EVIDENCE - Pro and Con

[EmmaRose]

What evidence do you think is in the home ? I am sure this has all been speculated before, but if they did find HE hair, or blood, or etc at the M's home couldn't that be from if SM brought her there while having the affair? (Obviously, a huge amount of blood or tissue is not likely from this, but if they found, say, a splotch of blood or etc that matched HE? I know when I mentioned this on FB in a group, they said there was no way SM took her to his home, but it wouldn't surprise me if he did, when the home was empty. (Regardless of his in laws living next door).

Honestly, I don't think SM would have much of an opportunity to bring Heather there. Tammy was a stay at home Mom, her children did not go to school--they were homeschooled. Plus Tammy ran her business from home. It seems like someone was always at the house. I don't think there was a definite time that Sidney could count on that the house would be available for a tryst.

 

[magnolia]

I guess I see it differently. TM,in her messages to Heather, is commanding Heather to tell her where she is. Clearly TM didn't know where Heather lived at that point. Heather wouldn't comply with TM's demands so TM had to, as she put it, find out another way. Heather had just moved and now TM had to find her without Heather's help. Also, TM loves watching Nancy Grace, I'm sure she could grasp the fact that letting some time pass between threats to Heather and killing Heather, would be to her benefit. TM threatened to "beat SM's *.....Heather didn't get threatened with a beating. TM said....call me and "save yourself" or "it won't be a great turn out for you." TM didn't put a time limit on her threats. I believe that she used that time to find Heather and plan the murder. JMO


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TM really didn't specify exactly who she was threatening with an a-- beating. She stated, "“someone’s about to get their a– beat down.". It is only an assumption she was referring to Sidney. I don't see that nasty word "kill' in the text message either.

Respectfully,I'm not going to assume anything based on TM's love of the Nancy Grace show. I also don't believe it would take 47 days for Tammy to track Heather down. I think it is safe to assume Heather was not a recluse. So far, we don't have any evidence that Tammy used that time to find Heather or that she planned the murder.

 

[PeterThomasFan]

With concern to a cheating spouse, IMO, a large percentage of people who were cheated on would initially react in a similar way – by blaming others and saying angry and threatening words.

To me, it is a reactionary coping method. When someone finds out their spouse was cheating on them, they would naturally go through a roller coaster of emotions – sadness, anger, disgust, depression, vengeance, confusion, and even happiness.

How they react and cope with the situation is based a lot on their personality and life experiences. Some are far better at it than others.

IMO, most folks will immediately start in with threatening words and accusations towards the cheaters. It's just their defense mechanism and a way of venting anger.

How many times have we all been asked the question, "What would you do if your husband/wife was found cheating on you?"

How many of us would immediately say, "I'd kill both of them!"

Not that we would. It's just the most extreme answer that one could blurt out.

Most people would never commit murder if they were cheated on. But then again, some would.

With social media, now people's emotions are being documented online. With every event in one's life, there is a record of their experiences, emotions, and thoughts.

The question to myself and others is: how much weight can we put on words and specifically in a court of law? Or text messages and Facebook posts in this case? I mean, just because someone said something, does not necessarily mean that they will act upon it. Especially when someone is under stress or in the heat of the moment.

Social media is littered with damming posts of thoughts, threats, racism, and hatred. We've all seen the bitter arguments on Facebook and Twitter. IMO, people should be held accountable for their words, but how will it ever be enforced?

 

[jillycat]

The kidnapping charges are what have always made me think in the back of my mind "they have something more" in evidence then what we know. I've been at every hearing - so that along with all the news articles etc -- I've wondered why that charge was in there. Plenty of people have murdered someone - moved the body - and NOT been charged with kidnapping. That says to me - they know something about what happened that caused them to charge with that in addition to the murder charge.

I know we discussed this a bit way back when - but don't recall coming up with anything substantive regarding evidence for that charge?

LE discussed kidnapping and said something to the effect that most people think of it as the victim being removed from a location or taken across a state line. But it's as simple as not allowing someone to leave or get away. (I believe the definition varies state to state) So detaining Heather, or cornering her, or taking custody of her against her will constitutes kidnapping under the law. However, LE also made a remark that implied, or at least had some of us wondering, if they meant she was taken from PTL prior to death, because you can't kidnap a deceased person. But I can't recall the exact remark.

At any rate, even if they prevented her from getting back in her car and driving off, it would have been kidnapping. I believe that when LE set out to charge the M's, they charged them with every possible offense they could. I think the circumstantial nature of the case and no body is why they sought an array of charges. I'm not sure that the kidnapping charge means more than Heather was unable to leave the situation once they were all together, but I suppose we'll have to wait that one out. JMO

 

[magnolia]

I think that's very possible. Others knew about the 90 some calls that Heather didn't answer.

