Ebola outbreak - general thread #9

[Ray_of_hope]

Praying for her. She's in grave condition. She's not the only patient back after 'recovering'. There's so much we don't know. "Cafferkey is not the first medical professional to have problems after being diagnosed as Ebola-free." [video=cnn;us/2015/10/01/ebola-vaccine-breaking-ground-orig-ad.cnn]http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/09/europe/uk-ebola-nurse/index.html[/video]

 

[Hatfield]

Praying for her. She's in grave condition. She's not the only patient back after 'recovering'. There's so much we don't know. "Cafferkey is not the first medical professional to have problems after being diagnosed as Ebola-free." [video=cnn;us/2015/10/01/ebola-vaccine-breaking-ground-orig-ad.cnn]http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/09/europe/uk-ebola-nurse/index.html[/video]

Ebola is one of the scariest diseases I have ever learned about after reading "The Hot Zone" years ago.

Not just the number of deaths but the terrible way people die is what makes this disease so horrific to me. Cells breakdown and that is why people bleed from practically all orifices.

What is frightening too is I don't think scientists have explained why the disease seems to slow down and stop in areas. Isolation steps and the steps the countries take do help but I don't think that is what makes these outbreaks stop. It seems the disease has a tendency to stop on its own after a huge outbreak.

If you think about it and realize that there is no way these countries are able to totally isolate all patients and contact with patients then we realize that the disease itself seems to slow down and stop. We know this because a lot of patients never even go to the isolation areas. A lot of people are afraid to bring loved ones to those places.

We are lucky it does that. I wonder if someday it wont slow down and stop and take off througout the world. That is what worries me the most.

 

[jjenny]

Ebola seem to become highly infectious only when patient is close to death or after death. Mr. Duncan who came to Dallas didn't infect any of the people he was in the apartment with. New York doctor who got Ebola didn't infect anyone despite going out right before getting symptoms. His girlfriend didn't get sick either, despite sharing an apartment. Which presumably is why these outbreaks stop eventually. People in those areas of Africa have some customs such as washing dead bodies that contribute to spreading Ebola. Once they stop doing that it's easier to control these outbreaks.

 

[formerjerseygirl]

What on earth could be "a late complication" this far out? Scary!

 

[jjenny]

What on earth could be "a late complication" this far out? Scary!

Ebola can cause a lot of complications since it affects numerous organs. Also, she still has the virus in her system (which is why they isolated her). Her virus was apparently never completely gone and reactivated. Apparently it's pretty unusual for a virus to reactivate but in her it did.

"A nurse who contracted the Ebola virus last year in Sierra Leone is now in serious condition in a London hospital after the Ebola virus re-activated, just 10 days after meeting with Prime Minister David Cameron's wife, Samantha."


Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/life/...ition-is-serious/article/446191#ixzz3oD1XN5iu
http://www.digitaljournal.com/life/...-uk-nurse-condition-is-serious/article/446191

 

[Elley Mae]

The 39-year-old had gone to NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde’s GP out-of-hours service at the Victoria Hospital, on Glasgow’s south side, on Monday night.

Despite the doctor knowing her full medical history and how she had only narrowly survived after contracting Ebola in December, she was sent home.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/family-condemns-hospital-failures-after-6612236

But within 48 hours, she was rushed by ambulance to the Queen Elizabeth *University Hospital in Glasgow before being sent to London on a military aircraft.

Before her transfer, Pauline’s family say she told them: “I’ve been let down.”

 

[jjenny]

Pretty scary that the virus can reactivate like that. Since it's the same virus, then I think it's likely she become infectious again (I don't understand why they would even say they think virus is not infectious this time around, since it's the same virus). Sounds to me like the virus was dormant then started to replicate again since they can again detect it in her blood.
Yikes.

 

[e-sherlockholmes]

Pretty scary that the virus can reactivate like that. Since it's the same virus, then I think it's likely she become infectious again (I don't understand why they would even say they think virus is not infectious this time around, since it's the same virus). Sounds to me like the virus was dormant then started to replicate again since they can again detect it in her blood.
Yikes.

