EVIDENCE - Pro and Con

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Arrest warrants obtained by the Carolina Forest Chronicle on Sunday state the obstruction of justice charges stem from statements made on Dec. 20, the day after Heather Elvis was reported missing.

Tammy Moorer’s obstruction of justice warrant states she “prevented, impeded or interfered with an investigation to include but not limited to providing and creating false, misleading and/or inaccurate information regarding the disappearance of Heather Elvis and her and Sidney Moorer’s activities in the early morning hours of December 18th, 2013.”

http://m.myhorrynews.com/news/crime/article_9134b14e-9d67-11e3-a5f5-0017a43b2370.html?mode=jqm


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Thank you. I had just looked back through the SC charges and realized it wouldn't have to do with the fraud. TM has two IE charges and the obstruction charge; case numbers 2014A2611000021, 2014A2611000026, 2014A2611000027, with the obstruction charge being filed after one IE charge but before the other.
 
The state is not required to have a theory in order to charge someone with murder and they are not required to stay tied to a theory they do have if the evidence they continue to uncover changes their understanding of an element of the crime. Only evidence to prove probable cause is needed for arrest and indictment and then of course at trial they need to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt.

In the Manson case, for instance, the whole "Helter Skelter" link, providing motive and context, was not uncovered or understood until long after the 3 girls and Manson were behind bars.

Motive is nice to have and juries always want to know, but motive is not a required element to obtain a conviction.

A theory is not required per se, but if the state can't put together a cohesive case that ties the evidence they do have together in a way that makes sense, then it will be hard for a jury to convict, so it's in their best interest to figure out the story they want to tell by the time the trial rolls around and of course make sure the evidence they do have fits that story.

In this case there is a pretty simple story: young woman sees man in her workplace, becomes attracted, pursues, he responds favorably, they begin an affair of some length (about 3 months), he's married, the wifey finds out, is furious/jealous/insertEmotionsHere, wants to control the outcome, threatens/harasses the mistress, probably threatens the husband, controls the husband's movements, continues to contact the mistress.... etc etc. In a way it's a very standard type of story with jealousy and revenge the likely motives on the part of the wife, and 'get rid of the problem once & for all' on the part of the husband.
 
I did some research on the searches and found CUE did a search near Tidewater Road which is 10 miles from PTL and 1.4 miles from her condo. Since CUE was involved, I assume the search was sanctioned by LE, so they must think she could have been removed from PTL.
 
So, we already know they had some false leads to begin with (DNA identified in wrong vehicle, large cash withdrawal) but are you saying if evidence leads them to other conclusions later (and the defense has access to that evidence) they cannot change their theory? I'm not a lawyer, so, I really don't know. But, I thought that was the whole point of why it takes so long to put together a thorough and strong case. How many cases do we see where the defense postulates several theories to create reasonable doubt? But the prosecution has to stick with one? That doesn't seem logical to me, but, again, I don't work in the legal field. Just grab my bits and pieces from WS whenever I can :D

First, I think the evidence is in, which is why the M's were arrested, and why LE said long ago they don't know if they'll ever discover the manner of death or location of the body. So I don't anticipate new info unless someone talks.

And I'm no lawyer either, so my point was to the wisdom of a prosecution shifting its position on what happened, not the legal right to theorize, or introduce new evidence. However, it seems to me that you have all you need going in or you don't.
 
I did some research on the searches and found CUE did a search near Tidewater Road which is 10 miles from PTL and 1.4 miles from her condo. Since CUE was involved, I assume the search was sanctioned by LE, so they must think she could have been removed from PTL.

LE said during the early investigation that they didn't believe she was in or had been near the water.
 
LE said during the early investigation that they didn't believe she was in or had been near the water.

I'm not so sure of that either -- LE did use some pretty sophisticated equipment looking in the waters for her. That information was given at the first bond hearing.
 
Question for all you wonderfully smart people. :)

Has anyone given any thought to Tammy's comment outburst at the last bond hearing? It was like she NEEDED everyone to KNOW that LE had offered HER the same thing as SM had been offered (that being if she would tell on SM she could walk and not be charged). I keep wondering why THAT was important enough for her to blurt out in court over. KWIM? The look on her face when she said it makes me think she felt some level of importance that fact be known?
 
Question for all you wonderfully smart people. :)

Has anyone given any thought to Tammy's comment outburst at the last bond hearing? It was like she NEEDED everyone to KNOW that LE had offered HER the same thing as SM had been offered (that being if she would tell on SM she could walk and not be charged). I keep wondering why THAT was important enough for her to blurt out in court over. KWIM? The look on her face when she said it makes me think she felt some level of importance that fact be known?

