EVIDENCE - Pro and Con

[PeterThomasFan]

One thing that bothers me..... no matter how HE's vehicle got to PTL, why did LE allow TE to drive it home? I would have thought that it would have been evidence and should have been put in compound. Anyone have any thoughts on that?

Already discussed that way back when.

Or should I say, disgust.

Thing is, LE did not initially declare PTL a crime scene until 2 months later when they say Heather was killed there IMO.


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[POODLE MOM]

I'm not suggesting anyone should have or must have the answer here. But detailed theories are being explored and I am reading and trying to follow along and then I realized what we have are:

- 3 people involved that we know of (TM, SM, HE)
- 2 cell phones involved that we know of (SM, HE). Where TM's cell phone was during this time is unknown.
- 1 payphone involved
- 2 vehicles involved that we know of (SM black truck, HE car)


The payphone is an immovable object and it's location and time of use is fixed, so that's a good data point. Plus there is CCTV video .

The cell phones provide information such as ping data to towers and GPS data (at least HE's does, not sure about the M's phones yet), so that will show what phone(s) were active and when and generally where those phones were when they were transmitting.

The movement of the cell phones helps to provide context in looking at the timeline. It's true we don't have the data except for a couple snippets the state used in their bond hearing #1.

For a cohesive theory, the movement of the cell phone(s) can't be thrown out of the equation because they were in use that night/morning.

As for the movement of vehicles: IF SM went to HE's condo then he must have driven there himself OR gotten a ride from someone OR Heather picked him up from somewhere.

- IF SM drove himself to HE's apt he had a vehicle (truck).
- IF SM got a ride over he was with someone else on the way and that person may have stayed nearby or may have left, either way SM would not have his own vehicle to use by himself because the person with him would have to leave the area too.
- IF Heather picked SM up and took him to her condo, her cell phone pings don't indicate that, as the state says she did not leave her apt/condo until she went to PTL around 3:20am.

IF SM killed HE at her apt/condo he had to remove her body in some way and then transport it somewhere, using some kind of vehicle.

His possibilities for transporting a dead Heather were:

- one of his trucks (black one or red one)
- HE's car
- Someone else with a completely different vehicle came and picked up HE's body and helped them out.

During all these events cell phones are in people's possessions and those cell phones are communicating with towers that can track their location. TM's cell phone was in her own possession, I imagine. SM's cell phone might have been in TM's possession or might have been in SM's possession. HE's cell phone was in her own possession at least through 2:30am and after that we don't know.

Again, I'm *not* saying anyone here on WS should have all the answers as that's impossible since all the information hasn't been released.

Perhaps the cell phone pings and GPS movement and other data bits allows the state to know the movement of people involved.

I have followed this case from close to the beginning, Heather's case is what brought me here. I have only posted a couple of times,once was referring to a boat and trailer without tail lights. I wish I had taken a snapshot of a post I had read, asking if anyone had seen a boat and trailer at or around peachtree landing without lights. At the time I read it I thought they were referring to the police asking the question. I have always thought that SM and TM had help disposing of Heather. Does anyone remember hearing about a boat? I looked back and posted it in Feb.2014. I wish I could remember where I read this. I have never been able to get past this.

 

[CellarDoor]

Here is something that has stuck out to me-

1/28/14- SM texts TM's sister to check on TM & kids.. Also says "I know you are her sister and I f'd her over".
This appears to refer to his affair with HE. His f'ing her over could refer to his decision to leave her and choose Heather.
But TM has apparently taken her kids to her sister's house and goes on a drinking binge. The affair isn't news to TM, it's been "over" for three months and TM's texts to HE, along her handcuffing him/taking his phone/accompanying him to work are proof of this.

2/2/14 SM texts TM- "I admit I made a horrible choice choosing someone that was *ed up but I think I can change both of our future together and for the better..."

In the 2/2 text there's a possibility of some syntactic ambiguity. He could be saying he made a horrible choice by choosing to cheat on TM with an unstable individual. "I chose to cheat on you with a girl that was crazy", OR he could be saying he's sorry for choosing HE over TM when she gave him an ultimatum- "I'm sorry for choosing someone, that was f'd up. But I think I can make things better between us."

