Ebola outbreak - general thread #4

[SCHMAE]

I am guessing was home sick for the two days, it takes a couple of days to get the Ebola results back, right? Which means she had symptoms and got tested two days ago and the results came in recently.

I hope like heck she was home. For those who don't know, Greenville Avenue, ( which her block adjoins) is a major nightlife area for Dallas. Folks want to go out to ' lower Greenville ' to party because there are loads of bars within walking distance from each other and they go to eat because there are lots of unique little cafes and historic buildings to have lunch in, etc. Also this weekend was ' Texas/ OU ' weekend. It's a big money maker that brings in people from all over to the area for the big football game, which was yesterday. If she stayed home during her 2 days off, great. If she was out in town running errands, eating out, socializing or shopping, there is potential risk.

 

[trex]

OMG. He just said this isnt a virus that travels through the air so they don't need to treat it as such.... This is a BSL-4 pathogen, people! Why would scientists and researchers treat it as such if it wasn't HIGHLY contagious?? Also, if it isn't highly contagious and CDC admits they don't know for sure if it could be airborne, why are you downplaying it? I get perhaps they are trying to not incite mass hysteria through MSM, but honestly IMO I feel that mass hysteria needs to happen so that people will take this MUCH more seriously.

The fact remains they don't know 100% this isn't airborne contagious, and they don't know 100% that a patient isnt highly contagious BEFORE they exhibit symptoms - again, the common cold/flu is known to be more contagious *before* you are even showing symptoms, why would Ebola be any different if not worse? Arrrggghh :gaah:

 

[jjenny]

Breach of protocol

Or the protocol not adequate.

 

[popsicle]

All of them were either taking their equipment off incorrectly or the equipment was not sufficient. Otherwise they would not be expecting more cases imo.

 

[jjenny]

OMG. He just said this isnt a virus that travels through the air so they don't need to treat it as such.... This is a BSL-4 pathogen, people! Why would scientists and researchers treat it as such if it wasn't HIGHLY contagious?? Also, if it isn't highly contagious and CDC admits they don't know for sure if it could be airborne, why are you downplaying it? I get perhaps they are trying to not incite mass hysteria through MSM, but honestly IMO I feel that mass hysteria needs to happen so that people will take this MUCH more seriously.

The fact remains they don't know 100% this isn't airborne contagious, and they don't know 100% that a patient isnt highly contagious BEFORE they exhibit symptoms - again, the common cold/flu is known to be more contagious *before* you are even showing symptoms, why would Ebola be any different if not worse? Arrrggghh :gaah:

CDC does treat it as level 4 for researchers in CDC labs. But when it comes to health care professionals taking care of patients, all of the sudden it's not level 4 anymore.
What gives?

 

[jjenny]

All of them were either taking their equipment off incorrectly or the equipment was not sufficient. Otherwise they would not be expecting more cases imo.

They were not specifically trained for biosafety level 4 virus, are they?
Was somebody observing them taking off the equipment, and if not, why?

 

[faw720]

JMO, the CDC director appears extremely arrogant to me. It seems to me that he wants us to believe that CDC knows everything there is to know about Ebola & that if everyone would just follow CDC protocols the chain of infection could be broken. Nothing like blaming the new Ebola patient for breach of protocol.:tantrum:

 

[Sonya610]

Please could you clarify (not in the US) - did he say breaches in protective gear or protective protocols? (Thanks!)

I am wondering about the following potential causes:

• Inadvisable 'economising' resulting in sub-standard PPE
• Inadvisable 'economising' resulting in provision of insufficient PPE (i.e. lower level of protection)

I do think there has been "economizing" probably due more to ignorance than a lack of budget. A few threads back someone posted a link about a hospital manager that was ordering a dozen PPE suits for her staff (package rate of $179 per dozen).

High quality PPE suits used for serious pathogens are far more expensive, this may sound bad but I suspect the folks buying suits for many of these hospitals are doing exactly what "regular people" are doing, hitting up Amazon and reading a few reviews and buying something that seems well priced. I do NOT think they are actually doing hard core research regarding how effective those suits will be during high exposure.

 

[popsicle]

He continues to subliminally blame the nurse....and I am crying here. Our government, the CDC, may have to step up and supply equipment and training at every hospital in this country. It's costly, but it's happening peeps

Nurses all over have been saying this for weeks and others have been poo-pooing them.

 

[Lyra500]

Dallas hospital is just a regular hospital. Not specifically designed for Ebola patients. So they were not using biosafety level 4 precautions. Which CDC apparently thinks is perfectly adequate. But it would appear not.
Since this nurse got infected.

Thank you.

I suppose my confusion is that HC workers in West Africa (and grave diggers and teams collecting the bodies from houses) seem (for the most part) able to protect themselves and their facilities are way, way more basic than any hospital in the USA. So - what is going on?

