EVERY Possibility...

Hi, Angelwngs, good post.I am glad your son returned unharmed.What a worry parenting is.I agree with you regarding walking to the ends of the earth for our kids.
I think if my child had been killed(heaven Forbid) I would be wanting to talk to police to give them any info I could. I would be desperate to help not trying to o rganise a flight out.Stonewalling the cops is never going to clear your name. In all the child murders I read about parents who are 'innocent' are more than happy to help the police.
The Ramsay's were hideing Patsy's guilt so co-operation was never going to be easy.
 
sandraladeda said:
and while you're at it, picture PR skipping over the stair where the ransom note was spread out for her to discover....
~~~~~

That too! Exactly! Lord in Heaven, even if this staircase were in my home and I was use to using it on a regular basis, I would still need to pay careful attention to simply walking down or up its steps very carefully to keep from busting bootie!
 
How convenient that the desk where the pad of paper the RN was written on is right there next to the stairs.

Those stairs look dangerous. I wonder if a child would get such a head injury if she were pushed down them, or if someone trying to carry her dropped her?
 
Darlene733510 said:
How convenient that the desk where the pad of paper the RN was written on is right there next to the stairs.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm sure that I read that it was said by PR that the pad that was used was kept in the master bedroom, suggesting that the killer removed it from there and that it was left on the table after the ransom note was written. I also remember a poster saying that the pad was kept at a desk near a phone on the same level in the home as the note was found...so I don't know which is correct. I do not remember the interview w/ Patsy about where the pad was usually stored. I'll have to look it up.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Those stairs look dangerous. I wonder if a child would get such a head injury if she were pushed down them, or if someone trying to carry her dropped her?
Don't they!? I wondered the same thing...
 
angelwngs said:
Don't they!? I wondered the same thing...
Wonder if the stairs were "checked" by LE for signs of hair, skin, etc. when sweeping the house forensically? :confused:
 
http://crimemagazine.com/jonbenetdocs.htm

The most interesting thing I found in reading today was that Fleet White called LA over to the side to tell her privately that he had gone down and opened the wine cellar door and looked inside, prior to JR doing so when he found JBR's body. He said that he had not seen JBR in the wine cellar. I knew that he had looked prior to JR. What I didn't know was that he called Det. LA over to the side to tell her this privately. It seems that Dec. 26th, 1996, was 1st day in the 'turning point' of the Fleet White Family friendship and support of the Ramsey's.

The Fleet White letters (linked above) seem to indicate more than mere disgust that the Ramsey's left Boulder immediately after the murder for Atlanta. I originally assumed that the Whites felt as if the Ramsey's exited swiftly leaving the Whites and other Boulder friends and associates to field questions and accusations alone. Now, it looks more like Fleet White was seriously disturbed by JR finding JBR's body in a room in which he had already looked combined with many other acts which others perceived as uncharacteristic of the parents of a missing/murdered child on the day it is discovered.

(In PR's interviews she says that she knows tha LE has already been made aware that the actions of Fleet White were considered by them to be under suspicion as early as a couple of days after the murder....It appears that the R camp wanted to turn the tables on the Whites as soon as they noted the Whites questioning the R's actions. How better to attack your 'newest enemy' than to counter by placing them at the top of your own suspect list?)

http://crimemagazine.com/jonbenetdocs.htm


Barbara Fernie and Priscilla White immediately leave the sun porch with Patsy upon hearing the commotion of the 911 call for an ambulance and the subsiquent entrance of John Ramsey carrying JBR upstairs. Patsy remains seated in the sun porch. I believe this was in Det. LA's statement of the events/timeline of the day.

Det. LA said she heard a gutteral sound/moan some from the sun porch after JBR's body was brought upstairs. Shortly after this sound, Patsy entered and threw herself on JBR's body saying, 'Jesus, you raised Lazerus from the dead. Please Jesus, raise my baby from the dead.'

(JMO, but I sure hope that there were several hysterical, 'Oh Dear Gods... and Oh No's' before this statement exited her mouth. Otherwise, it sure looks as if she already knew JBR was dead a descent time prior to entering the room.)

The people in the Ramsey World and their pictures:

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/6502/primer/primer1_fam.html
 
"Had the Ramsays been interviewed by police seperately asap we would not even be debating this case.Patsy would have cracked immediately."

We'll never know now.
 
angelwngs said:
SNIP

How have your theories been altered in the last two weeks?
If it's possible, I've become more conflicted. I've been an IDI for 10 years now but the more I read here the more I realize I don't have an f-ing clue! People on both sides of the fence put out equally compelling and logical arguments to back their beliefs. As you said, with even the experts not agreeing on ANY aspect of this case except that there's a dead child, it's so hard to form a definite opinion. If I was to opine based only on my gut (which I know is not evidence) I would say I don't think these particular parents killed their daughter - I'm starting to believe it was indeed they who staged the crime scene though, but I'm at such a loss as to why. IMO the only thing that could REMOTELY explain them doing such a thing is if they believed they were protecting another child. I'm baffled. Reviewing the ransom note again has really made me question everything I formerly believed *sigh*.
