Ebola outbreak - general thread #4

[CARIIS]

It seems like the perception is shock that "in America “ what happened in Dallas is amazing- or this notion that we offer the best heath care in the world. The only health care dynamic we rank as number one is in cost to every pt.

1. United Kingdom
   2. Switzerland
   3. Sweden
   4. Australia
   5. Germany & Netherlands (tied)
   7. New Zeal and & Norway (tied)
   9. France
   10. Canada
   11. United States

http://www.forbes.com/sites/danmunr...ked-dead-last-compared-to-10-other-countries/





In this ranking we came in 38 out of 190 nations, while being number one in cost.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ranking_of_health_systems_in_2000


. Among the 11 nations studied in this report—Australia, Canada, France, Germany, the Netherlands, New Zeal and, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, the United Kingdom, and the United States—the U.S. ranks last, as it did in the 2010, 2007, 2006, and 2004 .......

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror




Switching gears ....It seems like it might be IMO a good idea if they start (individuals willing) to began to store blood from the serving folks. It is a solid medical notion that being exposed to many silliness, the building of antibodies can be very effective. I wonder why it seems like they are doing it on a specific case basis.



Shifting again! "Entry screening in the UKA statement on the Department of Health's website is not recommended by the World Health Organization, and there are no plans to introduce entry screening for Ebola in the UK." BBC

 

[jjenny]

Hospital didn't violate cdc guidelines. Duncan's fever wasn't high enough the first time he went to the hospital to be considered for a possible Ebola case.
Guidelines might be wrong and need to be modified, but hospital didn't violate them as they are in their present state.

 

[atthelake]

Do you mean the part about being sent home with antibiotics? It was reported many places - here's one....

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/02/health/ebola-us/

Looked at your link...and it doesn't state what you are saying. Not only is it not mentioned, but it's not mentioned by a credible agency which I thought may be in the link posted. Closest to what you are stating says

Others are upset at the hospital where Duncan first sought care, which sent him home and raised the possibility he could infect others for at least two additional days.

^^^^ That to me is not credible information. Perhaps, as often is the case... the media changes the story on the same link to update?

ETA: Saw your ETA saying you didn't see either..ok.. :seeya:

 

[Redux]

Looked at your link...and it doesn't state what you are saying. Not only is it not mentioned, but it's not mentioned by a credible agency which I thought may be in the link posted. Closest to what you are stating says



^^^^ That to me is not credible information. Perhaps, as often is the case... the media changes the story on the same link to update?

ETA: Saw your ETA saying you didn't see either..ok.. :seeya:

I'm not sure what you are saying, but the information that Duncan was sent home with antibiotics and painkillers is mentioned in that link - it's about a third of the way down the page.

My ETA was just that the article doesn't say where the reporting agency got the information from (ie. who told them that information).

 

[CARIIS]

Re : The dialog regarding banning flights

I just cant comprehend the logistics involved in this. IMO it is nowhere as simple as just all flight from.....Aircraft no longer do a like point A to B. Endless dyanmics are involved in routing aircraft,

What is the segment prior to beginning the next segment
What are load factors on segments selected which influnced aircraft types uused throughout the day for each jetliner
Duty limit times of cabin crew would have to be refigured
Fuel resourcing would have to completly recalcuated - availblity of fuel in altered segment, fuel costs in different parts of world
the cost benefits /losses of having to refigure how much fuel should be loaded on each segment which is now all different
numbers of cabin crew needing to be availble all changes
Aircraft layouts would have to be readdressed based on demand and capacity
ETOPS (Extended range Twin Operations)-calcualtions would need to altered. It basically is certain aircraft are allowed to be over water for certain peroids of time, away from land masses for different flying times per segment. Many airliners have ETOPS certifacations that are different from model to model even within fleets (type of engines hanging from the winds, their reliabilty numbers,their maintence histories, there shut down rates during flight by engine type , engine manufactors
Maintance facilites would have be recalutated in order to asure fasciltes are available at different leg airports.
Internatinial cargo woudl have to be reconfigured
Overbooking dyanmics are changed as a bunch of routes are altered
Runway certifciations by aircraft would all have to adjusted
Weather issues all readdressed
ALtenative airports in case of situtions would have be reconfured
Expensives would have to agreed by each airport on runway charges per each lflight

In flight re stocking of aircraft on different segments ,

It would be huge undertaking, invoving a masive logistics mess

Baggage handling via connecting flights would all change

Airlines baggage capaciteswould have to started over from
scrathch

Govt officals regulations will have to be all renegation ed

Currency exchage rates all redone
duty free custom procedures altered
Connecting flights would have to be reworked
language differnces between pilot ATC rules altered
Spare part tracking clatered
Moving around mechanical folks from mantantaise stations through out the system altered
Flight mannuals would have to moved all around to end up in the area they now are needed
Language barriers all changed
different terrorist threats anazlzied

It IMO, would take years, cost billions , snarl up aviation acroos the world

IMO kinda undoable just my two cents!