If workers in Ebola treatment centres in Monrovia and Conakry (examples) housed in tents in fields, can manage to use a pretty good replica of level 4 protection (obviously they do not have independently filtered air supply in their suits but they do go for total cover-up with NO exposed skin at all), why would CDC think it was OK for hospitals in the US to be given the option of just providing workers with gowns, gloves and masks - and not even stipulate double gloving?

It isn't as if there has not been a significant death toll which one would have hoped would concentrate minds.

 

[popsicle]

They were not specifically trained for biosafety level 4 virus, are they?
Was somebody observing them taking off the equipment, and if not, why?

That's what I am saying.. were they trained correctly?

 

[jjenny]

Thank you.

I suppose my confusion is that HC workers in West Africa (and grave diggers and teams collecting the bodies from houses) seem (for the most part) able to protect themselves and their facilities are way, way more basic than any hospital in the USA. So - what is going on?

If workers in Ebola treatment centres in Monrovia and Conakry (examples) housed in tents in fields, can manage to use a pretty good replica of level 4 protection (obviously they do not have independently filtered air supply in their suits but they do go for total cover-up with NO exposed skin at all), why would CDC think it was OK for hospitals in the US to be given the option of just providing workers with gowns, gloves and masks - and not even stipulate double gloving?

It isn't as if there has not been a significant death toll which one would have hoped would concentrate minds.

But they are not really able to protect themselves either. A lot of infections are in doctors and nurses.

 

[Sigh Sister]

Nurses all over have been saying this for weeks and others have been poo-pooing them.

I have read quite a few comments on the web stating that if nurses feel they aren't prepared to care for an ebola patient, then they are incompetent. It really angers me.

 

[SStarr33]

I hope like heck she was home. For those who don't know, Greenville Avenue, ( which her block adjoins) is a major nightlife area for Dallas. Folks want to go out to ' lower Greenville ' to party because there are loads of bars within walking distance from each other and they go to eat because there are lots of unique little cafes and historic buildings to have lunch in, etc. Also this weekend was ' Texas/ OU ' weekend. It's a big money maker that brings in people from all over to the area for the big football game, which was yesterday. If she stayed home during her 2 days off, great. If she was out in town running errands, eating out, socializing or shopping, there is potential risk.

These neighbors don't look too happy:

https://twitter.com/dallaspiosana/status/521307956240203776

 

[faw720]

He continues to subliminally blame the nurse....and I am crying here. Our government, the CDC, may have to step up and supply equipment and training at every hospital in this country. It's costly, but it's happening peeps

If the CDC director knows so doggone much, he needs to go to Dallas & personally supervise the situation. What do you bet that doesn't happen.

 

[trex]

CDC does treat it as level 4 for researchers in CDC labs. But when it comes to health care professionals taking care of patients, all of the sudden it's not level 4 anymore.
What gives?

EXACTLY! Thank you jjenny!!

 

[jjenny]

That's what I am saying.. were they trained correctly?

Since the nurse got infected somehow, I would say not.
CDC was claiming that regular hospitals can handle Ebola.
It would appear NOT.
And they are expecting more infected health care professionals?
Yikes.

 

[shotgun09]

The facility I currently work at ( I am an RN ), gave us a " Mandatory Education" on EBOLA. (via the internet of the facility), which was a three page read with illustrated instructions. Took me 3 minutes to complete, and of coarse sign...( covers their buts). No additional hands on training or available q & a experience was offered. This is BS!

 

[okiedokietoo]

So the law of averages , or whatever it's called, would dictate that one or more of the original, 4 or 48 or 80 or 100 depending on who said it, close or possibly close contacts have tested positive for Ebola. IMO we are not being told the truth - for whatever reason. Most likely because the want to stop a panic. Thing is, I want the truth.

 

[trex]

Let's define Biosafety Level 4 (BSL-4) directly from the CDC doc - here (this doc includes very thorough definitions for each level of biosafety, a bit lengthy but worth understanding the differences): http://www.cdc.gov/biosafety/publications/bmbl5/bmbl5_sect_iv.pdf

Biosafety Level 4 is required for work with dangerous and exotic agents that pose
a high individual risk of aerosol-transmitted laboratory infections and life-threatening
disease that is frequently fatal, for which there are no vaccines or treatments, or a
related agent with unknown risk of transmission. Agents with a close or identical
antigenic relationship to agents requiring BSL-4 containment must be handled at
this level until sufficient data are obtained either to confirm continued work at this
level, or re-designate the level. Laboratory staff must have specific and thorough
training in handling extremely hazardous infectious agents. Laboratory staff must
understand the primary and secondary containment functions of standard and
special practices, containment equipment, and laboratory design characteristics.
All laboratory staff and supervisors must be competent in handling agents and
procedures requiring BSL-4 containment. The laboratory supervisor in
accordance with institutional policies controls access to the laboratory.

Agents with a close or identical antigenic relationship to agents requiring BSL-4 containment must be handled at
this level until sufficient data are obtained either to confirm continued work at this
level, or re-designate the level.

As far as I know they have not downgraded the level for Ebola... so. There you go.