Not that this solves anything, but just something to consider..

 

[TTF14]

Here is something that has stuck out to me-

1/28/14- SM texts TM's sister to check on TM & kids.. Also says "I know you are her sister and I f'd her over".
This appears to refer to his affair with HE. His f'ing her over could refer to his decision to leave her and choose Heather.
But TM has apparently taken her kids to her sister's house and goes on a drinking binge. The affair isn't news to TM, it's been "over" for three months and TM's texts to HE, along her handcuffing him/taking his phone/accompanying him to work are proof of this.

2/2/14 SM texts TM- "I admit I made a horrible choice choosing someone that was *ed up but I think I can change both of our future together and for the better..."

In the 2/2 text there's a possibility of some syntactic ambiguity. He could be saying he made a horrible choice by choosing to cheat on TM with an unstable individual. "I chose to cheat on you with a girl that was crazy", OR he could be saying he's sorry for choosing HE over TM when she gave him an ultimatum- "I'm sorry for choosing someone, that was f'd up. But I think I can make things better between us."

Not that this solves anything, but just something to consider..

Are the dates on those texts correct? HE was already gone by then.

 

[Motherof5]

Are the dates on those texts correct? HE was already gone by then.

I think,from the bond hearing, they were after the M's got back from their "trip". I love TM saying that she's going to pack up her camper and run to Canada. If you've done nothing wrong,why the need to run?

 

[spiritseeker31]

I have followed this case from close to the beginning, Heather's case is what brought me here. I have only posted a couple of times,once was referring to a boat and trailer without tail lights. I wish I had taken a snapshot of a post I had read, asking if anyone had seen a boat and trailer at or around peachtree landing without lights. At the time I read it I thought they were referring to the police asking the question. I have always thought that SM and TM had help disposing of Heather. Does anyone remember hearing about a boat? I looked back and posted it in Feb.2014. I wish I could remember where I read this. I have never been able to get past this.

IIRC LE were looking for anyone who spotted the boat and trailer but later decided it was of no consequence.

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[TedMac]

One thing that bothers me..... no matter how HE's vehicle got to PTL, why did LE allow TE to drive it home? I would have thought that it would have been evidence and should have been put in compound. Anyone have any thoughts on that?

BBM The call to LE concerning the car originally came in as an abandoned vehicle. The investigating officer went to the scene and did not see anything in the vehicle that caused him concern. He ran the license plate and it discovered it was registered to HE's father. The officer went to the Elvis home and alerted Terry that the vehicle was abandoned at PTL and the person calling it in had said it had been there for over 24 hours. Terry having an extra key, rode with the Officer to PTL and drove it to his home. Neither the Officer or TE saw anything in the vehicle that caused them alarm. Terry described the vehicle as a "mess, but it was Heather's mess." This was the 1st anyone knew of Heather being missing and there was no missing persons report filed. Terry was concerned right away and he tried to call Heather, but her phone went straight to voice mail. Later, he filed the missing person's report.

As a former police officer, I can attest that LE get calls like this almost everyday. 99% of them turn out to be either, the vehicle is broken down, the driver was meeting with someone else for a ride to work, a concert, or about any reason such that would cause them to ride somewhere with another person. The Officer's initial concern was to notify the owner (Terry) and get the vehicle moved.

 

[TTF14]

BBM The call to LE concerning the car originally came in as an abandoned vehicle. The investigating officer went to the scene and did not see anything in the vehicle that caused him concern. He ran the license plate and it discovered it was registered to HE's father. The officer went to the Elvis home and alerted Terry that the vehicle was abandoned at PTL and the person calling it in had said it had been there for over 24 hours. Terry having an extra key, rode with the Officer to PTL and drove it to his home. Neither the Officer or TE saw anything in the vehicle that caused them alarm. Terry described the vehicle as a "mess, but it was Heather's mess." This was the 1st anyone knew of Heather being missing and there was no missing persons report filed. Terry was concerned right away and he tried to call Heather, but her phone went straight to voice mail. Later, he filed the missing person's report.

