious during the incubation period, and patients do not transmit it until they develop symptoms, he said. And those with symptoms will probably feel sick enough to stay home. People are highly unlikely to catch the disease on the bus or subway, Dr. Frieden said

Blood, vomit, urine and diarrhea from very sick patients are highly infectious, but other body fluids like sweat, saliva, tears, semen and breast milk are also risky. But there is a BUT here --I think most dont like hugging someone who just ran a mile and is all sweaty!

If someone lost control of their bowels on a subway most would step away! Same of someone was puking in elevator! But all that stepping away is exactly the opposite of what one would do if it was someone one knew.

If I was in an elevator, with a friend , and they started vomiting, in all liklihood I would lean in, it would be OK (not really you know what I mean!) if I got a little on me etc etc.

Body fluids do include salavia - so I suppose if someone came up and spit at ones eye, on an open cut, or down there throat they probably could get sick, but the liklihood of someone randomly coming up to a stranger and doing that are low IMO!

My comparasion to HIV is based on this:
Direct contact means that the fluids splash or spray into someone else’s mouth, eyes or nose, or enter the bloodstream through cuts or breaks in the skin.

Identical to HIV, as it relates to what direct contact means. Since sex is connected saliva is more involved, the odds of touching and open cut or break in the skin is probably more likely in bed than in public , but the notion of direct contact is identical - the only real thing that is different is the liklihood of contact is different casue sex is different than riding a bus (I think!) Well maybe not in all situations -- thats funny!

The virus does not spread through the air, unlike measles or chickenpox. And Ebola does not invade healthy skin, so merely touching secretions does not mean an infection will follow.

Ebola does not cause respiratory problems, but a cough from a sick patient could infect someone close enough to be sprayed with droplets of mucus or saliva. Again, IMO we all do have public social behaviors, I think most of us if we were to cough would make an effort not to do it "on" someone! A lot has to happen for someone to cough, in public, down my throat!

There is social stuff, a mother would not freak if thier child coughed in their face, you know what I am saying! There is a whole social entity here.

the virus can survive for a few hours on dry surfaces like doorknobs and countertops. WIth that I would say one would have to have a cut, and touch the knob - could it happen sure, but the liklihood of opening a door, and having a small cut exactly where needed, again, is like a lot of stuff to line up,

Bleach solutions can kill it.

In AMerica if someone puked in a public place some staff member would come clean it up (I would hope).

You should see thier drinking stuff over there forget Ebola its gross, and then again we are back to salavia with that stuff. THey also do not do a lot of toilets -- so we xan extrapolate that out with loose bowels.......



Just my opionion!
 
  • #789
I have been gone for hours............is Duncan still the only Ebola in USA?
What is his condition now?
The guy on airplane? does he have ebola?
 
  • #790
RE: he can return to work as nursing assistant... but his family must remain in quarantine

Guys to me that is nuts, a nursing assistant has a lot higher chance of being in contact with body fluids - I could get someone telling a landscaper its ok to go back to work but where does a nursing assistnat work -- does that one make sense to anyone?


Last night, though visibly relieved at the news he had received from CDC and State Health officials Mr Yah said that he did not intend to return to work for several days at least.

He said, ‘I am glad but right now I want to be here for my family. I need to look after them. Money is not easy but sometimes things are more important than money.

‘Family is more important.’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rsing-assistant-family-remain-quarantine.html


[/QUOTE]
 
  • #791
  • #792
And see....it goes back to meida IMO! There are now millions of images of folks wearing space suits! The correlation is ahhhh run. But the media is not pointing out what the folks that are having to suit up are doing. Over there they are nursing, they are drawing blood, they are cleaning up messes, they are lifting people, the suits are not like from Ebola ( I know that sounds crazy) but needed depending on the job or role and liklihood of having direct contract with fluids from activly ill folks.

Same with the cleaners at the apt ----images everyhwere......what were they there to do? Touch everything, touch all sorts of body fluids from an individual KNOWN to be infected.

The correlation between haz mat "stuff" has to do with what the person is going to touch as oppossed to the virus being highly contagious. IMO
 
  • #793
Maybe they're ok with the nursing assistant going back because he is going to be aware of what to look out for and will be more likely to self-monitor - double checking for a fever and all that and making sure to clean his hands thoroughly and wear gloves. My guess is they know who had the most contact and are isolating a lot of people just as an extra precaution. Children usually have a lot more problems with proper hygiene and articulating how they are feeling - they are more likely to spread it than someone who works in a clean environment and is educated about that sort of thing.
 
  • #794
You cant tell me all these Drs don't know or follow infectious protocol and yet are getting infected.
 
  • #795
RE: HIV is not transmitted via saliva or sweat whereas ebola can be transmitted those ways. It hits me more correlated with social behaviors in terms of public behaviors. By that I mean someone spitting in a doorknob or spitting at me just seems in public setting with a stranger seems like a highly unlikely event. If someone came up and spit on me Ebola or not I would head for somewhere to wash. It kinda IMO the same with in public/stranger like would a random person all sweaty come up to me and rub on me? They could but we have different social stuff just my notions!

