Estate of Rebecca Zahau et al v. Shacknai et al

[bourne]

Odd, Max had pancakes for breakfast that morning. And there was never a COS investigation into his accident.

What's COS?

 

[bourne]

Cyberstalking by the defendants (Dina, Nina, etc.) needs to be addressed in the WDS so I am reposting the following here.

Agreed, if they are indeed bystanders. People involved in the case at hand however, well, that is a different story.

This is a great article that highlights cyber stalking and cyber intimidation behaviors, it also cites many actual cases.

http://www.cybercrimejournal.com/pittaroijccvol1is2.htm

ALWAYS MOO

Wasn't it published at one time that Rebecca's credit cards were stolen and used? In other words, someone pretended to be Rebecca and used her credit card to impersonate her and steal her identity (Identity theft). That's also considered a cyberstalking technique.

Also, the perp(s) using Rebecca's computer and laptop at the Spreckels mansion the Tuesday afternoon right before Rebecca was then murdered that night constitutes continual VINDICTIVE CYBERSTALKING. The fact that they did numerous searches by accessing and using Rebecca's electronics is another cyberstalking tactic.

Moreover, in the same article it's stated that persistent cyberstalking has led to murders of victims committed by the cyberstalkers. I believe that is what happened in the case with Rebecca by her cyberstalkers-turned-murderers, <modsnip>
From the article you linked:

"This group was more likely to employ a number of spiteful tactics that were intended to continuously harass victims through excessive spamming, email bombing, and identity theft (McFarlane & Bocij 2005)."

"Vindictive Cyber stalkers were the only group of the four to purposely use Trojans to access the victim&#8217;s computer and deliberately infect the computer with a destructive virus (McFarlane & Bocij 2005). The group&#8217;s computer skills and proficiency ranged from medium to high and there was some indication that mental illness was present based on the bizarre, disturbing content that was often transmitted to victims (McFarlane & Bocij 2005).

"This writer would place Liam Youens in this particular category based on Youens&#8217; bizarre behaviors and obsession with stalking and eventually murdering Amy Lynn Boyer."

 

[bourne]

Cyberstalking by the defendants (Dina, Nina, etc.) needs to be addressed in the WDS so I am reposting the following here.



Wasn't it published at one time that Rebecca's credit cards were stolen and used? In other words, someone pretended to be Rebecca and used her credit card to impersonate her and steal her identity (Identity theft). That's also considered a cyberstalking technique.

Also, the perp(s) using Rebecca's computer and laptop at the Spreckels mansion the Tuesday afternoon right before Rebecca was then murdered that night constitutes continual VINDICTIVE CYBERSTALKING. The fact that they did numerous searches by accessing and using Rebecca's electronics is another cyberstalking tactic.

Moreover, in the same article it's stated that persistent cyberstalking has led to murders of victims committed by the cyberstalkers. I believe that is what happened in the case with Rebecca by her cyberstalkers-turned-murderers, namely Dina and Nina.

From the article you linked:

"This group was more likely to employ a number of spiteful tactics that were intended to continuously harass victims through excessive spamming, email bombing, and identity theft (McFarlane & Bocij 2005)."

"Vindictive Cyber stalkers were the only group of the four to purposely use Trojans to access the victim’s computer and deliberately infect the computer with a destructive virus (McFarlane & Bocij 2005). The group’s computer skills and proficiency ranged from medium to high and there was some indication that mental illness was present based on the bizarre, disturbing content that was often transmitted to victims (McFarlane & Bocij 2005).

"This writer would place Liam Youens in this particular category based on Youens’ bizarre behaviors and obsession with stalking and eventually murdering Amy Lynn Boyer."

Just wanted to add a link to my post re: Rebecca's credit card being stolen:

"Someone stole Rebecca’s credit card, the charges are to the Apple Ipod store and a dating site called Zoomsk."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/shenego...y-mystery-murder-in-spreckels-mansion-case/2/

 

[*Lash*]

Just wanted to add a link to my post re: Rebecca's credit card being stolen:

"Someone stole Rebecca&#8217;s credit card, the charges are to the Apple Ipod store and a dating site called Zoomsk."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/shenego...y-mystery-murder-in-spreckels-mansion-case/2/

I would never have put the stolen credit card together with the stalking and harassing had you not brought it up. Interesting.

