Evidence of Heart Shaped Sticker on Duct Tape Destroyed

[chefmom]

That's what I was hoping, that it was being held in reserve until just the right moment, then the SA could do a smack-down in court, but legal experts here say that is not likely.... if they have that evidence they have to reveal it to the Defense in plenty of time for them to prepare/respond.

I have some hopes of my own. I keep recalling JB asking Judge S to make the SA turn over certain things and the SA would say that they didn't have those things because they were in the possession of the FBI. Then Judge S would tell JB that he had no jurisdiction over the FBI. I am hoping that the very damning, DP type evidence is with them and will be given to JB when it is absolutely necessary. Not a second before. *Keeping my fingers crossed*

 

[Valhall]

Here is the story I read. Take it for what it is worth, it Pipitone.
link
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/21158117/detail.html

Two pieces of DNA were found on the duct tape attached to Caylee's skull, the same brand and type as that one found on a gas can in the Anthony family's east Orange County home, Pipitone reported.
But neither piece shows traces of Casey Anthony, according to documents released by the state attorney's office on Tuesday.
One DNA sample was traced to an FBI lab analyst who accidentally contaminated the outside of the duct tape during testing, the documents stated. But an FBI lab report showing a fragment of DNA represented by the number 17 was found on the underside, the adhesive side.
Local 6 showed it and other test results to John Jay College Professor Henrietta Nunno, who said it could be a big break for Casey Anthony's defense team.
"So it's not Casey. It's not Caylee. It's not Cindy. It's not George. And it's not the FBI analyst?" Pipitone asked.
"I would agree with that, yes," Nunno said. "Someone who is not one of those people did leave DNA on the tape. Whether it was the perpetrator of the crime or another person who examined it, I guess we don't know."
The amount of DNA is so small that it can't be used to identify whether it is from another FBI analyst.


Looking for comments on this. Or did I read it wrong.

OH MY GOODNESS! I HOPE the defense is stupid enough to bring this to court and try to get it entered as evidence. Let's review what will happen in the crapstorm that ensues:

1. First it should be pointed out that if it's below reportable limits for the prosecution, it's below reportable limits for the defense. It's below reportable limits - period. So it most likely won't be accepted in as evidence. But if it is!!!

2. There is only one "character" in this drama with a 17 in that allele. The below limit (X) can be: Caylee or Casey. The allele 17 comes from BB - as in Brian Burner - as in Brian Burner's shovel. As in the Brian Burner's shovel with a mixture of male DNA (below reportable limits) and female DNA (ABOVE REPORTABLE LIMITS on the amelogenin typing for female DNA) with two alleles matching KC's (below reportable limits on the alleles).

SOOOOO...if the defense is boneheaded enought to push this cart into court, and lucky enough to get it admitted they will effectively make the first connection between Brian Burner's shovel and the crime scene.

BRING IT ON!

 

[JWG]

Here is the story I read. Take it for what it is worth, it Pipitone.
link
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/21158117/detail.html

Two pieces of DNA were found on the duct tape attached to Caylee's skull, the same brand and type as that one found on a gas can in the Anthony family's east Orange County home, Pipitone reported.
But neither piece shows traces of Casey Anthony, according to documents released by the state attorney's office on Tuesday.
One DNA sample was traced to an FBI lab analyst who accidentally contaminated the outside of the duct tape during testing, the documents stated. But an FBI lab report showing a fragment of DNA represented by the number 17 was found on the underside, the adhesive side.
Local 6 showed it and other test results to John Jay College Professor Henrietta Nunno, who said it could be a big break for Casey Anthony's defense team.
"So it's not Casey. It's not Caylee. It's not Cindy. It's not George. And it's not the FBI analyst?" Pipitone asked.
"I would agree with that, yes," Nunno said. "Someone who is not one of those people did leave DNA on the tape. Whether it was the perpetrator of the crime or another person who examined it, I guess we don't know."
The amount of DNA is so small that it can't be used to identify whether it is from another FBI analyst.


Looking for comments on this. Or did I read it wrong.