Per the defense attorney:
I'm wondering how the phone calls from Heather via using other phones plays into all this. Also, notes left on Sidney's vehicle.

 

[spiritseeker31]

The messages were sent on the first and third day of November. Heather disappeared 47 days after the text messages were sent. It's obvious Tammy's main agenda was to intimidate Heather so she would answer her phone. My guess is, Tammy wanted to aggresively question Heather about the relationship. If Tammy had really wanted to find Heather to beat her a--, she could have easily tracked her down sooner than 47 days. True, the text messages are overly aggressive, but I would also have to consider the reason Tammy was so angry at that time. All that said, because of the 47 day time lapse, I would need more to tie the ranting in these particular messages to Heather's disappearance.

IMO

47 days is just enough time to collect information, plot and plan the murder of a certain 20 year old that has enraged a psycho, jealous older woman.

 

[bestill]

Per the defense attorney:
I'm wondering how the phone calls from Heather via using other phones plays into all this. Also, notes left on Sidney's vehicle.

Curious about these notes, do you think they have some of them?

 

[Motherof5]

TM really didn't specify exactly who she was threatening with an a-- beating. She stated, "“someone’s about to get their a– beat down.". It is only an assumption she was referring to Sidney. I don't see that nasty word "kill' in the text message either.

Respectfully,I'm not going to assume anything based on TM's love of the Nancy Grace show. I also don't believe it would take 47 days for Tammy to track Heather down. I think it is safe to assume Heather was not a recluse. So far, we don't have any evidence that Tammy used that time to find Heather or that she planned the murder.

I will use your reasoning and say that we don't have any evidence that TM didn't use that time to find Heather. I don't know TM personally. I don't know how rapidly she can locate someone. You don't believe it would take her 47 days? I can't say. Perhaps,she purposely took 47 days? I don't know how long it takes to plan a murder. I don't assume anything based on TM's fascination with NG. I'm looking at her words and actions. TM followed the * beating with...your b*tch is about to take HIS last breath. Heather was a female and SM is male. I assume that HIS would be SM. You're right,TM didn't say,"kill"...just,"save yourself". I guess we'll see what the jury thinks of TM's messages.

 

[Motherof5]

What concerns me now, is the video of the truck has not been proven to be the M's truck - only a similar truck.

Is the video image crystal clear of SM using the payphone?
Or is the image of a man with a similar build?
The bond hearing evidence reveal/retraction, casts a lot of doubt surrounding LE's decisions in this case imo.

This is how I understood that video from the last bond hearing. LE asked SM if he contacted HE and he said,no. They asked him again after seeing the video of him using the payphone. SM asked.....They have payphones? LE told SM that they have video of him using the payphone. SM was faced with video of himself making the call to Heather from the payphone at the same time that Heather's phone records show that she received a call from said payphone and had a conversation with the caller. SM then changed his story and admitted to calling Heather. If I'm understanding this, I don't think there is any question at all as to the man in the video being anyone other than SM.

 

[jillycat]

I will use your reasoning and say that we don't have any evidence that TM didn't use that time to find Heather. I don't know TM personally. I don't know how rapidly she can locate someone. You don't believe it would take her 47 days? I can't say. Perhaps,she purposely took 47 days? I don't know how long it takes to plan a murder. I don't assume anything based on TM's fascination with NG. I'm looking at her words and actions. TM followed the * beating with...your b*tch is about to take HIS last breath. Heather was a female and SM is male. I assume that HIS would be SM. You're right,TM didn't say,"kill"...just,"save yourself". I guess we'll see what the jury thinks of TM's messages.

I think how the jury perceives all of this depends on the extent to which the state can meet the greater reasonable doubt standard with its cumulative evidence. Or conversely, how well the defense performs in dismantling the state's case and creating doubt in the jury's mind.

 

[Madeleine74]

The only evidence refuted that we are aware of was the location of "the DNA" found. When LE said they found and would be having DNA tested by their crime lab, there is *no way* they could know in advance whose DNA it would turn out to be that was collected. The mistake was either by LE or the lab itself, identifying "the DNA sample" as being found in the M's truck when it was really taken from HE's car. We don't yet know who made this mistake but I doubt it was intentional. The arrest was made before any DNA testing and did not depend on DNA results.

We now have learned it was in fact HE's DNA but the location it was collected was not from the M's truck. Okay, that's one less piece of evidence but let's not throw the entire case out the window because of one error, and especially when the case hasn't gone to trial AND all the evidence hasn't been revealed yet.