I think she wanted SM to know she was staying loyal to him, had a chance to throw him under the bus and didn't take it to keep him loyal to her. Also maybe try and make it look like hey I'm not as culpable in this thing as he is, I got offered a deal to spill on him.
 
I have been thinking about this also. What do they have on TM? She does claim they were together all night - so if that is the case, she was involved. Maybe that is why they gave her the opportunity to talk and walk. She just had to say that he left and she doesn't know where he went unless they have more on her than we know.

I always figured they arrested her too because they had found something at the house, maybe on the computer, that implicated TM, maybe even some communication in some way between SM and TM during the goings on, other cell phones possibly, but again nothing has been brought out like that.
 
Question for all you wonderfully smart people. :)

Has anyone given any thought to Tammy's comment outburst at the last bond hearing? It was like she NEEDED everyone to KNOW that LE had offered HER the same thing as SM had been offered (that being if she would tell on SM she could walk and not be charged). I keep wondering why THAT was important enough for her to blurt out in court over. KWIM? The look on her face when she said it makes me think she felt some level of importance that fact be known?

She's a narcissist - it's all about her.
 
Have we found out any details around the DNA found in Heather's car (the DNA that was 'mixed' & thought to have come from the Moorer's truck)? Could it have come from blood or something to make LE believe that Heather was murdered. I remember early on - and I would have to go thru and search for a link - that LE had stated that there was no doubt something happened at Peachtree Landing...does anyone else remember this?
 
Actually, even with a gag order she can talk about herself, she just cannot talk about the case or any aspect about the case. For instance, if she wanted to stand there and talk about some recipe she found she could do that. Only things about the case or anything related to the case or the other players in the case are off-limits in a gag order. It would be stupid for any murder defendant to talk because anything they say can be used against them, but a gag order is specific and doesn't prevent someone from talking in general.
 
I always figured they arrested her too because they had found something at the house, maybe on the computer, that implicated TM, maybe even some communication in some way between SM and TM during the goings on, other cell phones possibly, but again nothing has been brought out like that.

I hope they did find something that definitively showed TM's involvement at the house. I often wondered if Heather's white watch or a necklace of Heather's that she was wearing that fateful night may have been found in Tammy's jewelry box. Just a guess.
 
Actually, even with a gag order she can talk about herself, she just cannot talk about the case or any aspect about the case. For instance, if she wanted to stand there and talk about some recipe she found she could do that. Only things about the case or anything related to the case or the other players in the case are off-limits in a gag order. It would be stupid for any murder defendant to talk because anything they say can be used against them, but a gag order is specific and doesn't prevent someone from talking in general.

Thank you Madeleine, I should have been more specific. I do know she can prattle on and on and on...as long as it's not about the case.

I meant to say, IMO, being unable to verbally attack others involved in this case via social media is bothering her. moo


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LE said during the early investigation that they didn't believe she was in or had been near the water.
I recall this. But LE changes their mind from time to time. Or they may actually have some evidence that points to Heather being taken from PTL. This trial will be quite interesting.
 
Why did HE go meet SM?? Wasn't it said they hadn't been in touch since 11/5 before that? If she was all that anxious to see him, why not have him come over to her place? And why did she wait from the 1:36am phone call until 3am (?) to go to PTL? I obviously am not as caught up as I thought I was and you guys are rocking this case. So young, jealous, and on TM's part, just crazy!

PeterThomasFan posted an article ...http://www.wmbfnews.com/story/27667487/elvis-family-attends-their-daughters-one-year-prayer-vigil

Warrelmann was out of town the night Heather disappeared. She said she was visiting family in Florida, but they were on the phone late at night. She said Heather was telling her about Sidney.

"She told me that he told her that he left his wife and he wanted to see her, and that he missed her and he wanted to be with her. And my immediate instinct was don't do it - don't do it. You've been doing so good. She hadn't talked to him, she hadn't talked about him," Warrelmann explained.


I don't think BW has any reason to lie and has avoided the spotlight, which speaks volumes to me personally. Her statement above tells me why HE went to PTL ..."you've been doing so good" and she hasn't talked to him\about him. She was hung up on him for whatever reason .. And she had to make herself get over him. (Been there before!) And when he called and "needed and wanted her" (JMO), all those old feelings\ reasons came back. I think she waited because she talked to BW, and then fought with her own feelings on what to do. All just my thoughts ...
 
Yes. But why PTL? So close to M's.


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Because it is also where Heather had been known to go (perhaps she had gone there with SM) and because it WOULD be easy access to the M's house. Or maybe that seems like a long distance away to them. Who would notice them in the middle of the night? Little did the M's know that there were a couple of cameras on their route...
 
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