Estate of Rebecca Zahau et al v. Shacknai et al

[MyBelle]

BBM - It is not a fact Dr. Peterson had the social worker contact the police. It is widely known when a child is involved in such a serious accident it is procedural for a social worker to complete appropriate paperwork. It is possible Dr. Peterson was merely answering questions from a call the social worker initiated on her own. Your opinion is also feasible, but not fact. There is nothing in the search warrant stating Dr. Peterson had the social worker contact the police.




BBM - This is blatantly false and not a fact. As I have provided sources in many posts, LE was not contacted until after Rebecca's death. The search warrant clearly outlines a call was made to LE on July 14th at 18:00. Adkins was responding to this call on July 14th. 36 hours after Rebecca had passed. Where is this clearness coming from when the search warrant is pretty clear when the call was made?

Search warrant 41290 -
http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_41290.pdf

It is a fact that Dr. Peterson had the social worker file a report. Dr. Melinek reviewed the report by child protective services. It does exist. I don't believe it is protocol for a hospital to involve CPS or police for every serious accident involving children. Especially a children's hospital. The volume of accidents would overwhelm the system.

The search warrant does not indicate when police were contacted by the social worker, it indicates when Det. Adkins responded and actually spoke to Dr. Peterson who explained his concerns.

 

[MyBelle]

BBM, and snipped for focus.

Your statements are completely incorrect.

The HIPPA privacy language you quoted applies to individuals seeking medical records for purposes outside of the legal system, and does not apply to court issued subpoenas.

Yes, medical records CAN be subpoenaed for a civil case. HIPPA has added some additional steps, but attorneys know how to subpoena medical records using proper legal channels.

And yes, records of the deceased CAN be subpoenaed, as well as records of the living. I could attach several thousand links to support this, but I'll only put a few here for brevity. Anyone interested can search "medical records subpoena" to read more about the process. Records cannot be requested for an unstated reason. When the subpoena requests portions of the records that are clearly identified, the process goes very smoothly.




http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-medical-records-subpoena.htm

Understanding Medical Subpoenas

www.mlmic.com/portal/files/Dateline/DatelineSpring2011_03.pdf

Regarding HIPPA:


http://www.americanbar.org/newslett...ws_practice_area_e_newsletter_home/hipaa.html



www.lawyertrialforms.com/BI4613HIPAACompliantSubpoenas.pdf

The law I quoted is from the federal government website. Please cite one civil lawsuit where a Judge issued a subpoena for the plaintiff to obtain the medical records of the deceased child of a defendant. Thanks.

 

[MyBelle]

I'm NOT saying he (MD) didn't know. So I'm not saying anything against Dr. Peterson. I'm sure he knew the situation and relayed it to the parents. That IS my point.

Please read the search warrant. I think it makes it very clear that Dr. Peterson told the detective his concerns were about the cardiac arrest and brain swelling. If Max experienced severe brain swelling, I think it would be impossible for Dr. Peterson to perform a test to determine brain death at that point.


JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Fine with me. That is what civil suits are about, and that is no secret to anyone. It didn't bother Dina at all to viciously and vindictively use the legal system to manipulate Jonah into giving her a hefty divorce settlement, right? Did she earn a single penny of that? No. She was, at best, middle class before Jonah's money lofted her up into a different socioeconomic class, right? It's not like they were married for decades and she put him through school. It was okay and "right" for Dina to use the system to "score" millions in her divorce for her very short marriage, right? That's how the game is played. Just ask Angela Hallier. So Dina shouldn't be at all bothered or disturbed at this civil suit. She understands how the system works, right?

Sometimes you have to pursue justice where it is available, when the system has failed abysmally. I happen to believe all three named defendants are responsible as alleged in the civil suit. I hope the Zahaus are awarded every single miserable penny the court can award. They deserve it. Be fine with me if it was far more than $10 million they are awarded.

Small comfort, for what was done to their family member. IMO, the defendants belong in prison for the rest of their lives, if not on death row. They are pretty "lucky" to have escaped any criminal charges, IMO. And I am not the only one who think this.

This is "only" money, right? And they have "plenty" of money, so they won't miss any of it when it is awarded to the Zahaus to compensate them in a small way for the hate and horror and gruesome death Rebecca suffered.

I know you don't agree with me. And that's just fine with me, too.

BBM. How did Dina "manipulate the legal system" in her divorce? Her marriage did produce a child. Are you suggesting he live with his mother in squalor because she wasn't married to his father long enough to pass your personal standard? I'm not sure of the point you are trying to make with your attacks on Dina.

I do agree with you and would like the Zahou lawsuit to move forward. But there is simply no way they will win, imho.