Codesharing agreements would need revison
All of these dynamics impact the entire business of jet travel.
Fuel costs enter the mix



Airlines serving Guinwa

• Air France
• Ethiopian Airlines
• Continental Airlines
• Brussels Airlines
• US Airways

• Royal Air Maroc
• Air Canada
• Lufthansa
• United Airlines

http://flights.expedia.com/cheap-flights-to-guinea/


Carriers serving Leone

[TABLE="class: sm_table sm_table_sections3"]
[TR]
[TD]Air France flights
[/TD]
[TD]Brussels Airlines flights[/TD]
[TD]Royal Air Maroc flights[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Delta flights
[/TD]
[TD]United flights[/TD]
[TD]Arik Air flights[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
http://www.skyscanner.com/flights-to/sl/airlines-that-fly-to-sierra-leone.html

Carriers serving Liberia
[TABLE="class: sm_table sm_table_sections3"]
[TR]
[TD]Brussels Airlines flights[/TD]
[TD]Royal Air Maroc flights[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]United flights[/TD]
[TD]Arik Air flights[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
http://www.skyscanner.com/flights-to/lr/airlines-that-fly-to-liberia.html





--------------------------------
Picked one airport of the three areas at random

[TABLE="class: wikitable sortable jquery-tablesorter"]
[TR]
[TD]Guinea
[/TD]
[TD]Conakry International Airt
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]248,248 passengrs yearly


[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


Just from this one city the number there is 679 a day--

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_busiest_airports_in_Africa

 

[trigger]

Cariis, I cried watching that video. I cannot even imagine my grandbabies sitting their sick without their mommy or daddy. I cannot even continue writing my thoughts about it.

So sad

 

[Yoda]

Roughly 150 people fly out those countries each day bound for the U.S., according to the Washington Post. These individuals are screened before departure for elevated body temperature and other symptoms that could indicate Ebola infection. About five to 10 people are prevented from flying each week because of these measures, according to the World Health Organization.

http://www.ibtimes.com/west-africa-...s-over-us-bound-flights-are-overblown-1702532

 

[chipmunk]

Kenya is the only nation to my knowledge that exempted medical personnel from their flight restrictions. In my opinion that was well thought out to not do a blanket closure. They still screen everyone go comes and goes.

I respect Doctors Without Border's view a great deal as they were warning about ebola being out of control and asking for help several months ago before anyone was listening. They're on the ground and understand coordinating much of the work and doing a remarkable job. Here is what they say about air travel:

“Airlines have shut down many flights, and the unintended consequence has been to slow and hamper the relief effort, paradoxically increasing the risk of this epidemic spreading across countries in West Africa first, then potentially elsewhere," Doctors Without Borders director Christopher Stokes told the Guardian. "We have to stop Ebola at source and this means we have to be able to go there.”

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...mpering-ebola-aid-effort-west-africa-agencies

I'm concerned about air travel spreading the disease but we need to be careful that out choices don't backfire. I have mixed feelings about air travel but we need to make sure all the groups who are tackling ebola get the medical workers and supplies they need.

 

[Lyra500]

Train immune Ebola survivors to help medics, says UK nurse Will Pooley

Briton, who hopes to return to Sierra Leone, recalls tragic story of Douda Fullah, who lost family to virus but helps in hospital

The Guardian, Thursday 9 October 2014 16.18 EDT

The British nurse who survived Ebola has said he believes immune survivors should be trained to assist healthcare workers in the fight against the disease.

Will Pooley hopes to return to Sierra Leone after doctors advised him he would have antibodies to make him immune to the virus for months to come.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...la-survivors-help-medics-uk-nurse-will-pooley

Thank you for the information - the point I was trying to make (not very well! ) was that if this translated article was suggesting the dead man in Macedonia was Will Pooley, I would take that information with a huge lorry load of salt since nothing else out there in media land was confirming anything of the sort.

So I think that was either a translation blooper or a bit of speculation gone crazy.

 

[Lyra500]

Cariis, I cried watching that video. I cannot even imagine my grandbabies sitting their sick without their mommy or daddy. I cannot even continue writing my thoughts about it.

So sad

The individual stories that come out from West Africa are so terrible and really put our concerns over here in perspective.

There was a video on the Guardian blog which was linked to yesterday. It showed a 17 year old boy who had lost his father, his step mother (she was six months pregnant and miscarried and died) a two year old sister and other relatives. He was now alone with a 12 year old brother and younger sister to look after. He was utterly distraught and just did not know where to turn or what to do. They were likely to be thrown out of their house because they had no means of paying the rent.