The charges to the dating website could fit harassment. I wonder what name the account was registered under? If there was anything mocking Rebecca in the account? However, the Apple charges don't quite fit. I am aware of many people who have had their credit card numbers stolen and it seems the first purchase is always at an Apple store in Europe. Seems to be a common theme with stolen card numbers.

 

[bourne]

I would never have put the stolen credit card together with the stalking and harassing had you not brought it up. Interesting.

The charges to the dating website could fit harassment. I wonder what name the account was registered under? If there was anything mocking Rebecca in the account? However, the Apple charges don't quite fit. I am aware of many people who have had their credit card numbers stolen and it seems the first purchase is always at an Apple store in Europe. Seems to be a common theme with stolen card numbers.

We do know that Adam, for one, had an iPhone. And most people I know own iPhones, iPods, iPads, iMacs, iTunes, etc. so it would not be surprising that Rebecca's cyberstalker(s) stole her credit card to purchase Apple products.

I think if a thorough investigation is done on what was (were) purchased through Rebecca's stolen credit card(s), and since all Apple stores have security surveillance tapes (which I believe they do not rewrite over those tapes since they use digital storage online which is generally unlimited), the purchased merchandise and the videotapes would show the thieves who stole and/or used Rebecca's credit card.

As to registering with the dating website Zoomsk, the investigators should obtain the personal profile/ad(s) made on Rebecca's credit card and be able to extract where the originating IP addresses are located as well as any incriminating or cyberstalkerish evidence they left on the profile. This would lead the investigators directly to Rebecca's cyberstalkers -- assuming they registered from their own homes, workplaces, or schools (hopefully)

 

[TorisMom003]

We do know that Adam, for one, had an iPhone. And most people I know own iPhones, iPods, iPads, iMacs, iTunes, etc. so it would not be surprising that Rebecca's cyberstalker(s) stole her credit card to purchase Apple products.

I think if a thorough investigation is done on what was (were) purchased through Rebecca's stolen credit card(s), and since all Apple stores have security surveillance tapes (which I believe they do not rewrite over those tapes since they use digital storage online which is generally unlimited), the purchased merchandise and the videotapes would show the thieves who stole and/or used Rebecca's credit card.

As to registering with the dating website Zoomsk, the investigators should obtain the personal profile/ad(s) made on Rebecca's credit card and be able to extract where the originating IP addresses are located as well as any incriminating or cyberstalkerish evidence they left on the profile. This would lead the investigators directly to Rebecca's cyberstalkers -- assuming they registered from their own homes, workplaces, or schools (hopefully)

I doubt that whoever stole Rebecca's credit card actually walked into an Apple store and used it. More than likely they simply bought whatever they wanted on line and used the credit card to pay for it. It is extremely easy to purchase pretty much anything you want without ever having to leave the comfort of your own home.

 

[bourne]

I doubt that whoever stole Rebecca's credit card actually walked into an Apple store and used it. More than likely they simply bought whatever they wanted on line and used the credit card to pay for it. It is extremely easy to purchase pretty much anything you want without ever having to leave the comfort of your own home.

Hey, you never know, and we can hope! Criminals do make mistakes, and more often than not, they are dumb, and that's usually how they get caught.

Also, if the perps did purchase items online, the online store would have their IP addies because they save identifying info such as cookies. So that's another way to find out who the perps are!

 

[TorisMom003]

Hey, you never know, and we can hope!

True, we can hope. But I really doubt they were that stupid. Then again, one never knows.

Even if they didn't physically walk into a store they should still be able to tell who it was that used her credit card. To me it sounds like a very childish thing to do.

 

[bourne]

True, we can hope. But I really doubt they were that stupid. Then again, one never knows.

Even if they didn't physically walk into a store they should still be able to tell who it was that used her credit card. To me it sounds like a very childish thing to do.

LOL. We're crossing paths! I added to my post while you were replying.

Let's just keep our fingers crossed that the perps left some type of cookie-crumb trail...

 

[Betty P]

Unfortunately for Max and his parents, his death isn't a "fairytale." According to statements by RZ and her sister made to police and noted in the police reports, Dina wasn't present at the time of Max's fall. At the time of his death, a child abuse investigation had been initiated by his physicians because the statements about the circumstances surrounding his fall were suspicious.

