Evidence

[lauriej]

Oh. Are you sure it wasn't a post by SES? lol.

.......'ain't that the truth?!"...good one jersey..........

...however..........we all know we love SES, i know i'd love to be able to post a long and deatiled post like SES does.......complete with info and facts.....
...my posts are such a jumble i'm surprised half the time that any one gets my point other than myself...

...once we go to trial here...........if.....when....hopefully.......... how lucky we are to have SES to be our "captain obvious" and note the tiniest things.......and then take the time to lay it all out for the rest of us.........
...good stuff SES..............keep it coming.........

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

I believe that Natalee Holloway already has all of the media attention she needs, (and that ALL victims deserve). This forum was started to spotlight the case of a beautiful young mother that's been overlooked by the media.

Personally, I don't mind if someone wants to bring another overlooked case to my attention. And I would love for more people to join our discussions here about Janet's case. But not 30 minutes go by on the television without hearing about Natalee again. We all wish that Janet would have received the same benefit but she hasn't. For that reason, can we please try to keep Natalee out of this forum, and allow Janet to have this tiny bit of space that we've devoted to her? I mean no disrespect but Natalee's story is all over the place, and this is the one and only place that is dedicated to Janet, and her virtually unpublicized case.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

...however..........we all know we love SES, i know i'd love to be able to post a long and deatiled post like SES does.......complete with info and facts.....

I completely agree. I adore SES!

Just poking some fun at you, SES, but with nothing but respect and admiration for your intelligence and your insights. You are INVALUABLE to this forum!!! :blowkiss:

 

[SouthEastSleuth]

.......'ain't that the truth?!"...good one jersey..........

...however..........we all know we love SES, i know i'd love to be able to post a long and deatiled post like SES does.......complete with info and facts.....
...my posts are such a jumble i'm surprised half the time that any one gets my point other than myself...

...once we go to trial here...........if.....when....hopefully.......... how lucky we are to have SES to be our "captain obvious" and note the tiniest things.......and then take the time to lay it all out for the rest of us.........
...good stuff SES..............keep it coming.........

You're kind LJ, but there were many, many people on Janet's forum toiling away, finding info, digging up the facts, etc., WAY before I finally decided to even join! So all of YOU guys are the ones to be congratulated, each and every day... Besides, I like to think we operate as one big team here anyway, with a CLEAR goal for us all - finding Janet's murderer and doing any and all we can to assure justice for Janet!


ps- Wow, that was hardly even a paragraph! (must be too early in the morning or something!)

 

[bluegirl]

That's a good point. When my husband and I were first starting out, we had some pretty bumpy financial times, (as many new couples do), and I don't think that I could have scraped enough cash together to service my car if I had wanted to. Unless Raven took the cars in for oil changes or something like that. You need to do that whether you can afford it or not. But I don't know why anyone in their right mind, (maybe that's the key), would put two cars in the shop for an oil change at the same time, leaving only one for himself while his wife and small child are stuck.

:laugh:

BTW, VOI? LOL - too funny.

Let's talk about the money thing... besides not being able to afford their cars being serviced HOW in the world did they even afford to have three cars?
We all know that Raven's stories are all untrue.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Let's talk about the money thing... besides not being able to afford their cars being serviced HOW in the world did they even afford to have three cars?

I guess that is the bigger question - how they could afford all of those vehicles, and why on Earth they would have needed three vehicles anyway. It certainly wasn't to insure that Janet and Kaiden wouldn't have been stranded with no transportation in the event that one of the cars needed service.

He couldn't have had a friend pick him up for the game, and leave the car for Janet that night?

 

[ewwwinteresting]

I guess that is the bigger question - how they could afford all of those vehicles, and why on Earth they would have needed three vehicles anyway. It certainly wasn't to insure that Janet and Kaiden wouldn't have been stranded with no transportation in the event that one of the cars needed service.

He couldn't have had a friend pick him up for the game, and leave the car for Janet that night?

Is it possible that Raven had the ability to think of someone but himself?:loser:

 

[ewwwinteresting]

Let's talk about the money thing... besides not being able to afford their cars being serviced HOW in the world did they even afford to have three cars?
We all know that Raven's stories are all untrue.

I don't think they ACTUALLY could afford three cars and a motorcycle. He had to steal to support his unable to support himself lifestyle. He was behind on his payments, wasn't current on the taxes and had to sell the motorcycle. All of this AFTER his second job ("embezzlementing") was taking away from him.

What I don't get is why the landlord and his church helped him out with the rent when he has so many "toys" that could have been sold for funds.:waitasec:

 

[snapple]

What I don't get is why the landlord and his church helped him out with the rent when he has so many "toys" that could have been sold for funds.:waitasec:

Good question! I would imagine that since we do know that Raven is quite the convincing liar:liar: , he probably came up with believable stories to get the help he "needed".

 

[ewwwinteresting]

Good question! I would imagine that since we do know that Raven is quite the convincing liar:liar: , he probably came up with believable stories to get the help he "needed".

Yes, I suspected he lied about his circumstances, but didn't his church leader and landlord notice all of his material possessions? He had hometeachers in his house. I'm sure they noticed all of the vehicles in the driveway...and, of course, we aren't talking about 1987 Ford Escorts (no offense to anybody that owns one). We are talking about a souped up, everything new and state of the art Vehicross, a souped up, state of the art Ducati, a new Acura and a not so old Durango! He also had the mountain bikes that would have brought sufficient funds to help pay his rent. What's wrong with, until we get on our feet, we can only have one car and have to carpool idea? But NO, why sacrifice or face the consequences of your decisions, when it is much easier to just have other people pay for your bad business decisions!