 

[CARIIS]

officials say no evidence of Ebola in patient treated at Boone, NC, hospital - @wsoctv


: Dallas County deputy discharged from hospital after testing negative for Ebola - @dallasnews



Fire chief: Passenger who got sick on plane at Birmingham, Ala., airport not at risk of Ebola; other passengers released - @JonDRee

Health officials say there are 'high chances' that Briton who died in Macedonia did not have Ebola, - @BBCBreaking

urse in Queensland, Australia, tests negative for Ebola virus, health officials say - @SBSNews

exas health officials say Dallas County deputy has tested negative for Ebola virus - @dallasnews, @FOX4

French local official: Suspicion of Ebola cases at building near Paris has been lifted - @Reuters

[h=2]Los Angeles health officials say patient from Liberia does not meet criteria to be suspected of having Ebola - @LANow[/h]
[h=2]Suspected Ebola carrier tests negative for disease, Spanish health authorities report - @Reuters[/h]
[h=2]US doctor who volunteered in Sierra Leone released from National Institutes of Health in Washington, DC after testing negative for Ebola, hospital says - @NIH[/h]

[h=2]CDC says 48 people in Dallas being monitored for Ebola still remain symptom-free and show no signs of having the virus - @FOX4[/h]
[h=2]Hajj pilgrimage is free of Ebola, MERS, Saudi minister says - @AFP[/h]
[h=2]No signs of Ebola detected among the 48 people being monitored for contact with Dallas patient, says Texas health commissioner - from broadcast
[/h] Read more on msnbc.com



[h=2]Hospital: Former Ebola patient Rick Sacra tests negative for virus after being hospitalized in Massachusetts - statement[/h]

[h=2]Officials: Precautions being taken after sick child reportedly from West Africa is taken to Jackson Memorial Hospital in Miami; doctors say it's unlikely child has Ebola - @CBSMiami[/h]

 

[italianWSfan]

cariis linked video is not there anymore.. i warched part of it, came back to finish it but now its gone... anyone have another link please?
the sky news video "ebola on the front line"

 

[Sonya610]

I might not have written the HIV and Ebola comparison with clarity! My basic thoughts was that there was in beginning of HIV an attempt to focus on transmission of the virus as opposed to the host of other behavioral component of any viral spread. HIV initially resulted in all sorts of behaviors (masks, not touch,etc) that ultimately have no bearing on transmission, it was not related solely to the virus in and of itself.

This is not the same situation at ALL!

When HIV first started to appear in the early 80's doctors here had NO IDEA what it was.

I was in my late teens then and I CLEARLY recall one of the major news shows (60 minutes?) doing a segment on the newly emerging "Gay Plague". They actually speculated on a NATIONAL news program that experts suspected it could be caused by POPPERS used in gay night clubs! Gay club patrons often used poppers (small bottles of Amyl Nitrate, it was legal and the bottles were commercially packaged), and now this new disease was showing up in the gay population so it seemed "reasonable" to them that the two were linked! I was about 18 at the time and would go to after hours clubs in San Francisco (primarily gay clubs that got a lot of straight patrons after 2 AM), yes I occasionally used poppers too and thought how ridiculous it was that they were trying to blame poppers for a deadly plague, it just shows how utterly clueless the authorities were about AIDS at that time.

So no, this is NOT like the first outbreaks of AIDS. Scientists knew NOTHING AT ALL about HIV/AIDS when it first started breaking out! It took them quite a while to figure out that a virus was causing it, and much longer to figure out it originated in Africa, and after THAT folks realized Africa was heavily infected and had a high death toll from AIDS.

They have been tracking Ebola for the last 30 years, they have been TREATING Ebola in clinics for decades, they do know that it is spread by all bodily fluids and that it spreads very fast.

 

[SStarr33]

cariis linked video is not there anymore.. i warched part of it, came back to finish it but now its gone... anyone have another link please?
the sky news video "ebola on the front line"

Is this it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uR4QeBg8WGk&hd=0

 

[Lyra500]

cariis linked video is not there anymore.. i warched part of it, came back to finish it but now its gone... anyone have another link please?
the sky news video "ebola on the front line"

I am afraid I also get a Page not found message.

Have you checked on you tube? I am at work so cannot link to it, but there are quite a few interesting Ebola documentaries on there and hopefully this one has been added too.

I wonder why Sky took it down so soon.

 

[nomoresorrow]

This is not the same situation at ALL!

When HIV first started to appear in the early 80's doctors here had NO IDEA what it was.

