Ebola outbreak - general thread #9

[nrdsb4]

No, she's claiming she was told he had Ebola but she didn't have a choice in caring for him and that she had no training to do so. She's blaming the hospital. They should check medical records for how many other patients died while in her care.

JMO

I would say that with the exception of the nurses who were trained to work at the four designated specialty units, there was not a nurse in the US who was actually trained to work with ebola patients.

It's easy to criticize everyone, nurses included here, after the fact. But remember: we had NEVER had a patient walk into a hospital with ebola before. It was NOT part of the national medical consciousness at that time, even as a new outbreak had been occurring in West Africa. Ebola has been around for decades, and I know that I had never before been trained in ebola care.

In retrospect, one may ask why every nurse in the country was not an expert in caring for ebola patients, but in reality, it wasn't a priority in terms of what the average nurse or even critical care nurse was facing day in and day out at that time.

I think THS needs to give both infected nurses a nice settlement just because. They were the first victims of this disease and because of them all nurses are now a little safer. It just seems like the right thing to do.

 

[MyBelle]

When Nina began caring for Mr. Duncan, his test results were not in, but everyone knew they were dealing with a potential ebola patient.

Her lawsuit admits she was told of the Ebola.

 

[nrdsb4]

All nurses are supposed to be trained in CDC protocols and to follow them. Claiming she was given no choice and that she was told she could care for Duncan remotely is not believable.

No settlement will come her way. What she might get is a wrongful death lawsuit from Duncan's family.

JMO

The CDC protocols in place at the time actually did not adequately protect the HCW from ebola. They have since been modified.

I would be willing to wager still that there were few to no nurses in the US who would have felt competent in caring for an ebola patient at that time. One could argue that hospitals should have had them ready, but this is pretty specialized care unlike any other diseases that I've been familiar with. The PPE equipment alone (donning and removing) requires techniques that I know I'd never been taught. On a nursing board I frequent, instructional videos were critiqued by other nurses and none of the ones examined were free from error. When ebola showed up in Dallas, some nurses from the special unit at Emory flew in to instruct the ICU staff. This stuff just wasn't commonly taught in US hospitals.

As to whether or not Nina was given a choice, I can't address that. I could have sworn I had read that she said herself that she really didn't even consider refusing.

 

[jjenny]

My guess is that they will fight her tooth and nail and say she failed to follow proper protocol in protecting herself.

JMO

They settled with Mr. Duncan's family. They could have gone to court. TX has a limit on how much one could get for a wrongful death lawsuit. So they wouldn't risk much if they went to court.
They could potentially settle with her to make it go away.

 

[jjenny]

The CDC protocols in place at the time actually did not adequately protect the HCW from ebola. They have since been modified.

I would be willing to wager still that there were few to no nurses in the US who would have felt competent in caring for an ebola patient at that time. One could argue that hospitals should have had them ready, but this is pretty specialized care unlike any other diseases that I've been familiar with. The PPE equipment alone (donning and removing) requires techniques that I know I'd never been taught. On a nursing board I frequent, instructional videos were critiqued by other nurses and none of the ones examined were free from error. When ebola showed up in Dallas, some nurses from the special unit at Emory flew in to instruct the ICU staff. This stuff just wasn't commonly taught in US hospitals.

As to whether or not Nina was given a choice, I can't address that. I could have sworn I had read that she said herself that she really didn't even consider refusing.

Exactly. CDC later changed the protocol and admitted they were using some sort of "field" standards (basically, PPE one would use in Africa while in the field instead of state of the art hospital).
But what she was using seems to be in accordance with the original CDC standards, which didn't require all skin to be covered.

 

[nrdsb4]

They settled with Mr. Duncan's family. They could have gone to court. TX has a limit on how much one could get for a wrongful death lawsuit. So they wouldn't risk much if they went to court.
They could potentially settle with her to make it go away.

I think they will settle. It just wouldn't be good PR to try to discredit Nina Pham. They are trying to move on and re-establish good will with the community, and I don't think fighting this would serve those aims. JMO.

 

[jjenny]

I was able to read the first paragraph and it did read unlike any other lawsuit I have ever read.

Maybe she should have written a book.
From what has been reported, she hasn't worked as a nurse since, yet hospital is paying her salary.

 

[nrdsb4]

Maybe she should have written a book.
From what has been reported, she hasn't worked as a nurse since, yet hospital is paying her salary.

To be honest, I'll be surprised if she doesn't end up writing one. I know I'd be interested in reading it.

 

[MyBelle]

They settled with Mr. Duncan's family. They could have gone to court. TX has a limit on how much one could get for a wrongful death lawsuit. So they wouldn't risk much if they went to court.
They could potentially settle with her to make it go away.

They won't settle with her. I think she failed to follow protocol. Her lawsuit makes her sound like a total incompetent.

They should have settled with Mr. Duncan's family. Right thing to do. But there is no way they are going to settle with a nurse who contracted a virus while working in a hospital. Medical staff do assume some risk when they work in a hospital.

JMO

 

[sloane7777]

It reads like a novel and is so totally over-the-top it is ridiculous so I stopped reading it. She claims she had no choice in taking care of Duncan and when he was admitted as her one and only patient in the ICU unit, she was told he had Ebola but could care for him "remotely." She also claims that she had absolutely no training and blames the hospital. She makes herself sound totally incompetent and after reading what I did, I can understand why Duncan died.