As a former police officer, I can attest that LE get calls like this almost everyday. 99% of them turn out to be either, the vehicle is broken down, the driver was meeting with someone else for a ride to work, a concert, or about any reason such that would cause them to ride somewhere with another person. The Officer's initial concern was to notify the owner (Terry) and get the vehicle moved.

BBM for emphasis.

But, I thought they knew almost immediately that a crime had occurred?

 

[TedMac]

BBM for emphasis.

But, I thought they knew almost immediately that a crime had occurred?

Terry immediately felt that something was wrong because he didn't think that Heather would leave her car there. But there was nothing that suggested a crime had been committed. He started calling her cell that evening. Both he and the Officer looked in the vehicle and didn't see anything (blood, etc.) that made them suspicious. IIRC, I believe the missing person report was filed until the next day.

 

[SStarr33]

One thing that bothers me..... no matter how HE's vehicle got to PTL, why did LE allow TE to drive it home? I would have thought that it would have been evidence and should have been put in compound. Anyone have any thoughts on that?

There is another case on here that the father drove home the murdered daughters car. I guess it happens.

 

[TTF14]

The probably erroneous "6am" aside, what is anyone thinking bout the existence of these private messages?

"They did say Elvis and Moorer exchanged communications between 2 and 6 a.m., mostly through private messaging, but investigators wouldn’t say what those discussions entailed either."

http://www.myhorrynews.com/news/crime/article_ada6ad1c-8f77-11e3-8ca7-001a4bcf6878.html

 

[SStarr33]

The probably erroneous "6am" aside, what is anyone thinking bout the existence of these private messages?

"They did say Elvis and Moorer exchanged communications between 2 and 6 a.m., mostly through private messaging, but investigators wouldn’t say what those discussions entailed either."

http://www.myhorrynews.com/news/crime/article_ada6ad1c-8f77-11e3-8ca7-001a4bcf6878.html

Yes, it has been driving me crazy. I want to know what those are because they could be the key

 

[bestill]

Here is something that has stuck out to me-

1/28/14- SM texts TM's sister to check on TM & kids.. Also says "I know you are her sister and I f'd her over".
This appears to refer to his affair with HE. His f'ing her over could refer to his decision to leave her and choose Heather.
But TM has apparently taken her kids to her sister's house and goes on a drinking binge. The affair isn't news to TM, it's been "over" for three months and TM's texts to HE, along her handcuffing him/taking his phone/accompanying him to work are proof of this.

2/2/14 SM texts TM- "I admit I made a horrible choice choosing someone that was *ed up but I think I can change both of our future together and for the better..."

In the 2/2 text there's a possibility of some syntactic ambiguity. He could be saying he made a horrible choice by choosing to cheat on TM with an unstable individual. "I chose to cheat on you with a girl that was crazy", OR he could be saying he's sorry for choosing HE over TM when she gave him an ultimatum- "I'm sorry for choosing someone, that was f'd up. But I think I can make things better between us."

Not that this solves anything, but just something to consider..

This is good. Two things stand out to me, SM uses run on sentences when he texts or types and no punctuation, so state could use this to show the message styles, pretty much tells which were from TM and which were from SM. Another point, obviously TM's sister knows a lot, hope she tells the truth under oath.

 

[Madeleine74]

Media reports can be wrong or worded in weird ways that aren't quite accurate. I saw that first-hand in some other cases. One of the "crime reporters/writers" of my local newspaper notoriously gets details incorrect in cases and it happens more often than you'd think. I take articles with a grain of salt, knowing the article is someone's interpretation of what they heard or thought they heard.

 

[Madeleine74]

Hindsight is 20/20. On 12/18 and into 12/19 no one outside of the killers, and anyone else they told, knew a murder had been committed. Heather wasn't yet considered missing until her father couldn't get ahold of her after picking up her seemingly abandoned car. People do the best they can with the information they have at the time. There was no known reason at the time the police called for the registered owner of that 'abandoned' car (Terry Elvis) not to remove the car when alerted the car was left at PTL. It doesn't mean LE screwed up, unless the expectation is that LE needs to be psychic and prescient and/or assume every call they receive means there's a murder that's been secretly committed.