 
lovebites said:
If it's possible, I've become more conflicted. I've been an IDI for 10 years now but the more I read here the more I realize I don't have an f-ing clue! People on both sides of the fence put out equally compelling and logical arguments to back their beliefs. As you said, with even the experts not agreeing on ANY aspect of this case except that there's a dead child, it's so hard to form a definite opinion. If I was to opine based only on my gut (which I know is not evidence) I would say I don't think these particular parents killed their daughter - I'm starting to believe it was indeed they who staged the crime scene though, but I'm at such a loss as to why. IMO the only thing that could REMOTELY explain them doing such a thing is if they believed they were protecting another child. I'm baffled. Reviewing the ransom note again has really made me question everything I formerly believed *sigh*.
Consider your self in well-kept company. This case is tough.

One day when I get the time, I am going to post my theory and the evidence and gut feelings that lead me there..tonight I'm just too tired, having spent the day with 16 6-year olds and a pirate!
 
"I would say I don't think these particular parents killed their daughter - I'm starting to believe it was indeed they who staged the crime scene though, but I'm at such a loss as to why."

Lovebites, it's funny you say that. Back on the 18th of August, Joe Scarborough was discussing this case with several people (Susan Filan [boo!], Wendy Murphy [yahoo!], Pat Browne [double yahoo!], and a host of others). One of them was a talk-show host. He said that, even if you think they've been cleared of the killing, they haven't been cleared of the cover-up. He didn't go into detail, but it got my gears turning.
 
SuperDave said:
"I would say I don't think these particular parents killed their daughter - I'm starting to believe it was indeed they who staged the crime scene though, but I'm at such a loss as to why."

Lovebites, it's funny you say that. Back on the 18th of August, Joe Scarborough was discussing this case with several people (Susan Filan [boo!], Wendy Murphy [yahoo!], Pat Browne [double yahoo!], and a host of others). One of them was a talk-show host. He said that, even if you think they've been cleared of the killing, they haven't been cleared of the cover-up. He didn't go into detail, but it got my gears turning.
Hi SD. What is the generally accepted explanation by the RDI's as to why the Ramseys didn't stage an intruder point of entry, since they went to such lengths to stage the intruder cover up? I mean kick a door in or leave a door open, pry a window open. Seems it would be the first thing to be done in a intruder staging. TIA.
 
"What is the generally accepted explanation by the RDI's as to why the Ramseys didn't stage an intruder point of entry, since they went to such lengths to stage the intruder cover up?"

This:

DocG writes: In answer to the question posed above, "why did they not leave an "obvious" means of entry and exit into the house?," it looks very much like someone DID. The scene at the basement window certainy looks like a staged breakin. What else could it be? It was determined by the police on the scene, who examined that window very carefully (unlike Smit, who worked only with photos), that no one could have passed through it without leaving obvious signs. No such signs were found. Yet the window was both broken and open on the morning of the 26th. And who could have placed a suitcase directly beneath that same window? How is all this evidence to be explained if not as staging? It certainly didn't get there on its own.

Good enough?
 
SuperDave said:
"What is the generally accepted explanation by the RDI's as to why the Ramseys didn't stage an intruder point of entry, since they went to such lengths to stage the intruder cover up?"

This:



Good enough?
Sorry I thought all that was explained away.
Thank you
 
"Sorry I thought all that was explained away."

How do you mean?
 
[JBean]"Sorry I thought all that was explained away."
SuperDave said:
How do you mean?
That would interest me too, JBean - what do you mean by 'explained away'?
Do you mean that the investigators came to the conclusion that it was very unlikely someone entered through the small basement window (undisturbed spider web etc.)?
But this would not be 'explained away' - it would be pointing out a poor staging.

Try to to see this from the perspective of the panicked stagers: maybe the glass was already broken, and the Ramseys got the idea to stage the window as a point of entry.
 
SuperDave said:
"What is the generally accepted explanation by the RDI's as to why the Ramseys didn't stage an intruder point of entry, since they went to such lengths to stage the intruder cover up?"

This:



Good enough?
Your quote says it was determined by LE on the scene that nobody could've passed through the window without leaving signs. I have read in numerous places that there WERE signs....

* There was debris in the window well, but it wasn't pushed up against the windowsill like it was in the other windows.

* There was debris that was inside the house, on the floor beneath the window.

* There was a black mark, much like a scuff mark a shoe would make, on the wall beneath window...above the suitcase.
 
SuperDave said:
"Sorry I thought all that was explained away."

How do you mean?
I was thinking it was determined that the glass was already broken, and that someone had admitted to moving the suitcase under the window. My recollection is fading.
 

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