 

[*Lash*]

It is a fact that Dr. Peterson had the social worker file a report. Dr. Melinek reviewed the report by child protective services. It does exist. I don't believe it is protocol for a hospital to involve CPS or police for every serious accident involving children. Especially a children's hospital. The volume of accidents would overwhelm the system.

The search warrant does not indicate when police were contacted by the social worker, it indicates when Det. Adkins responded and actually spoke to Dr. Peterson who explained his concerns.

Hi MyBelle!

Could you please provide a link showing it was Dr. Peterson who had the social worker file the CPS report? I have included Dr. Melinek's report for review. In her report she indicates she read a CPS report that was subsequently closed after Max's autopsy. Dr. Melinek does not give dates, times mor the name of any physician. It may exist, but not publicly and it is not a publicly known fact that Dr. Peterson requested the investigation. Dina obviously has the report, it would be very beneficial to release the CPS report to back up her supposition. This is another reason the Zahau's would want to depose Dr. Peterson.

http://media.utsandiego.com/news/documents/2012/08/06/Dr.Melinek_Report.txt

You're correct, the search warrant does not indicate the time the call came in to the police. It does indicates the time Detective Adkins was requested to respond, which was 36 hours after Rebecca was found deceased. The detective did not talk to Dr. Peterson until after Rebecca's imo murder and Maxie was still alive.

 

[MyBelle]

Hi MyBelle!

Could you please provide a link showing it was Dr. Peterson who had the social worker file the CPS report? I have included Dr. Melinek's report for review. In her report she indicates she read a CPS report that was subsequently closed after Max's autopsy. Dr. Melinek does not give dates, times mor the name of any physician. It may exist, but not publicly and it is not a publicly known fact that Dr. Peterson requested the investigation. Dina obviously has the report, it would be very beneficial to release the CPS report to back up her supposition. This is another reason the Zahau's would want to depose Dr. Peterson.

http://media.utsandiego.com/news/documents/2012/08/06/Dr.Melinek_Report.txt

You're correct, the search warrant does not indicate the time the call came in to the police. It does indicates the time Detective Adkins was requested to respond, which was 36 hours after Rebecca was found deceased. The detective did not talk to Dr. Peterson until after Rebecca's imo murder and Maxie was still alive.

It's in the search warrant you linked. I think the time as to when the detective spoke to Dr. Peterson is totally irrelevant. The important fact is that the Dr. had concerns about the description of Max's incident and CPS and police were involved.

Perhaps Dr. Peterson will testify about his concerns. I doubt his opinion has changed. In fact, I'm betting he has pretty strong opinions about preventible accidents that result in a child's death.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Hi MyBelle!

~snipped~
I have included Dr. Melinek's report for review. In her report she indicates she read a CPS report that was subsequently closed after Max's autopsy. Dr. Melinek does not give dates, times mor the name of any physician. It may exist, but not publicly and it is not a publicly known fact that Dr. Peterson requested the investigation.

Nowhere in Dr. Melinek's report does she state the CPS report was closed after Max's death. What is your basis in concluding a CPS investigation closed? Thanks.

Dr. Peterson was the chief of the ICU, the detective states in the search warrant that he interviewed Dr. Peterson about Dr. Peterson's concerns. Doesn't really matter who at the hospital called CPS or police. The fact remains that the Chief of the ICU had concerns about the description he had received. I don't know how much more public you believe his concerns need to be.

Lets hope Det. Adkins will testify about his interviews of all the parties who provided those descriptions and those parties also provide depositions.

JMO

 

[*Lash*]

It's in the search warrant you linked. I think the time as to when the detective spoke to Dr. Peterson is totally irrelevant. The important fact is that the Dr. had concerns about the description of Max's incident and CPS and police were involved.

Perhaps Dr. Peterson will testify about his concerns. I doubt his opinion has changed. In fact, I'm betting he has pretty strong opinions about preventible accidents that result in a child's death.

JMO

The search warrant I linked and will link again does not state Dr. Peterson requested the social worker to contact the police. Plain and simple, nothing to misinterpret. We will have to agree to disagree.



http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_41290.pdf

 

[MaybeNotToday]

Fine with me. That is what civil suits are about, and that is no secret to anyone. It didn't bother Dina at all to viciously and vindictively use the legal system to manipulate Jonah into giving her a hefty divorce settlement, right? Did she earn a single penny of that? No. She was, at best, middle class before Jonah's money lofted her up into a different socioeconomic class, right? It's not like they were married for decades and she put him through school. It was okay and "right" for Dina to use the system to "score" millions in her divorce for her very short marriage, right? That's how the game is played. Just ask Angela Hallier. So Dina shouldn't be at all bothered or disturbed at this civil suit. She understands how the system works, right?

