Family battling Children’s Hospital to bring teen home for Christmas

[Linda7NJ]

Can anyone even confirm that she had the flu??


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[gitana1]

Gitana, I respectfully disagree. IMO

Families with open cases sometimes move out of state without notice and nothing is ever done. Children often fall through the cracks with a move simply to another county within the state.

It would be impossible, in this particular case because of the medical component and high profile nature of the case.

IMO


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Well that's true. But that's only because they can't find them. The questions as whether DCF follows a child if they are removed from the jurisdiction. Yes, if they know where hey are, they do. Both my parents worked for social services as do my brother and sister in law. I have knowledge of this through their jobs.

 

[lawstudent]

BBM. I didn't say anything about Mito. I said people don't usually die from symptoms.

I don't understand why you are saying - symptoms of what? Do you mean people don't die of symptoms in general?

The definition of a symptom:

a physical or mental feature that is regarded as indicating a condition of disease, particularly such a feature that is apparent to the patient. "dental problems may be a symptom of other illness"

For example, pneumonia is a symptom of AIDS, and could kill you. Blood clots are a symptom of certain types of cancers, and could kill you. Strokes are a symptom of very high blood pressure, and can kill you. Irregular heart function is a symptom of malnourishment and can kill you.

 

[Morag]

Ok. Her downward spiral started after ice skating ...and before the "flu"

Did she actually even have the flu?

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Christmas vacation would have been after ice skating. I wonder if her downward spiral started during the weeks before school started up again? She would have been at home all day. I wonder if she went back to school after vacation?

 

[Linda7NJ]

Christmas vacation would have been after ice skating. I wonder if her downward spiral started during the weeks before school started up again? She would have been at home all day. I wonder if she went back to school after vacation?

According to (iirc) one of the Globe articles, it started before school let out. School was on session, Justina was too fatigued to walk to the cafeteria and friends began eating with her in the classroom.


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[MyBelle]

I don't understand why you are saying - symptoms of what? Do you mean people don't die of symptoms in general?

The definition of a symptom:

a physical or mental feature that is regarded as indicating a condition of disease, particularly such a feature that is apparent to the patient. "dental problems may be a symptom of other illness"

For example, pneumonia is a symptom of AIDS, and could kill you. Blood clots are a symptom of certain types of cancers, and could kill you. Strokes are a symptom of very high blood pressure, and can kill you. Irregular heart function is a symptom of malnourishment and can kill you.

The chances are slim that one will die if their "symptoms" don't have a physiological cause.

Pneumonia isn't a symptom it is a diagnosis. Irregular heart beat is a symptom that may or may not have a physiological cause.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

According to (iirc) one of the Globe articles, it started before school let out. School was on session, Justina was too fatigued to walk to the cafeteria and friends began eating with her in the classroom.


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Didn't one of those articles also mention that Dr. Korson suggested half-day classes and the suggestion was rejected?

 

[jjenny]

Christmas vacation would have been after ice skating. I wonder if her downward spiral started during the weeks before school started up again? She would have been at home all day. I wonder if she went back to school after vacation?

She loved going to school.

 

[lawstudent]

The chances are slim that one will die if their "symptoms" don't have a physiological cause.

Pneumonia isn't a symptom it is a diagnosis. Irregular heart beat is a symptom that may or may not have a physiological cause.

JMO

Well we were talking specifically about symptoms resulting from mitochondrial disease.

I didn't realize that "a symptom can more simply be defined as any feature which is noticed by the patient - A sign is noticed by other people - Some features, such as pain, can only be symptoms, because they cannot be directly observed by other people. Other features can only be signs, such as a blood cell count measured in a medical laboratory."

But something like jaundice that may seem like a diagnosis is listed as a symptom since multiple things cause it. Since pneumonia has several possible causes and is just referring to inflammation of the lungs, I don't really see how it is different from jaundice. The AIDS page refers to pneumonia is a symptom of AIDS, but I think that is incorrect and you are right that it wouldn't be a symptom. But you still always die of a particular symptomatic characteristic and not a disease itself.

Also interesting: The term sign is not to be confused with the term indication, which denotes a valid reason for using some treatment.

