Evidence

[ewwwinteresting]

That's been bothering me to no end. I don't see soccer clothing listed anywhere in the search warrant even though his alibi is that he was playing soccer. It doesn't seem to make sense to me that no soccer gear was collected.

What soccer gear would Raven have worn? Cleats for sure, I would think. Other than that, he could have played in a shirt and shorts. However, his soccer resume indicates he was a goalie...do they wear more equipment?

If this game wasn't a planned "game" to attend, I would think he just went to the field to create his alibi...maybe didn't even play in the game? Just sat and watched the game in his clothes (sweatshirt). I would hope LE didn't take his word on that and verified that the clothes they took the next day were the actual clothes Raven was wearing at the soccer field.

Then, again, if Raven was the murderer, I'm sure he changed his clothes, got rid of them (burned them, buried them, dumped them) and the clothes he wore to the game are insignificant to the crime!

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

You could be right about all of the above. I just keep assuming that he would have been wearing a uniform. But for a pick-up game, probably not. I have to check the search warrant again. From what is available, does it look like they took cleats, a cup, a duffel bag if he changed his clothes at the field ... ? Significant or not, I'm still surprised that certain things don't appear to have been collected.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

What was Janets relationship with her sister? What do we know about the sister, is she married?

I'm sorry, mysteriew. I misspoke earlier. Janet is one of 10 children; 7 girls and 3 boys. From what I've learned, the siblings got along very well (and I imagine they still do), and Janet was always considered "the peacemaker".

 

[Jenifred]

What soccer gear would Raven have worn? Cleats for sure, I would think. Other than that, he could have played in a shirt and shorts. However, his soccer resume indicates he was a goalie...do they wear more equipment?

I dated a goalie in high school. They've got gloves and they wear fancier jerseys.

I don't think that he would wear cleats to the game, he'd probably wear other athletic shoes to the game and then switch shoes before playing.

I just think he would have had a bag of soccer stuff. Maybe it's just because I'm a female that I would think he'd bring a bag. Things that would be useful--a towel to dry off with, a water bottle, a sweatshirt just in case it got chilly, warm up pants, etc.

 

[ewwwinteresting]

They did take a gatorade bottle out of the Durango. Wonder if it was just thrown in there or in a bag?

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

They did take a gatorade bottle out of the Durango. Wonder if it was just thrown in there or in a bag?

I imagine that it was just sitting in a cup holder because if it was in a bag, I believe that they would have taken the bag too. Or at least made note of it at the very least.

 

[ewwwinteresting]

I imagine that it was just sitting in a cup holder because if it was in a bag, I believe that they would have taken the bag too. Or at least made note of it at the very least.

This just doesn't make sense to me. Hopefully we do not have an entire list of the items taken. Was the Gatorade Raven's? If so, why couldn't they use his DNA from the bottle? I guess it could have been Janet's and only her DNA was found on it.

You have someone that went to play soccer as an alibi and there are no items listed to reflect the soccer game...cleats, jersey, water bottle or other type of drink, towel, etc. Was this botched by LE? Too zealous and overlooked very important items that should have been taken??

 

[hoppyfrog]

What soccer gear would Raven have worn? Cleats for sure, I would think. Other than that, he could have played in a shirt and shorts. However, his soccer resume indicates he was a goalie...do they wear more equipment?

If this game wasn't a planned "game" to attend, I would think he just went to the field to create his alibi...maybe didn't even play in the game? Just sat and watched the game in his clothes (sweatshirt). I would hope LE didn't take his word on that and verified that the clothes they took the next day were the actual clothes Raven was wearing at the soccer field.

Then, again, if Raven was the murderer, I'm sure he changed his clothes, got rid of them (burned them, buried them, dumped them) and the clothes he wore to the game are insignificant to the crime!

Goalie gear: In a pickup game he could have worn just shorts and a t-shirt. It's possible that as a goalie he wore a sweatshirt and/or sweatpants. That way he'd be more protected against scrapes when he dove for the ball. They do make special goalie pants that are tight-fitting and stretchy but also have some padding in them to protect tthe wearer when diving for the ball.