I am wondering why it was assumed by Dr. Nunno that the DNA could not have come from FBI analyst Maureen Bradley, who had an allele value of 17 in the same Locii as the DNA fragment found on the tape? Not proof that it came from her, but she cannot be excluded as the source of that DNA fragment.

 

[Dear Prudence]

OH MY GOODNESS! I HOPE the defense is stupid enough to bring this to court and try to get it entered as evidence. Let's review what will happen in the crapstorm that ensues:

1. First it should be pointed out that if it's below reportable limits for the prosecution, it's below reportable limits for the defense. It's below reportable limits - period. So it most likely won't be accepted in as evidence. But if it is!!!

2. There is only one "character" in this drama with a 17 in that allele. The below limit (X) can be: Caylee or Casey. The allele 17 comes from BB - as in Brian Burner - as in Brian Burner's shovel. As in the Brian Burner's shovel with a mixture of male DNA (below reportable limits) and female DNA (ABOVE REPORTABLE LIMITS on the amelogenin typing for female DNA) with two alleles matching KC's (below reportable limits on the alleles).

SOOOOO...if the defense is boneheaded enought to push this cart into court, and lucky enough to get it admitted they will effectively make the first connection between Brian Burner's shovel and the crime scene.

BRING IT ON!

Where did the 17 come from? I didn't see any reference to that in the FBI reports. If I missed it, could someone please help me find it?

Also, if it's below reportable limits, how did this person in the news story rule out Casey, Caylee, Cindy, George and the lab tech? I would think no one could be ruled out or in.

All of this DNA stuff is a bit over my head, but I'm trying, so thanks in advance for any explanations.

 

[Valhall]

Where did the 17 come from? I didn't see any reference to that in the FBI reports. If I missed it, could someone please help me find it?

Also, if it's below reportable limits, how did this person in the news story rule out Casey, Caylee, Cindy, George and the lab tech? I would think no one could be ruled out or in.

All of this DNA stuff is a bit over my head, but I'm trying, so thanks in advance for any explanations.

Well, first of all, you're absolutely right that if it's below reportable limits, then it's just that. BUT, GA, CA, Caylee and Casey do not have a 17 in the first allele, so it's not from them.

Go to this report, page 366, last row in table. See the (17) in the third column? Then there's the (X) in the sixth column? The X represents the presence of female DNA in a what is called an amelogenin typing test (gender test). The 17 is picked up as an allele in that particular postion.

That's what they are talking about

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21147519/detail.html

 

[Brini]

I think it is possible that because they used this so called residue evidence (which does not exist) to obtain a search warrant means that evidence collected from that search warrant could get thrown out.

Maybe you msised the forensics files? You don't seem to be up to date re- physical or behavioral evidence.

- Decomp in the car w/ human decomp (folks, IIRC the test r/u porcine based on two chemical levels)
- Hair w/ antemortum decomp at the proximal end in the trunk, DNA is A ante-mortum mitopchondrial
- Refusal to report child is missing.
- Lies to LE, attempts to derail investigation.
- Fictitious kidnapper.
- False kidnap report.
- KC was the only person who had posession of the baby.
- KC is the only person who had posession of the car.

MANY other murderers were convicted on MUCH less. This one is a slam dunk.

We have all the forensic files, if you'd care to update your knowledge.

Insisting that there is no evidence, after we have all read it, won't convince anyone, honey.

 

[MD MOMMY]

Maybe you msised the forensics files? You don't seem to be up to date re- physical or behavioral evidence.

- Decomp in the car w/ human decomp (folks, IIRC the test r/u porcine based on two chemical levels)
- Hair w/ antemortum decomp at the proximal end in the trunk, DNA is A ante-mortum mitopchondrial
- Refusal to report child is missing.
- Lies to LE, attempts to derail investigation.
- Fictitious kidnapper.
- False kidnap report.
- KC was the only person who had posession of the baby.
- KC is the only person who had posession of the car.

MANY other murderers were convicted on MUCH less. This one is a slam dunk.