I think we are just a bunch of bungling idiots fooling ourselves as to how good we are at handling this stuff. Fact is we are woefully inadequate.

They discovered the presence of the virus in people's eyes and semen, well after they apparently 'recovered'. So they are not really recovered then are they? They might show no symptoms and are not affected by the virus, but technically that virus can pass onto other people who do not have this developed immunity? e.g. a recovered survivor having sex with someone where their semen infects someone new (from say a small skin tear to allow it into the blood stream)?

They will tell you the "odds" of infecting others are low. Just like how you can kiss someone with HIV and not get infected yourself. But are we going to risk things on "odds"? I suppose there is no other option short of keeping Ebola patients locked in isolation indefinitely. But they persist as a source of the virus here.

Do we even know enough about this disease well enough that people ever becomes 'cured' i.e. completely rid of the virus? Because things like Herpes are never gone. HIV (for non-progressors) is never gone.

It just seems like medical staff wait a few days, no symptoms, then they send you back home. We all think we're so smart and criticize the African response efforts, yet our western medical staff infected themselves also, presumably following modern hospital protocols. My conclusion is we really arn't that smart then.

 

[formerjerseygirl]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-34509572

contacts being watched

 

[jjenny]

Her condition deteriorated. She is now in critical condition. So the virus can lie dormant in some organs of the body, then it started to replicate again and made her very ill. Yikes.

 

[formerjerseygirl]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/health/scots-ebola-nurse-pauline-cafferkeys-6633056

 

[e-sherlockholmes]

Her condition deteriorated. She is now in critical condition. So the virus can lie dormant in some organs of the body, then it started to replicate again and made her very ill. Yikes.

That's what's scary to me.

I was afraid of that when I first read that they detected the virus in people's semen well after they had allegedly 'recovered'. This to me doesn't sound like a recovery at all. Its like Herpes. There is no cure or 'recovery'. Only minimizing or masking symptoms to the point of being asymptomatic. But this isn't good enough in the ideal world. But Herpes you can handle. This ebola business is life and death.

 

[jjenny]

Her case seems to be very rare. Vast majority of survivors don't seem to relapse like she did.

"He said: 'We haven't seen it return after this long. It is concerning. There are lots of unknowns at this stage. It is very difficult to tell and I don't want to predict what the outcome may be.'"

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2015-10-14/return-of-ebola-in-pauline-cafferkey-concerning/

 

[jjenny]

Her case is actually first known case of its kind. Not that something like this couldn't have gone unnoticed in Africa. But up till now scientist were not aware of a possibility this could even happen.

"The announcement shocked medical experts. While it is recognised that the virus can linger in parts of the body after a patient has recovered, it has never before been known to trigger potentially lethal disease months after the initial illness."
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/14/ebola-nurse-pauline-cafferkey-critically-ill

 

[Elley Mae]

That's what's scary to me.

I was afraid of that when I first read that they detected the virus in people's semen well after they had allegedly 'recovered'. This to me doesn't sound like a recovery at all. Its like Herpes. There is no cure or 'recovery'. Only minimizing or masking symptoms to the point of being asymptomatic. But this isn't good enough in the ideal world. But Herpes you can handle. This ebola business is life and death.

bbm

First known case of sexually transmitted Ebola reported

https://www.sciencenews.org/blog/science-ticker/first-known-case-sexually-transmitted-ebola-reported

A Liberian woman contracted Ebola in March by having sex with a survivor of the viral disease, researchers report. Using studies of both people’s viral genomes and of the people’s contacts with any other possible sources of the virus, the researchers conclude that the woman’s disease represents the first known case of sexual transmission of Ebola.

 

[trigger]

UN: 2 New Ebola Cases in Guinea Show Virus Still Spreading

The two new patients were not previously identified contacts being tracked by health authorities, suggesting that officials are still unable to monitor everyone exposed to Ebola. WHO spokeswoman Dr. Margaret Harris said Friday the U.N. health agency had expected to see more cases despite the recent lull in the epidemic. She added the cases were in areas where scientists knew Ebola was spreading.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/ebola-cases-guinea-show-virus-spreading-34521374

 

[jjenny]

bbm

First known case of sexually transmitted Ebola reported

https://www.sciencenews.org/blog/science-ticker/first-known-case-sexually-transmitted-ebola-reported



A Liberian woman contracted Ebola in March by having sex with a survivor of the viral disease, researchers report. Using studies of both people’s viral genomes and of the people’s contacts with any other possible sources of the virus, the researchers conclude that the woman’s disease represents the first known case of sexual transmission of Ebola.