He would not have worn cleats to or from the game, but changed into them at the game. Too difficult/uncomfortable to drive in or even walk around in.

Hoppy, who parents a gang of soccer nuts :woohoo:

 

[hoppyfrog]

That's been bothering me to no end. I don't see soccer clothing listed anywhere in the search warrant even though his alibi is that he was playing soccer. It doesn't seem to make sense to me that no soccer gear was collected.

If it was a pickup game, there were probably no "official" soccer clothes to list, i.e. no uniform. He prob. wore whatever sweats/t's/shorts he had close at hand.

Hoppy

 

[hoppyfrog]

Mysteriew--I like the idea of shoes playing a part in this mystery. I didn't ever realize that there were 4 pairs of shoes taken!

sketchers size 10 (black)
nike sandals (black)
adidas size 10 (multi)
Climcool size 10-1/2 (multi)

But they leave the soccer kleats on the doorstep? And where is Raven's bag of soccer gear? Do we really think that LE would not have taken that into evidence if it was lying around the house or inside the car?

He prob. had a LOT of soccer gear around, cleats, bags, etc. I'm guessing LE took the stuff that he indicated he had used that evening (not that LE should have believed him).

Hoppy

 

[hoppyfrog]

I have a question. What was Janets relationship with her sister? What do we know about the sister, is she married?

I'm curious about what you are trying to 'get at' with these questions. Wanna share? Thanks.

Hoppy

 

[hoppyfrog]

There are two key differences in those cases, however. Natalee's case is international - lots of diplomatic factors could be influencing the direction that that investigation takes, AND the FBI is involved in her case. In Kevin Fox's case, how long was he sitting in prison wrongfully, (okay GM - I admit I was wrong!!! ), before his DNA was finally tested? And the tests in his case were done in order to exonerate him. And wasn't there some sort of hold-up regarding his DNA?

And in Natalee's case there is a very, very vocal family pushing both local LE and the FBI. Good for her family, I say.

In Kevin Fox's case, I believe he was sitting in prison wrongfully for 7 months.

Hoppy

 

[ewwwinteresting]

And in Natalee's case there is a very, very vocal family pushing both local LE and the FBI. Good for her family, I say.

In Kevin Fox's case, I believe he was sitting in prison wrongfully for 7 months.

Hoppy

Thanks for answering questions regarding the soccer equipment/uniform. So, it would seem, he would have just had regular clothes on. The only think missing from the search warrant would be cleats unless one of those shoes listed are cleats?

I agreee whole heartedly with you and the family being very, very vocal. It seems that is what pushes LE, unfortunately.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

This just doesn't make sense to me. Hopefully we do not have an entire list of the items taken. Was the Gatorade Raven's? If so, why couldn't they use his DNA from the bottle? I guess it could have been Janet's and only her DNA was found on it.

I'm going to assume that the Gatorade bottle was Raven's. It was a weeknight, and as far as we know they both worked that day and had their home teachers over in the evening so it's doubtful that they had had time to go anywhere together that day after work. They had separate cars, and Raven played soccer that night. Also, knowing how he seems to be about his vehicles, I can't imagine that he would have left that bottle in there for too long after he was finished with it. Frankly, I'm surprised that it was found in the vehicle at all. Maybe it was left there intentionally to give a certain impression or help with an alibi, who knows?

This brought up another thought. Since only one car was on the scene that night, and we speculated about whether the cars were at a garage, etc., how would Janet have gotten to and from work without her car that day? If the car was at a garage, what time was it dropped off? After work or did Janet get a ride to and from work? And if it was indeed in a garage, why on Earth would you take your car in to be serviced on a Tuesday if both you and your spouse work? Wouldn't you take it in on a Friday afternoon or a Saturday morning? That's very curious to me.