I do know that if a 6-year-old has an "altercation" with a fit adult--no matter if it was about breakfast cereal or anything else--the child usually doesn't "win" and Max certainly did not win.

JMO

A child abuse investigation was not initiated by MS's physicians. They had discussed the possibility, but further tests that revealed his injuries were the result of the accidental fall. San Diego's childrens services were not contacted.

 

[K_Z]

A child abuse investigation was not initiated by MS's physicians. They had discussed the possibility, but further tests that revealed his injuries were the result of the accidental fall. San Diego's childrens services were not contacted.

IIRC, social worker Jessica Robershaw was going to file a request for investigation, but I don't think we know for sure if this was ever completed?It could be that county social workers assisted LE in their investigation, but that would surely be closed by now on the part of the county (see following remarks).

Dina, in her Coronado council remarks revealed that there were instructions not to notify her about this. CPS investigates the totality of a child's family living environment, and I strongly believe that Dina would have been questioned and visited in her home as part of any CPS investigation, since Max lived between 2 homes and 2 parents. CPS doesn't just look for "abuse"-- they also look at situations where neglect may lead to an unsafe environment. They look at EVERYONE in the households, and whomever else has access to a child.

Periodically, someone posts that they think the county CPS investigation of Max’s death is “ongoing.” I have always thought this was wildly unrealistic.

I asked 2 social workers whether that would be possible. I briefly outlined the case, and told them the official LE finding was “accidental death” more than 2 years ago. They both said that there would be no authority under which a county social services office or individual social services worker could pursue an ongoing investigation. The case is closed, and the subject is deceased, with a finding of “accident”. They both said the LE investigation and closure of the case was definitive—CPS assists LE. Social work’s focus is child safety, family court reports for action, and reunification or removal of the child from the environment. They report criminal activity to LE. If the case is closed by LE, and the subject deceased, there is nothing more for CPS to do. Any request would have been closed out in this case probably before the case was officially announced that it was ruled an accident, according to them. At the point that the LE investigation was complete.

Here is a very good article describing the relationship between LE and CPS, from the Department of Health and Human Services:

https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/usermanuals/law/lawc.cfm

Both of the SW's I spoke with also said that if a social worker took it upon themselves to do an “independent investigation” in a case closed for 2 years, they could be fired, and reported to the licensing board. They said a renegade social worker could also face potential civil suits, or even stalking charges, for doing something like that. Using their official position to gain access to private information in closed records to do their own investigation could lead to very severe penalties for a social worker.

They also pointed out that county social workers have sometimes a hundred or more cases assigned to them, and would have no official work time to devote to a “closed” case.

Given all this, I think it is extremely unlikely that any county social workers are "still" investigating Max's death. JMO, Mooo....etc.

 

[Sharyne]

From 10:00 News, San Diego:

In response to the suit, Dina Shacknai said:

"Today marks the second anniversary of the death of my only child, Maxfield Aaron Shacknai. He was six years old when he died while under the care of Rebecca Zahau.

Yet today, instead of being able to merely mourn the loss of Maxie, my sister Nina Romano and I are dealing with a baseless lawsuit which has been filed against us. I have lost my only son and Nina has lost her only nephew. While we empathize with the Zahau family regarding their grief over the loss of Rebecca, for Nina and I to be named as parties to this frivolous lawsuit by the Zahau family is cruel and irresponsible. There is absolutely no truth to these allegations. Unfortunately, I have now been left with no alternative but to initiate significant measures to ensure the ongoing protection of myself, as well as my remaining family. The accusations are shameful and groundless and have no basis in fact or evidence.

I respectfully ask that the public continue to keep us in their prayers as we remember Maxie on this somber occasion."

I was just checking 10News before heading for bed and they have a section listing headlines that are "Trending Now" and this is one of them at 2 AM 9/25/13:
http://www.10news.com/news/dina-shacknai-responds-to-wrongful-death-lawsuit-filed-by-rebecca-zahaus-family-071613

I wonder who has taken the time to look for and click on this OLD headline story enough times to put it up as one of 5 top trending???
It was replaced by another headline, but then appeared again????

 

[MyBelle]

A child abuse investigation was not initiated by MS's physicians. They had discussed the possibility, but further tests that revealed his injuries were the result of the accidental fall. San Diego's childrens services were not contacted.