 

[Madeleine74]

Just like a murder that happened in my town several yrs ago. A lot of finger pointing at police. The call was about a missing person, who police were told had been out "running and never came home." That call was the same day as the woman disappeared, about 8 hrs later. The police treated the case as a missing person case. Criticism later abounded, "WHY didn't police ask the estranged husband for the shoes and clothes he was wearing that morning?" A video surveillance of the estranged husband at a grocery store was seized from a local store and was looked at a few days later. By that point the wife had already been found murdered and dumped about 3 mi away, the husband had already lawyered up and was not talking to police, LE didn't realize the husband had changed the shoes he had been wearing that morning until later. But still.... it was LE's fault they didn't "ask" the husband for his clothes & shoes when no one even knew the wife was dead yet and later, when those shoes were never found during the execution of a search warrant, and were later called by prosecutors as "missing," well the shoes couldn't be missing if no one ASKED the husband to hand over those shoes that day or the next day (so the 'logic' went).

 

[PeterThomasFan]

Media reports can be wrong or worded in weird ways that aren't quite accurate. I saw that first-hand in some other cases. One of the "crime reporters/writers" of my local newspaper notoriously gets details incorrect in cases and it happens more often than you'd think. I take articles with a grain of salt, knowing the article is someone's interpretation of what they heard or thought they heard.

You got that straight! I must have emailed reporters a gazillion times for typos and mistakes.


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[jellybeanz]

I have followed this case from close to the beginning, Heather's case is what brought me here. I have only posted a couple of times,once was referring to a boat and trailer without tail lights. I wish I had taken a snapshot of a post I had read, asking if anyone had seen a boat and trailer at or around peachtree landing without lights. At the time I read it I thought they were referring to the police asking the question. I have always thought that SM and TM had help disposing of Heather. Does anyone remember hearing about a boat? I looked back and posted it in Feb.2014. I wish I could remember where I read this. I have never been able to get past this.

I posted about a boat a few times last year...

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...mains-that-were-found&p=10866509#post10866509

 

[Surfside]

This is good. Two things stand out to me, SM uses run on sentences when he texts or types and no punctuation, so state could use this to show the message styles, pretty much tells which were from TM and which were from SM. Another point, obviously TM's sister knows a lot, hope she tells the truth under oath.

BBM: Further making it obvious that SM's FB page was not really SM's FB page.

 

[jillycat]

The probably erroneous "6am" aside, what is anyone thinking bout the existence of these private messages?

"They did say Elvis and Moorer exchanged communications between 2 and 6 a.m., mostly through private messaging, but investigators wouldn’t say what those discussions entailed either."

http://www.myhorrynews.com/news/crime/article_ada6ad1c-8f77-11e3-8ca7-001a4bcf6878.html

That article has so many problems, it's anyone's guess what "private messaging" means, but I suspect it falls in line with 'we have theories', '...until 6 a.m.', and 'she drove there for sure, we think'. This piece has always struck me as a collision between really bad reporting, and LE word plays that have you wondering why they said anything at all.

From the article:

“We have a few theories."

"In a new development, police strongly believe that Elvis drove herself to the Peachtree Boat Landing in Socastee, where her 2001 Dodge Intrepid was discovered abandoned on Dec. 19.

"We're fairly comfortable that she drove there herself," Rhodes said.

Police do not think someone drove Elvis from River Oaks Drive to the boat landing.

Investigators also believe Elvis made it to the boat landing, but investigators would not elaborate about why Elvis drove to the boat landing or what may have happened when she arrived.

"Everything indicates that she drove there," said Lt. Chip Squires, the task force leader. "We do not have anything that indicates she did not drive there."

Investigators also confirmed earlier reports of cell phone communications between Heather Elvis and Sidney Moorer, a 38-year-old Horry County man with whom police records state she had a relationship history.

Those communications occurred as late as 6 a.m. Dec. 18, police records state."