Sometimes you have to pursue justice where it is available, when the system has failed abysmally. I happen to believe all three named defendants are responsible as alleged in the civil suit. I hope the Zahaus are awarded every single miserable penny the court can award. They deserve it. Be fine with me if it was far more than $10 million they are awarded.

Small comfort, for what was done to their family member. IMO, the defendants belong in prison for the rest of their lives, if not on death row. They are pretty "lucky" to have escaped any criminal charges, IMO. And I am not the only one who think this.

This is "only" money, right? And they have "plenty" of money, so they won't miss any of it when it is awarded to the Zahaus to compensate them in a small way for the hate and horror and gruesome death Rebecca suffered.

I know you don't agree with me. And that's just fine with me, too.

Just to be clear: you believe all the defendants in this civil case should be put to death?

 

[MyBelle]

The search warrant I linked and will link again does not state Dr. Peterson requested the social worker to contact the police. Plain and simple, nothing to misinterpret. We will have to agree to disagree.

View attachment 37733

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_41290.pdf

It does not matter to me who made the request to the hospital's social worker. I assume there is a chain of command.

The important fact remains that police WERE contacted and Dr. Peterson spoke to the detective about his concerns and Max did die. All the sophistry in the world will not change these important facts.

JMO

 

[*Lash*]

Nowhere in Dr. Melinek's report does she state the CPS report was closed after Max's death. What is your basis in concluding a CPS investigation closed? Thanks.

Dr. Peterson was the chief of the ICU, the detective states in the search warrant that he interviewed Dr. Peterson about Dr. Peterson's concerns. Doesn't really matter who at the hospital called CPS or police. The fact remains that the Chief of the ICU had concerns about the description he had received. I don't know how much more public you believe his concerns need to be.

Lets hope Det. Adkins will testify about his interviews of all the parties who provided those descriptions and those parties also provide depositions.

JMO

BBM - Dr. Melinek stated the subsequent report relied on the ME's conclusion the manner of death was accidental and the case was closed.



http://media.utsandiego.com/news/documents/2012/08/06/Dr.Melinek_Report.txt

 

[MyBelle]

BBM - Dr. Melinek stated the subsequent report relied on the ME's conclusion the manner of death was accidental and the case was closed.

View attachment 37734

http://media.utsandiego.com/news/documents/2012/08/06/Dr.Melinek_Report.txt

More importantly from your link, Dr. Melinek--a highly regarded physician with stellar credentials--seems to be in total agreement with Dr. Peterson. Let's hope the civil case does move forward so that both doctors can share their expert opinions:

"A more reasonable scenario, one that is both consistent with the injuries observed on the deceased and consistent with the scene measurements. is that Maxfield was assaulted by another person at the hallway, near the banister on the second floor. The perpetrator injured his face and shoulder and Maxfield then was pushed against or backed into the second story railing, causing the patterned injuries along his back. Then, he was either lifted over the banister or he escaped over the banister, falling
down to the front entryway, below. He landed on the top of his head and collapsed with his legs following.......Additionally, the location of the injury to the top of the cervical cord makes it incredibly unlikely that Maxfield would have been able to clearly articulate the word "Ocean" after the fall, a process which requires intact upper cervical cord neurons.

My review of all these materials therefore inform me within reasonable medical probability that while the Medical Examiner's cause of death determination is accurate,
the manner of death is not."

 

[Gilgamesh]

Just to be clear: you believe all the defendants in this civil case should be put to death?

Oh for God's sake. That is not what she said.

BEWARE OF THOSE THAT TRY TO DERAIL THE THREAD. It used to happen all the time at the Patch.

 

[justice be served]

Oh for God's sake. That is not what she said.

BEWARE OF THOSE THAT TRY TO DERAIL THE THREAD. It used to happen all the time at the Patch.

I second that.

 

[coastal]

I second that.

Me, too.

 

[K_Z]

This case is the Estate of Rebecca Zahau et al v Shacknai et al. This case is about Rebecca’s death. I do not believe for a minute that Judge Whelan will allow his courtroom to be hijacked to try the death of Max Shacknai in a parallel case. Max’s death is not the focus of this inquiry, as hard as that might be for some people to accept.

So, while Dina may indeed call Bove and Melinek as part of her defense, there is nothing at all either of them will be able to say about how Dina (and Nina and Adam) are not responsible for Rebecca’s death. They were hired by Dina to study Max’s death.
IMO, there is nothing RELEVANT TO REBECCA’S DEATH either Bove or Melinek can contribute to the Estate of Rebecca Zahau et al v Shacknai et al. There is nothing they can testify to from their previously prepared reports, IMO, that will demonstrate or prove that Dina, Nina, and Adam are not responsible for Rebecca’s death. Unless Dina hires them “again” to write NEW reports about how Dina could not possibly be responsible for Rebecca’s death. Then they would be relevant experts.