We have all the forensic files, if you'd care to update your knowledge.

Insisting that there is no evidence, after we have all read it, won't convince anyone, honey.

Not to mention a heart shaped sticker was found at the remains site. They had all the "cause" in the world to obtain the search warrant at the A's home. Nothing is getting thrown out of anywhere IMO.

ETA..I need to look when the search warrant for the stickers was obtained. I seem to remember it was after the sticker was found at the scene anyway..not when the lab tech saw the adhesive. I could be wrong though.

 

[one_hooah_wife]

On the topic of media reports of evidence handling and various discovery items that seem to back up the defenses claims of Fumbling Feds:

I really hope that this is one of those times, and there have been many in this case, where things taken out of context are not what they seem. Copy is written to make the story more interesting on a slow news day. I have to admit though ... I have been a little rattled with the media reports on the handling of evidence. I've had to just take a deep breath and go with my gut feeling that this case is solid. SA is setting this up as a game of chess, while the defense is running around like idjuts yelling to the world "crown me, crown me!"

 

[RR0004]

OH MY GOODNESS! I HOPE the defense is stupid enough to bring this to court and try to get it entered as evidence. Let's review what will happen in the crapstorm that ensues:

1. First it should be pointed out that if it's below reportable limits for the prosecution, it's below reportable limits for the defense. It's below reportable limits - period. So it most likely won't be accepted in as evidence. But if it is!!!

2. There is only one "character" in this drama with a 17 in that allele. The below limit (X) can be: Caylee or Casey. The allele 17 comes from BB - as in Brian Burner - as in Brian Burner's shovel. As in the Brian Burner's shovel with a mixture of male DNA (below reportable limits) and female DNA (ABOVE REPORTABLE LIMITS on the amelogenin typing for female DNA) with two alleles matching KC's (below reportable limits on the alleles).

SOOOOO...if the defense is boneheaded enought to push this cart into court, and lucky enough to get it admitted they will effectively make the first connection between Brian Burner's shovel and the crime scene.

BRING IT ON!

Okay...wow...that was A LOT of information. Can you please explain it to me? How did you come to those conclusions? I am totally lost.

PS- I remember on the first day (29th) I read some other agency (lab) had looked at the evidence prior to the FBI...I tried to go back and find it (it made my eyes hurt!)...but I was under the impression that it answered the question of the mysterious dna.

 

[Valhall]

Okay...wow...that was A LOT of information. Can you please explain it to me? How did you come to those conclusions? I am totally lost.

PS- I remember on the first day (29th) I read some other agency (lab) had looked at the evidence prior to the FBI...I tried to go back and find it (it made my eyes hurt!)...but I was under the impression that it answered the question of the mysterious dna.

What the defense is saying right now is that because there is a below reportable limit result that shows 1. female DNA, and 2. a 17 in the first allele position, that it must mean there was an unknown female involved that is not KC (because KC does not have a 17 in the first allele position).

BB does have a 17 in the first allele position, and because of the low levels on the return and because this could be a mixture of DNA - this could just as well be a mixture of BB and Caylee or KC returning. The point is, they have no business centering on this as if it saves their day...it will only open up more problems for them because the prosecution can turn around use test results they otherwise would not try to get into court to make a connection to BB's shovel - which would be a substantial connection between KC, a shovel and the crime scene.

 

[Balthazar]

I think this is an interesting idea, Valhall, but I'm not sure I can make the logical leap to BB's shovel with this information. How would the shovel have come into contact with the duct tape if Caylee was double bagged? Can you expand on this idea more? I am very intrigued!

 

[Valhall]

I think this is an interesting idea, Valhall, but I'm not sure I can make the logical leap to BB's shovel with this information. How would the shovel have come into contact with the duct tape if Caylee was double bagged? Can you expand on this idea more? I am very intrigued!

Well, first you would have to assume that Caylee was double bagged when the shovel was used, wouldn't you? Then, it seems you are assuming the shovel must contact the duct tape...it doesn't have to. The mixture on BB's shovel was taken from the handle of the shovel. All that's required for that mixture to transfer to some degree to the tape is for KC to handle the shovel handle and then use the duct tape.