She actually died from it. Recently another study came out that even at 9 months virus was detectable in semen in some men. So when they release Ebola survivors and claim they are no longer infectious because Ebola is not detected in the blood, it isn't exactly true. Sounds like this virus survives in some parts of the body a lot longer than they originally said.
And in some cases like Pauline it can start replicating again and make the patient very ill again.

 

[e-sherlockholmes]

She actually died from it. Recently another study came out that even at 9 months virus was detectable in semen in some men. So when they release Ebola survivors and claim they are no longer infectious because Ebola is not detected in the blood, it isn't exactly true. Sounds like this virus survives in some parts of the body a lot longer than they originally said.
And in some cases like Pauline it can start replicating again and make the patient very ill again.

Scary isn't it?

Lets think about the political ramifications for a minute. Suppose the science ultimately points to Ebola survivors as being in a permanent state of a non-progressive carrier of the virus. Similar to those with Herpes or those with HIV who are non-progressors. They have the virus in their body for life, but as long as their immune system is up to snuff, their body can overcome the virus and remain asymptomatic and thus non-infectious to others.

How do you deal with this? With Herpes, its not a life and death situation. With HIV, the rate of fatality isn't as dramatic, symptoms take a longer time to kill the patient and are largely controllable with drugs. But what about the highly deadly ebola? Create a lepers colony to keep everyone? Accept that this is now the new paradigm we lived in, and that we overcame Herpes and HIV in the general population and we can do so for Ebola carriers too?

This is scary to me. I hope the science can prove once and for all, whether survivors can be completely rid of the virus. But sometimes they don't even know. THey just do PCR to test for viral load. But there is a threshold detection level. If the viral concentrations in the serum or other tissues or fluids are too low, then the tests will say they are free of the virus. However, if they mechanistically persist in the body, then all it takes is for these survivors to have a momentary drop in immune response, such as being on other drugs or from old age, and for ebola to reemerge again? Scary.

 

[jjenny]

Yea, if I had Ebola and recovered, I certainly wouldn't want anybody to know about it. It's not going to help survivors, as survivors could be viewed suspiciously because what if they relapse? I wonder just how common these relapses are. Up till recently, all of the cases were in Africa, so if some survivor died many months later from Ebola, nobody would know. By the way, we haven't overcome either Herpes or HIV. Most of the population are carriers of Herpes virus.

 

[e-sherlockholmes]

Yea, if I had Ebola and recovered, I certainly wouldn't want anybody to know about it. It's not going to help survivors, as survivors could be viewed suspiciously because what if they relapse? I wonder just how common these relapses are. Up till recently, all of the cases were in Africa, so if some survivor died many months later from Ebola, nobody would know. By the way, we haven't overcome either Herpes or HIV. Most of the population are carriers of Herpes virus.

Yeah, there certainly could be a 'shame' element to it, which is alienating and ideally we wouldn't want that. But back in the old days, where they were less PC, they just sent lepers to lepers colonies and the mentally insane into insane asylums. I don't think we will do that in our current day and age where we segregate people. So, I think it will either be brushed under the rug and be accepted that this is the new paradigm we live in when infected grows too substantially, or the science not explained to the public to keep the public in the dark.

I agree we didn't overcome HIV or herpes. What I meant was, it is largely manageable. There are drugs that help and death isn't immediate in either cases. We also do not isolate and segregate people with herpes or HIV into their own community away from the general population. We let them coexist with the rest of the population with or without HIV/herpes. This is what I mean. Will we do the same with Ebola 'non-progressors' if there is such a thing? Will we lock them up or let them co-exist and potentially continue to infect people and accept that as a new paradigm of reality. We did that for HIV and Herpes. They live among everybody. Will society do that for Ebola survivors?