I was in my late teens then and I CLEARLY recall one of the major news shows (60 minutes?) doing a segment on the newly emerging "Gay Plague". They actually speculated on a NATIONAL news program that experts suspected it could be caused by POPPERS used in gay night clubs! Gay club patrons often used poppers (small bottles of Amyl Nitrate, it was legal and the bottles were commercially packaged), and now this new disease was showing up in the gay population so it seemed "reasonable" to them that the two were linked!

So no, this is NOT like the first outbreaks of AIDS. Scientists knew NOTHING AT ALL about HIV/AIDS when it first started breaking out! It took them quite a while to figure out that a virus was causing it, and much longer to figure out it originated in Africa, and after THAT folks realized Africa was heavily infected and had a high death toll from AIDS.

They have been tracking Ebola for the last 30 years, they have been TREATING Ebola in clinics for decades, they do know that it is spread by all bodily fluids and that it spreads very fast.

Excellent points and, if I may add... the critical factor that they (i.e., biologists-researchers...) don't know -- as of yet -- is just how this virus will mutate (change) due to the significant increase in transmissions, compared to past outbreaks that typically died out fairly early on. This change (mutation), as I understand it, does not lessen the level/means of transmission, but rather, if it occurs, it can actually increase the transmission, for example, by mutating into an airborne virus. Not saying this is going to happen, however, the reality is that we just don't know because this outbreak is unprecedented.


JMO ~

 

[chipmunk]

I checked some of my local hospitals to see what they're doing to prepare. I'm seeing some good work, here's what University of Chicago Hospitals is doing, lots of practice, dry runs and enough medical treatment volunteers. Gives me some confidence:
http://www.usnews.com/news/politics...raining-focuses-on-astronaut-like-gear?page=2

 

[Sonya610]

Excellent points and, if I may add... the critical factor that they (i.e., biologists-researchers...) don't know -- as of yet -- is just how this virus will mutate (change) due to the significant increase in transmissions, compared to past outbreaks that typically died out fairly early on. This change (mutation), as I understand it, does not lessen the level/means of transmission, but rather, if it occurs, it can actually increase the transmission, for example, by mutating into an airborne virus. Not saying this is going to happen, however, the reality is that we just don't know because this outbreak is unprecedented.


JMO ~

And that also brings up the question of whether vaccines will even work! We have had flu vaccines for ages, yet there are so many different flu strains, and the strains change so so darn fast they give YEARLY shots to try and target the newest/most common strains that may hit, and despite all of the vaccinations the flu is a constant yearly problem.

One difference between HIV and Ebola which I found interesting; the reason they have NEVER been able to create a vaccine to prevent HIV is because NO HUMAN that has been infected has EVER fought off and gotten rid of the living HIV virus. The immune system simply can't get rid of it so no vaccine can help trigger the immune system and succeed.

The live Ebola virus on the other hand IS generally cleared from the body if the person survives, which means theoretically a vaccine could work (unless of course there are too many strains and they are hard to target).

 

[chipmunk]

Ok, I'm officially out...There's enough "could've , should've" to cover the globe. I posted this because I thought it was pertinent to show the, IMO, lack of professionalism displayed by officials at both the hospital and the govt level. While we're all just spouting opinion I'll give you mine: I'd bet $$$ this deputy did not think he had Ebola at all but was making a point about being expected to go into a hazardous condition without proper equipment and no follow up on monitoring his health. In essence, nobody gave a crap about him or his fellow deputies, and by completely skipping him in releasing the results, they further proved that. You are going to have a bunch of pissed off govt employees putting their butts on the line without proper training or equipment. The ambulance that transported Mr Duncan to the hospital was left in service for 48hours before it was taken offline and decontaminated! You had emts and the public with needless exposure. The airline employees are walking off the job in NY because they are not trained/equipped to handle cleaning planes that may contain Ebola. And by the way, the reason the deputies were in the apartment in the first place was to serve an official quarantine order because the family completely disregarded the initial verbal order to stay home. Mods, feel free to delete...

:goodpost: But I hope you stay with us, your insights are most valuable. :loveyou:

 

[Sonya610]

Also another side note regarding the speculation that ebola it will never be wiped out as long as the wild animal hosts still exist.

I strongly disagree. Stop eating those wild animals and it won't be a problem.

In many southern states armadillos are everywhere and slowly increasing their region. I frequently have armadillos in the yard and my dogs have killed a couple. You can't drive across Texas without seeing armadillo road kill on the highways.

A high percentage of U.S. Armadillos are natural hosts/carriers of LEPROSY!! Yes, it can be transmitted to people if people handle or EAT armadillos.

Now do we have Leper Colonies all over the south due to this problem???? NO! Do we even worry about the risk when we see an armadillo? NO! Why? Because people here are NOT eating the armadillos! We leave them be and we do NOT get sick.