Yes, Dr. Brad Peterson did ask the hospital to initiate an investigation. Detective Atkins mentioned it in at least one search warrant. It was the ME who disagreed with Peterson and decided it was an accident.


http://www.760kfmb.com/story/156288...es-to-zahau-family-attorney?clienttype=mobile

A search warrant unsealed on Sept. 22 revealed that the head of the Intensive Care Unit at Rady Children's Hospital, Dr. Bradley Peterson, initially believed his patient, Max Shacknai, may have been suffocated before he fell down the stairs.

The warrant paraphrases a July 14 statement Dr. Peterson gave to Coronado Police Detective Thomas Adkins, while Max was still on life support:

"Based on the description of the incident, surrounding Shacknai's fall, Dr. Peterson did not feel the visible injuries were consistent with the cardiac arrest and brain swelling experienced by Shacknai. Dr. Peterson expressed concerns made based on the – the above factors, suffocation may have occurred prior to Shacknai's fall."

In Max's autopsy report, the medical examiner disagreed and determined the boy's injuries were consistent with an accidental neck injury sustained in the fall.

 

[Betty P]

Yes, Dr. Brad Peterson did ask the hospital to initiate an investigation. Detective Atkins mentioned it in at least one search warrant. It was the ME who disagreed with Peterson and decided it was an accident.


http://www.760kfmb.com/story/156288...es-to-zahau-family-attorney?clienttype=mobile

A search warrant unsealed on Sept. 22 revealed that the head of the Intensive Care Unit at Rady Children's Hospital, Dr. Bradley Peterson, initially believed his patient, Max Shacknai, may have been suffocated before he fell down the stairs.

The warrant paraphrases a July 14 statement Dr. Peterson gave to Coronado Police Detective Thomas Adkins, while Max was still on life support:

"Based on the description of the incident, surrounding Shacknai's fall, Dr. Peterson did not feel the visible injuries were consistent with the cardiac arrest and brain swelling experienced by Shacknai. Dr. Peterson expressed concerns made based on the – the above factors, suffocation may have occurred prior to Shacknai's fall."

In Max's autopsy report, the medical examiner disagreed and determined the boy's injuries were consistent with an accidental neck injury sustained in the fall.

But the Dept of Children's Services was never contacted, nor was any investigation begun. It's an erroneous talking point that is irrelevant. MS's accident was not the result of abuse and RZ did not commit suicide. She was not concerned about any of those things, she had nothing to hide.

As an excuse for trying to trump up justification for a suicide that never happened, its not worth much. It certainly won't stand up in court.

 

[MyBelle]

In Max's autopsy report, the medical examiner disagreed and determined the boy's injuries were consistent with an accidental neck injury sustained in the fall.

But the Dept of Children's Services was never contacted, nor was any investigation begun. It's an erroneous talking point that is irrelevant. MS's accident was not the result of abuse and RZ did not commit suicide. She was not concerned about any of those things, she had nothing to hide.

As an excuse for trying to trump up justification for a suicide that never happened, its not worth much. It certainly won't stand up in court.

According to the link I posted, both Max and Rebecca were still alive when Rady contacted Coronado police and Det. Adkins responded. All of it is already sworn testimony by the Detective and I think it will hold up in court if this case ever makes it to a courtroom.

It certainly is relevant because the "description" of Max's fall came from RZ and her sister.

"Based on the description of the incident, surrounding Shacknai's fall, Dr. Peterson did not feel the visible injuries were consistent with the cardiac arrest and brain swelling experienced by Shacknai.

JMO

 

[*Lash*]

According to the link I posted, both Max and Rebecca were still alive when Rady contacted Coronado police and Det. Adkins responded. All of it is already sworn testimony by the Detective and I think it will hold up in court if this case ever makes it to a courtroom.

It certainly is relevant because the "description" of Max's fall came from RZ and her sister.

"Based on the description of the incident, surrounding Shacknai's fall, Dr. Peterson did not feel the visible injuries were consistent with the cardiac arrest and brain swelling experienced by Shacknai.