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Good question! I would imagine that since we do know that Raven is quite the convincing liar:liar: , he probably came up with believable stories to get the help he "needed".

And what makes this really horrible to me is that most of us have pride that makes it really difficult for us to ask for help. We want to be independent; we want to do the right thing, and it hurts us to think that we can't support our families. Did it never embarass Raven to ask for a hand-out?

Hopefully the next family that needs some help won't be handled suspiciously by those people that Raven scammed.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

What's wrong with, until we get on our feet, we can only have one car and have to carpool idea?

Well no, they needed at least two because Raven, the noble and doting father / devoted husband would never consider leaving his wife and young child alone at night without a car.

 

[ewwwinteresting]

And what makes this really horrible to me is that most of us have pride that makes it really difficult for us to ask for help. We want to be independent; we want to do the right thing, and it hurts us to think that we can't support our families. Did it never embarass Raven to ask for a hand-out?

Hopefully the next family that needs some help won't be handled suspiciously by those people that Raven scammed.

I'm guessing this wasn't embarrassing to Raven at all. This begging for free money seems like an Abaroa family trait. Janet must have been mortified!

 

[ewwwinteresting]

Well no, they needed at least two because Raven, the noble and doting father / devoted husband would never consider leaving his wife and young child alone at night without a car.

Silly me for thinking since it was Raven who caused this whole mess, it would be Raven that was the one carpooling, walking, using public transportation, riding his bike, leaving his dear wife and young child with the car:doh:

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Silly me for thinking since it was Raven who caused this whole mess, it would be Raven that was the one carpooling, walking, using public transportation, riding his bike, leaving his dear wife and young child with the car:doh:

You must be thinking of good fathers & husbands; the ones that actually put their families before themselves rather than just pretending to.

 

[bluegirl]

I don't think they ACTUALLY could afford three cars and a motorcycle. He had to steal to support his unable to support himself lifestyle. He was behind on his payments, wasn't current on the taxes and had to sell the motorcycle. All of this AFTER his second job ("embezzlementing") was taking away from him.

What I don't get is why the landlord and his church helped him out with the rent when he has so many "toys" that could have been sold for funds.:waitasec:

I understand that they couldn't ACTUALLY afford three cars.. but didn't Janet know that also. Just knowing Janet she would have made an effort to get rid of some of the "material items" so that she could be at home with the baby.
Heck that may be what started a fight and led to her death for all we know!

I'm just as confused as you are about the church helping them out when they had all that stuff. It just doesn't make any sense

 

[ItsMe]

I'm just as confused as you are about the church helping them out when they had all that stuff. It just doesn't make any sense

The LDS church will try to help anyone in need, for a time, until they can get back on their feet. It takes time to sell off things. So, the church will provide food and money for rent and utilities for the couple of months needed to get a job or sell off "toys". It's not as embarrassing as taking assistance from the government. There is no paper work to fill out or any lines to stand in. You just have to set up an appointment with the local Bishop. The meeting is discreet; the only person in the room beside the person in need is the Bishop. It's possible that Raven asked without Janet being there with him and told the Bishop they had lost their jobs. Or, it is possible that Raven coped to the whole embezzlement thing and started his repentance process and asked for assistance until he could find a job. The Bishop would probably still give them assistance thinking that Raven was a good person who made a wrong decision, but was making amends. I think it is entirely possible that Raven lied to Janet and told her that he didn't embezzle and this was all a big mix up that he needed to sort through. My guess is he'd been lying to her probably most of their lives together. So, he could have easily lied to the Bishop and landlord and she would have thought it was the truth. However, this will in no way deter their Bishop from helping other families in need.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

I think it is entirely possible that Raven lied to Janet and told her that he didn't embezzle and this was all a big mix up that he needed to sort through.

This would have been a very difficult lie to continue once the court dates started. At some point, Janet would have learned the truth. Sorry to mention Mark Hacking on this thread yet again but somehow that case keeps popping up here.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

So, he could have easily lied to the Bishop and landlord and she would have thought it was the truth. However, this will in no way deter their Bishop from helping other families in need.

That's wonderful to hear. It would be awful if Raven's actions would have caused them to rethink their charitable actions. I think it's wonderful how the church comes through for people, and how they give people a second chance in spite of a huge mistake. Here's hoping that Raven didn't snooker them.

 

[lauriej]

You're kind LJ, but there were many, many people on Janet's forum toiling away, finding info, digging up the facts, etc., WAY before I finally decided to even join! So all of YOU guys are the ones to be congratulated, each and every day... Besides, I like to think we operate as one big team here anyway, with a CLEAR goal for us all - finding Janet's murderer and doing any and all we can to assure justice for Janet!


ps- Wow, that was hardly even a paragraph! (must be too early in the morning or something!)

...yes, i wasn't in the least meaning to take away from the many others who have , and are, putting time and effort into this case....not at all..

...i just returned from a week in the mountains, got caught up tonight thanks to MANY posters........
...none the less.........your essay-style posts are appreciated, we DO read them..

...the common goal.........keeping this forum alive..........justice will prevail in the end..and i know that's what we're ALL here for...