In any case, if Raven did drive Janet to or from work or they dropped her car off somewhere after work then I guess it is possible that that was Janet's Gatorade bottle. Yet something tells me that it was Raven's. But if so, why didn't he take it out of the car that night? I would leave it there overnight under certain circumstances but I just can't see Raven doing that with one of his beloved toys.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

He would not have worn cleats to or from the game, but changed into them at the game. Too difficult/uncomfortable to drive in or even walk around in.

I totally agree but I think that LE would have taken them no matter what since they don't know what time the murder happened or whether Raven, if the perp, had been wearing them at the time or picking them up afterwards, etc.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

If it was a pickup game, there were probably no "official" soccer clothes to list, i.e. no uniform. He prob. wore whatever sweats/t's/shorts he had close at hand.

I think you're probably right. I'll have to check the warrant again because I can't remember anymore what was listed. And of course there are the couple of items that were conveniently missing from the warrant that was released.

ETA: I wonder why LE would release the warrant at all, especially if they were going to omit a couple of items. Maybe they wanted us Internet sleuthers to do some leg work.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Thanks for answering questions regarding the soccer equipment/uniform. So, it would seem, he would have just had regular clothes on.

I'm not saying that Raven IS guilty but it would be very convenient for a murderer to play in a pick-up game as opposed to an "official" game. Unknown teammates, you can tell LE you wore whatever you want them to think that you wore ...

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

In Kevin Fox's case, I believe he was sitting in prison wrongfully for 7 months.

I wish I remembered the details of that case more clearly. 7 months to get the DNA back to prove that he didn't murder his daughter? And we're only at slightly over 3 months with Janet's case. So maybe we'll know something by Christmas.

 

[mysteriew]

The difference in that case though was that they didn't have a body. Janet's body was at the scene. Wouldn't that make it more likely that LE would make a quicker arrest?

Even before they had a body, they were looking at Peterson. They watched him. Even before they named him, everyone was saying "why don't they arrest Snotty" they were watching him, but not naming him.

When LE arrives on the scene, they have to look at it as though it was a murder by an unknown perp. They have to take the witnesses word for events- until another witness or forensics disproves that. They take evidence that has been at the scene. ie Ravens clothes were at the scene. His soccer things were either left in the vehicle or dropped in the laundry room. Therefore wouldn't have been in direct contact with the crime scene.
They would need a warrant for those, and since this was a pickup game he was probably wearing the shorts he wore for the game.
Since there is nothing at this point to connect the soccer bag to the crime scene- there is no probable cause for the warrant.
Vehicles. The Durango was parked at the house, the VX was a couple of blocks over. The jeep was probably already with the friend who it was later given to. (What year was the jeep? I am thinking it was probably a beater used for off roading and that is why Raven didn't see it as having enough value to sell)
My theory- They had the home teaching that night. Raven leaves for a pick up soccer game (indicates the game was close to the home). Game over- he drives back to the house. Stab, stab murder done. Raven calls LE. States I was at soccer game, drove home found my wife. My wife has been shot. LE arrives and finds Raven in the yard (baby in crib). Body but no weapon. Home is searched- they look for the weapon, signs of disturbance, signs of motive (financial papers showing in the red), anything unusual (papers found on floor). And they also look for verification of Raven's alibi. Thus the vehicle search. Because the Acura wasn't named in the warrant, everyone assumes it wasn't searched- but they would only have named the Acura in the warrant if they found something that appeared to connect it to the crime. Search of it, probably came up with nothing. That is why it wasn't mentioned. Also why the bikes weren't mentioned. The only reason the Durango was mentioned was because they were using it to verify Raven's alibi. Interviewing Raven, they say ok the game was over and you left at time. You called us at . Why did it take so long. It is only so many minutes to the soccer field. Raven says oh, I stopped at the gas station and got something to drink (gatorade). That gives them the opening for the warrant for Durango. (info was not given initially, he said he came straight home).

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Since there is nothing at this point to connect the soccer bag to the crime scene- there is no probable cause for the warrant.

Okay - so this is something I didn't realize. I thought that a search warrant meant that they could take anything that they "felt" might be somehow related, and I thought that it would be up to the investigator to decide what was important and what was not.