The defense claims the vehicle on video only appears as a "black blob". The state says, "no, you can tell it's a black truck." Let's wait and see what it appears to be.

 

[Motherof5]

I think how the jury perceives all of this depends on the extent to which the state can meet the greater reasonable doubt standard with its cumulative evidence. Or conversely, how well the defense performs in dismantling the state's case and creating doubt in the jury's mind.

I think the jury will also wonder why SM lied to LE,more than once,about calling Heather that night and only told the truth when he was certain that he was caught in the lie. If he had nothing to do with this,there would be no reason to lie. That bit about...they still have payphones? Why yes they do SM, this a video of you using one. Cracked me up.

 

[bestill]

The only evidence refuted that we are aware of was the location of "the DNA" found. When LE said they found and would be having DNA tested by their crime lab, there is *no way* they could know in advance whose DNA it would turn out to be that was collected. The mistake was either by LE or the lab itself, identifying "the DNA sample" as being found in the M's truck when it was really taken from HE's car. We don't yet know who made this mistake but I doubt it was intentional. The arrest was made before any DNA testing and did not depend on DNA results.

We now have learned it was in fact HE's DNA but the location it was collected was not from the M's truck. Okay, that's one less piece of evidence but let's not throw the entire case out the window because of one error, and especially when the case hasn't gone to trial AND all the evidence hasn't been revealed yet.

The defense claims the vehicle on video only appears as a "black blob". The state says, "no, you can tell it's a black truck." Let's wait and see what it appears to be.

The DNA could have been anywhere, just because the lab erred and it wasn't Heather's DNA in the truck that doesn't mean it wasn't found in the house or with some of the evidence that LE removed. Of course the defense is going to make a big deal about the lab's error and spin it. I do believe that there's more DNA than we've told about, we've only heard what was enough for the M's arrest.

 

[jillycat]

The DNA could have been anywhere, just because the lab erred and it wasn't Heather's DNA in the truck that doesn't mean it wasn't found in the house or with some of the evidence that LE removed. Of course the defense is going to make a big deal about the lab's error and spin it. I do believe that there's more DNA than we've told about, we've only heard what was enough for the M's arrest.

LE said after the bond hearing that this is not a DNA case. So if they have DNA, it must not explain much.

 

[Motherof5]

Curious about these notes, do you think they have some of them?

I find the note thing to be odd. Heather wouldn't answer 90 some calls from SM's phone so he went to a payphone. This sounds like someone who is all done and avoiding someone. I will need these notes to be verified that they were actually written by Heather and placed after the affair was over. It just sounds hinky to me. JMO

 

[magnolia]

47 days is just enough time to collect information, plot and plan the murder of a certain 20 year old that has enraged a psycho, jealous older woman.

I just wonder why of all the secluded places around MB,Tammy would have planned the murder to include PTL? Most likely this is a place where Sidney and Heather met before. Possibly a regular meeting place that HE told her friends about. Why chose a place so close to their home ??

In the process of planning a murder, she leaves evidence of 90+ phone calls. I guess one might assume this psycho was so out of control she could not refrain from calling Heather. If so out of control, I wonder how, for 47 days, she refrained from acting on the rage reflected in the first of November text messages.

 

[magnolia]

I find the note thing to be odd. Heather wouldn't answer 90 some calls from SM's phone so he went to a payphone. This sounds like someone who is all done and avoiding someone. I will need these notes to be verified that they were actually written by Heather and placed after the affair was over. It just sounds hinky to me. JMO

The 90+ phone calls in a two hour period seems hinky to me. Not saying there were no phone calls, but, the 90+ is a little over the top which makes it hard to believe.

 

[Motherof5]

The 90+ phone calls in a two hour period seems hinky to me. Not saying there were no phone calls, but, the 90+ is a little over the top which makes it hard to believe.

Over the top...agreed. But IMO...TM is way over the top.

 

[NFYIAMY]

Per the defense attorney:
I'm wondering how the phone calls from Heather via using other phones plays into all this. Also, notes left on Sidney's vehicle.

...And if TM was going to work WITH him suddenly.....how many of those notes did TM find as opposed to SM finding them? Just one more thing that could've kept TM miserable and angry. What those notes may have said could add fuel to that fire, no?

Also want to comment on the text messages. I do think we may very well find out that the last text "dad no longer has a phone" was sent from someone other than TM or SM. Gotta wonder what they really know/don't know.

 

[NFYIAMY]

47 days is just enough time to collect information, plot and plan the murder of a certain 20 year old that has enraged a psycho, jealous older woman.

I wonder if the diary they found will correspond with the 47 days?