JMO

According to the link you provided and the actual search warrant, Detective Adkins did not speak to Dr. Peterson until AFTER Rebecca had passed. Rebecca was found deceased on July 13th. Detective Adkins was requested to respond on July 14th at approx 18:00 hours. The MSM article provided above is a July 14 statement Dr. Peterson gave to Coronado Police Detective Thomas Adkins. Over 36 hours after Rebecca found imo murdered. The detective was also responding to a "pending" report by a hospital social worker, not CPS. These are the facts known to the public.

Hopefully the WDS depositions will bring out the truth of what really happened. Until then, reiterating over and over that Rebecca was dodging phone calls or afraid of a CPS investigation are nothing but rumors. It doesn't matter how many times this subject is brought up, it is doesn't change these are rumors until proven otherwise. I tend to believe Rebecca will be cleared of these allegations. The Zahau's knew when they filed the WDS what could potentially be brought out in court. This did not thwart them from filing a WDS.



Search Warrant -
http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_41290.pdf

 

[MyBelle]

According to the link you provided and the actual search warrant, Detective Adkins did not speak to Dr. Peterson until AFTER Rebecca had passed. Rebecca was found deceased on July 13th. Detective Adkins was requested to respond on July 14th at approx 18:00 hours. The MSM article provided above is a July 14 statement Dr. Peterson gave to Coronado Police Detective Thomas Adkins. Over 36 hours after Rebecca found imo murdered. The detective was also responding to a "pending" report by a hospital social worker, not CPS. These are the facts known to the public.

Hopefully the WDS depositions will bring out the truth of what really happened. Until then, reiterating over and over that Rebecca was dodging phone calls or afraid of a CPS investigation are nothing but rumors. It doesn't matter how many times this subject is brought up, it is doesn't change these are rumors until proven otherwise. I tend to believe Rebecca will be cleared of these allegations. The Zahau's knew when they filed the WDS what could potentially be brought out in court. This did not thwart them from filing a WDS.

View attachment 37698

Search Warrant -
http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_41290.pdf

The doctor was looking for the truth when he had the social worker contact police: "Based on the description of the incident, surrounding Shacknai's fall, Dr. Peterson did not feel the visible injuries were consistent with the cardiac arrest and brain swelling experienced by Shacknai."

I don't believe it is just a rumor that the police concluded Rebecca committed suicide because of Max's condition. That is my conclusion as well.

JMO

 

[kittychi]

The doctor was looking for the truth when he had the social worker contact police: "Based on the description of the incident, surrounding Shacknai's fall, Dr. Peterson did not feel the visible injuries were consistent with the cardiac arrest and brain swelling experienced by Shacknai."

I don't believe it is just a rumor that the police concluded Rebecca committed suicide because of Max's condition. That is my conclusion as well.

JMO

BBM: This is your assumption. Based on your submitted link above, Dr. Peterson never clarified his remarks:
"In repeated emails and phone messages, News 8 attempted unsuccessfully to obtain clarification of Dr. Peterson's opinions and statements while Max Shacknai was under his care at Rady Children's Hospital."

 

[MyBelle]

BBM: This is your assumption. Based on your submitted link above, Dr. Peterson never clarified his remarks:
"In repeated emails and phone messages, News 8 attempted unsuccessfully to obtain clarification of Dr. Peterson's opinions and statements while Max Shacknai was under his care at Rady Children's Hospital."

I've seen nothing to indicate the Dr. was not in pursuit of the truth. I don't need further clarification of his actions in having police notified. I do know because of privacy laws, Dr. Peterson can't make a public statement about a patient in his care but I think he can testify about it as can the experts Dina hired to offer their professional opinion that Max was a victim of homicide.

JMO

 

[kittychi]

I've seen nothing to indicate the Dr. was not in pursuit of the truth. I don't need further clarification of his actions in having police notified. I do know because of privacy laws, Dr. Peterson can't make a public statement about a patient in his care but I think he can testify about it as can the experts Dina hired to offer their professional opinion that Max was a victim of homicide.

JMO

Well it would have been very easy for Dr. Peterson or a representative from the hospital to just state that he can't make a public statement about a patient in his care. Instead, Ben Metcalf, Public Information officer, made this statement: "We appreciate your interest, however, I have spoken with both Dr. Peterson and the attorney for Rady Children's and neither wish to make any comment regarding this case."

IMO, the way this statement is worded, it suggests that there was a clear path for Dr. Peterson to clarify his remarks if he had chosen to.