JMO

I have been there, I was not treated well at all ........ I can totally understand how Mr. Duncan died

 

[MyBelle]

Maybe she should have written a book.
From what has been reported, she hasn't worked as a nurse since, yet hospital is paying her salary.

Of course she'll write a book. She's already making the media rounds accusing the hospital of using her as a PR pawn when, in fact, she's doing it herself. oh, the irony....

Charla Aldous, Pham's attorney told the paper the hospital "used Nina as a PR pawn."


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/01/nina-pham-hospital_n_6779476.html

 

[CarmelEyesD]

SLeone vice president in Ebola quarantine asks country to pray

Freetown (AFP) - Sierra Leone's Vice President Sam Sumana, who put himself into quarantine after one of his bodyguards died from Ebola, asked fellow-citizens on Sunday to "have me in your prayers."

In a message relayed by the country's sole TV station, he also appealed to all those in contact with his late bodyguard "to report to health authorities for your status to be checked."

http://news.yahoo.com/sleone-vice-president-ebola-quarantine-asks-country-pray-181408784.html

 

[liljim]

Of course she'll write a book. She's already making the media rounds accusing the hospital of using her as a PR pawn when, in fact, she's doing it herself. oh, the irony....

Charla Aldous, Pham's attorney told the paper the hospital "used Nina as a PR pawn."


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/01/nina-pham-hospital_n_6779476.html

I'm not aware of any way to use oneself as a pawn... The difference here is using another persons story or image specifically against their request, and pleading one's own case.

It is not a subtle difference so I'm surprised people seem to be missing it. Her claim is that the hospital publicized her story/identity against her request, that in no way precludes her from later going on the offensive publicly with her own case against the hospital. There is no comparison to be drawn there as they are two totally unrelated issues.

 

[CarmelEyesD]

Miami Beach Doctor Who Treated Ebola Patients Remains in Quarantine

A Miami Beach doctor who treated Ebola patients in west Africa remains under quarantine.

Dr. Michael Drusano volunteered to treat up to 30 Ebola patients a day in Sierra Leone.
"The days were long and physically demanding," he told NBC 6.

Drusano lives behind the door of his Miami Beach condo and was interviewed by Skype. He's still in the middle of his 21-day home quarantine.
"I can have visitors but they have to stay about four feet away from me at all times, no contact whatsoever has been allowed so that has also been somewhat difficult," Drusano said.

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/...-294768491.html?_osource=SocialFlowFB_MIBrand

 

[nrdsb4]

If the lawsuit goes forward, I will especially be interested in the HIPAA issues. I'm pretty sure it was Nina's family who initially identified her, NOT the hospital, and they are the ones who provided a photo of her. But beyond that, did the hospital in fact violate her privacy, and if so, to what degree was she harmed? There are also penalties which the hospital would have to pay (independent of a lawsuit) for HIPAA violations. I specifically remember that little video clip, which Nina says was filmed and distributed without her permission. That's a pretty big violation.

I wonder if at some point it was considered in the interest of public safety to identify these patients (Nina was not the only one identified; in fact, I think there was only one of all the patients in the US who was NOT identified). I don't know if HIPAA can legally be suspended on those grounds.

All in all, potentially some important precedents could be set with the outcome of this lawsuit.

 

[MyBelle]

I'm not aware of any way to use oneself as a pawn... The difference here is using another persons story or image specifically against their request, and pleading one's own case.

It is not a subtle difference so I'm surprised people seem to be missing it. Her claim is that the hospital publicized her story/identity against her request, that in no way precludes her from later going on the offensive publicly with her own case against the hospital. There is no comparison to be drawn there as they are two totally unrelated issues.

I seriously doubt the hospital forced Pham to meet with President Obama.

 

[liljim]

I seriously doubt the hospital forced Pham to meet with President Obama.

I have no idea what that means as a response to what I said, maybe you can explain.

 

[MyBelle]

I have no idea what that means as a response to what I said, maybe you can explain.

I responded to your comment: "Her claim is that the hospital publicized her story/identity against her request,"

It's purely bogus. The hospital released her own statements to the media. She's featured herself. She enjoyed the attention. And her claim that she wasn't properly trained is contradicted by someone she trained.



"Knowing Nina, she's one of the most meticulous, thorough, effective nurses," Joseph told CNN affiliate KTVT. "She taught me infection control and hand hygiene and protocol. I learned so much of that from her."

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/14/health/ebola-who-is-nina-pham/

 

[jjenny]

How exactly could she have taught anyone infection control?

 

[liljim]

I responded to your comment: "Her claim is that the hospital publicized her story/identity against her request,"

It's purely bogus. The hospital released her own statements to the media. She's featured herself. She enjoyed the attention. And her claim that she wasn't properly trained is contradicted by someone she trained.



"Knowing Nina, she's one of the most meticulous, thorough, effective nurses," Joseph told CNN affiliate KTVT. "She taught me infection control and hand hygiene and protocol. I learned so much of that from her."

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/14/health/ebola-who-is-nina-pham/

oh you disagree with whether or not the hospital did anything wrong in breaching hr confidentiality etc, yeah i got that from your first post.

i just didnt see how that related to whether or not they "forced her" to meet with obama, and what any of that had to do with the idea that she can both be entitled to her privacy and confidentiality in one regard and then be public and promote her feelings/agenda in another regard.