Also to add, HIV doesn't survive outside the body whereas ebola does.

To confirm what I said above, this CDC link says that HIV is not transmitted via saliva or sweat whereas ebola can be transmitted those ways.

http://www.aids.gov/frequently-asked-questions/
 
  • #796
@CARIIS, exactly.

The symptoms of ebola are such that most people would avoid going out and most people who come into contact with that person would not be getting too close to them.

It's so different than something like respiratory illness because 1) people with it often still go to work and 2) the symptoms of the disease cause you to keep sneezing all over people or in confined spaces. With ebola, saliva randomly going onto someone is much less of a risk, and there's no risk to it just being in the air like with the cold virus on a bus or plane.

And yes, you can get HIV from saliva, but obviously that very rarely happens. Now, I believe it is less present in saliva than ebola is, and HIV is less contagious than ebola I think, but it requires that person to have a cut in their mouth. That's not terribly unusual, but people are unlikely to be making out with or spit on by ebola victims while they have a cut. It doesn't just go through your skin. It's like the whole controversy with the diver with HIV who hit his head in the olympic pool - that wasn't a good thing, but even blood isn't going to just penetrate swimmers' skin - transmission that way is unlikely.

ETA: I believe saliva does contain the HIV virus, but it doesn't survive well in it and only a few antibodies are left, so there are no documented cases of transmission.
 
  • #797
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-struggling-to-bury-the-ebola-dead-heres-why/

....burial traditions has contributed to widespread difficulties in containing the spread of the disease among mourners and those caring for the dead.

be aware of the [victim's] family’s cultural practices and religious beliefs,” and to “help the family understand why some practices cannot be done because they place the family or others at risk for exposure.”

traditional practices the WHO says cannot be followed with Ebola victims: family-led body preparation and religious rituals that require direct contact with the corpse. Muslim tradition, for instance, requires that family members of the same gender should wash the body themselves before burial.

There are religiously driven rules about who can handle a dead body, and how. But those rules are often in direct conflict with the procedures health officials must follow to minimize the risk that the disease will spread, because after death is a particularly dangerous time for Ebola infection.


“When the person has just died, that is when the body is most contagious,”

Despite the prevailing narrative of cultural differences presenting a dangerous situation on the ground, Jasarevic, the WHO spokesman, said that his organization believes the bigger problem that there simply aren’t enough trained people on the ground in Liberia, Sierra Leone and Guinea who are capable of dealing with the daily deaths in a proper manner.


the burial problems in Liberia have shown, it’s taking too long for trained workers to deal with dead bodies, leading to increased risk of infection and tension with officials once they do arrive. And in many communities, people blame outsiders for the spread of the disease.

For months they did not know about this nor did they do it:

Sierra Leone as a relative success case. Officials there have created “dead body management” teams, often staffed by paid members of the community, to bury the dead, and the system seems to be improving overall.

Its really bad in tis place:
“In Monrovia, the capital city, there isn’t enough space in the specialized isolation unit to hold all of the city’s symptomatic cases. The Ministry of Health wanted to expand the unit at Elwa Hospital, on the outskirts of Monrovia, but the local community fought back, physically, making it impossible to secure health staff.”

Those treating Ebola victims are especially at risk of infection: When a Liberian-American government official named Patrick Sawyer managed to fly to Nigeria with the disease, which is spread only by direct contact with the bodily fluids of a symptomatic victim, several health workers in Lagos fell ill after treating him. Both Sawyer and one of his nurses have since died of the disease

those who treat and bury the bodies of the dead, which are even more contagious than living Ebola patients.

And this is where their cultural stuff over there ,as it relates to burial stuff has been huge in propgating the spread over there. I learned that when I first was following it cause it freaked me out!
 
  • #798
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/.../why-youre-not-going-to-get-ebola-in-the-u-s/

Darn they said it so briefly! !!!!! It took me 87 paragraphs! They did in two sentences!!

............mystifies infectious disease experts, who consider the viruses that cause Middle East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS) and bird flu much more contagious — and therefore more dangerous to the public. Transmission of Ebola requires direct contact with an infected person's blood, vomit or feces during the period that he or she is contagious, something that is extremely unlikely for anyone but health-care workers. The virus is not spread by coughing or sneezing. Nor do Americans bury their own dead family members or friends, as some residents of Sierra Leone, Liberia and Guinea must do with Ebola victims.
 
  • #799
You cant tell me all these Drs don't know or follow infectious protocol and yet are getting infected.

The conditions in the hospitals that these Dr's are working in are far from ideal.
As citizens of Liberia, Sierra Leone or Guinea—the three main Ebola-affected countries—many of these workers are not operating under the shelter of organizations like WHO and Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF). Many locals are also working in poorer clinics that lack ancillary personnel, or proper sanitation practices, isolation units or supplies, all of which are more readily available in clinics established by international agencies.

https://time.com/3453429/ebola-healthcare-workers-fatality-rate/
 
  • #800
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
95
Guests online
2,577
Total visitors
2,672

Forum statistics

Threads
632,237
Messages
18,623,786
Members
243,061
Latest member
Kvxbyte
Back
Top