If Dina calls them to testify based on their previously prepared reports, all they will “prove” is that Dina does not accept Max’s death was an accident. And that doesn’t make Dina “not responsible” for Rebecca’s death. In fact, IMO, it would make Dina look even more vindictive and guilty. That's not a good "look" for any defendant, IMO.

Max’s death is not the subject of this lawsuit, and I do not believe that this Judge will allow Dina to put on a parallel wrongful death suit as a pseudo-defense strategy, simply because she does not accept the finding of accident in Max’s death. That doesn’t get her, or the other defendants any closer to being “not responsible” for Rebecca’s death.

The hard fact is that Max’s death is not being tried in this case. Rebecca’s death is. So all of the discussion about who notified CPS and all that is just a big distraction, and an attempt to hijack the discussion away from Rebecca’s death, IMO.

 

[MyBelle]

This case is the Estate of Rebecca Zahau et al v Shacknai et al. This case is about Rebecca’s death. I do not believe for a minute that Judge Whelan will allow his courtroom to be hijacked to try the death of Max Shacknai in a parallel case. Max’s death is not the focus of this inquiry, as hard as that might be for some people to accept.

So, while Dina may indeed call Bove and Melinek as part of her defense, there is nothing at all either of them will be able to say about how Dina (and Nina and Adam) are not responsible for Rebecca’s death. They were hired by Dina to study Max’s death.
IMO, there is nothing RELEVANT TO REBECCA’S DEATH either Bove or Melinek can contribute to the Estate of Rebecca Zahau et al v Shacknai et al. There is nothing they can testify to from their previously prepared reports, IMO, that will demonstrate or prove that Dina, Nina, and Adam are not responsible for Rebecca’s death. Unless Dina hires them “again” to write NEW reports about how Dina could not possibly be responsible for Rebecca’s death. Then they would be relevant experts.

If Dina calls them to testify based on their previously prepared reports, all they will “prove” is that Dina does not accept Max’s death was an accident. And that doesn’t make Dina “not responsible” for Rebecca’s death. In fact, IMO, it would make Dina look even more vindictive and guilty. That's not a good "look" for any defendant, IMO.

Max’s death is not the subject of this lawsuit, and I do not believe that this Judge will allow Dina to put on a parallel wrongful death suit as a pseudo-defense strategy, simply because she does not accept the finding of accident in Max’s death. That doesn’t get her, or the other defendants any closer to being “not responsible” for Rebecca’s death.

The hard fact is that Max’s death is not being tried in this case. Rebecca’s death is. So all of the discussion about who notified CPS and all that is just a big distraction, and an attempt to hijack the discussion away from Rebecca’s death, IMO.

Your posts are very confusing to me. You have repeatedly insisted that Max's hospital records AND his physician must testify yet you then contradict yourself by insisting Max's death has no part of the lawsuit. In reality, Dina was cleared by law enforcement in RZ's death. This is a fact that no court can ignore. I think the Judge will quickly drop her as a defendant.

I think all the named defendants can and will use Max's death and the circumstances if this case proceeds and that law enforcement will assist them in their defense. I do hope it proceeds and certainly do not share your opinion Max's death is irrelevant.

JMO

 

[MaybeNotToday]

I second that.

Well, I believe that is exactly what she said. That the defendants should be in jail or on death row. And I'm sorry, but it is an offensive thing to say. Are the defendants in this case murderers? If so, yes, they should be put in jail/death row. But what if, just what if they are not murderers? What an awful thing to assume about someone. I sleep easier at night not going around wishing death on innocent people.
And this is not an "attempt to derail" unless if by derail you mean bringing a little reality back into the conversation. These are real people- I know you wish they were not. It makes vilifying easier.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

 

[justice be served]

Well, I believe that is exactly what she said. That the defendants should be in jail or on death row. And I'm sorry, but it is an offensive thing to say. Are the defendants in this case murderers? If so, yes, they should be put in jail/death row. But what if, just what if they are not murderers? What an awful thing to assume about someone. I sleep easier at night not going around wishing death on innocent people.
And this is not an "attempt to derail" unless if by derail you mean bringing a little reality back into the conversation. These are real people- I know you wish they were not. It makes vilifying easier.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

I "seconded" the derail comment - not the death comment. Please respond on the death comments to the poster that made them - that was not me.

 

[MyBelle]

Oh for God's sake. That is not what she said.

BEWARE OF THOSE THAT TRY TO DERAIL THE THREAD. It used to happen all the time at the Patch.

Actually, it is what the poster said. Kinda harsh words to say the defendants belong in prison or on death row considering it is a civil lawsuit, not a murder trial.

JMO