 

[Balthazar]

Well, first you would have to assume that Caylee was double bagged when the shovel was used, wouldn't you? Then, it seems you are assuming the shovel must contact the duct tape...it doesn't have to. The mixture on BB's shovel was taken from the handle of the shovel. All that's required for that mixture to transfer to some degree to the tape is for KC to handle the shovel handle and then use the duct tape.

So, you think that KC handled the shovel, then duct taped Caylee shortly afterwards which transferred BB's DNA to the tape? Then Casey bagged Caylee?

 

[Valhall]

So, you think that KC handled the shovel, then duct taped Caylee shortly afterwards which transferred BB's DNA to the tape? Then Casey bagged Caylee?

I have no idea what she did. I'm not talking about what I think happened. I'm talking about the door the defense can open by trying to use this "almost not even there" DNA data.

 

[JBean]

are we still talking about the tape residue( or lack thereof) in here? every time I come in here I have to double check the thread title LOL.

 

[Balthazar]

I have no idea what she did. I'm not talking about what I think happened. I'm talking about the door the defense can open by trying to use this "almost not even there" DNA data.

Oh, OK, I get you. I think you have a very interesting idea about how this might play out in court!

 

[Oakley]

Baez on with Geraldo further spinning his tangled web, "blah blah blah, uhm, leaks, um, no residue on tape, uhm, <whine whine whine."> Think they were out on Geraldo's boat today. They were standing by a boat dock during the interview.

 

[countzero]

are we still talking about the tape residue( or lack thereof) in here? every time I come in here I have to double check the thread title LOL.

Ha, I have to do that when there are many threads with new posts I haven't read and I have to look to see what thread I am reading!

My wee brain will have to be re-wired when the trial actually starts.

 

[seagull65]

I'm kinda sorry that this subject is being discussed on the thread, but because it is, I'll share my thoughts here.

I totally get the whole "latent" print language. The FBI unequivocally states that there were no latent prints found on the duct tape. I would actually be kinda surprised if there were, given the elements, time, & close proximity to decomp involved. But here's my thing. I was educated about patent prints while reading about the D Routier case. Here's a brief description from Wiki:

"Patent prints

These are friction ridge impressions of unknown origins which are obvious to the human eye and are caused by a transfer of foreign material on the finger, onto a surface. Because they are already visible they need no enhancement, and are generally photographed instead of being lifted in the same manner as latent prints.[citation needed] Finger deposits can include materials such as ink, dirt, or blood onto a surface."

IMO, it would be hard to handle duct tape without touching the sticky side. I, in fact have done my own little experiments in this regard. When I touch the sticky side, it leaves a patent print in the goo. Try it. I'm no fingerprint expert, nor am I saying how easy or difficult it would be to read this type of a print in duct tape goo, but I'd think that any prints in the goo would hold up to the elements better than any latents on the silver side.
You may well think I've lost my mind or I'm grasping at straws; and I know it's just a matter of semantics, but until and unless I see specific language from the FBI stating "no prints of any kind", I'm gonna hold out hope that they've got KC's patent prints from the sticky side! All of the language in all of the communications thus far re: fingerprints is heavily "latent" weighted. KWIM? Is it word games because the SA isn't ready to tip their hand in this regard? Because, to my eye, there is no outward evidence to justify the DP in this case, so for now anyway, this is where I'm placing all of my hopes.

(Or somebody's prints, whoever it was, Casey or otherwise. I know what you mean.)

Thanks for the great information Ruby B

 

[Pondering Mind]

(Or somebody's prints, whoever it was, Casey or otherwise. I know what you mean.)

Thanks for the great information Ruby B

Very true! It would be interesting to see if Cindy, George or Lee had any prints there just from handling the tape previously. Either way, it would tie it back to KC imo, since I don't believe that the A's were/are involved in anything other than the possible cover up. ...JMVHO Good thinkin seagull!