 

[Linda7NJ]

She loved going to school.

???




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[wendiesan]

It's a bit late, but work (I'm not complaining, really) has been keeping me out of the loop. Someone asked about the Judge JJ's order.
It may have already been posted, but, just in case, this may be the document asked about.
http://c.o0bg.com/rw/Boston/2011-2020/2014/03/25/BostonGlobe.com/HealthScience/Graphics/SCAN.pdf

 

[MyBelle]

She loved going to school.

Yes, I believe this is true. But refresh my memory: Did the parents pay for the school or did the school provide it at the demand of the parents?

 

[MyBelle]

She loved going to school.

Indeed she probably did. That's all over now. I doubt she ever returns to a school setting and will instead receive a structured program that will allow her to learn at her own pace.

 

[liljim]

Somebody may have said this already, but the Tufts team had been treating Justina's sister for several years, a muscle biopsy sent off to 2 different labs confirmed Mito in her case. She was treated successfully for it. Mito can be genetic and the expert doctor's in this case believed there were enough symptoms, combined with her sister's biopsy confirmation to treat her for Mito. She apparently was doing well, had a set back when she came down with flu and had secondary symptoms, that is why she was taken to BCH.

got a source for this? specifically the 2 labs "confirming" mitochondrial disease for the sister.

 

[lawstudent]

I wasn't talking about any symptoms from Mito. You listed conditions and actual problems with a physiological cause, not just "symptoms." This case has never had anything to do with AIDS. Time to refocus on key message points and come up with something more believable because this one is fading into the corner, fast.

I don't even know what your stance is - I think it's that Justina does not have mito and that Children's has done nothing wrong.

While I can't say conclusively, that's pretty much what I believe as well. I don't know what about what I'm saying is difficult to believe - I'm not even making an argument so I don't know what key points you are looking for.

Another poster wrote that if Justina died from one of the symptoms she was displaying, it contradicted the somataform diagnosis. I agreed. Then you told me no one dies of symptoms from psychological illnesses - and I said I know, and that's why I was agreeing with the other person that if she died (and I have no reason to believe it is that dire), then yes, it would give credence to the mito diagnosis.

And then you told me no one is talking about mito and that you don't die of symptoms from psychological illnesses. The initial conversation was about how fatal symptoms point to mito and not somatoform, but it's a needless debate because fortunately the poor girl is not dying. A symptom is an "actual problem."

What do you define a symptom as? I have no idea what Justina's actual symptoms are, so I'm not judging them, I'm just saying that I'm sure she will receive treatment for whatever her symptoms are regardless of the diagnostic dispute. This list includes common symptoms resulting from physiological and psychological issues, or both.

Partial list of symptoms:

jaundice (P58, P59, R17)
pain
convulsions (R56)
muscle cramps (R25.2)
hypothermia (T68)
hyperthermia (T670)
hallucination
headache
insomnia (F51.0, G47.0)
mania (F30)
paralysis
paranoia or persecution
suicidal ideation
tic
tremor
blurred vision
anorexia (R63.0)
bloating (R14)
diarrhea (A09, K58, K59.1)
nausea (R11)
chest pain (R07)
arrhythmia
alopecia
edema (R60)
hirsutism
itching (L29)
laceration
rash (R21)
labour pains

 

[MyBelle]

got a source for this? specifically the 2 labs "confirming" mitochondrial disease for the sister.

The sister is far removed from the patient. Seems to be some third world intervention, imo.

 

[lawstudent]

Are any other court motions, briefs, or orders publicly available?

 

[Linda7NJ]

I believe the sister does have mito and the parents got addicted to the special treatment that comes along with an exotic diagnosis. Perhaps they wished to replicate it.
Similar to those women that smother their own babies for the outpouring support and sympathy that follows.

I believe at a minimum whatever justinas diagnosis is ( perhaps it's a combination of both) her parents exaggerated and exacerbated her symptoms.

Pointing to her siblings as claiming Justina is safe because the others are okay is a mistake. Abusive parents often choose one child to single out and target. That's very common and not rare at all.


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[jjenny]

Justina can not walk. She has been in custody of DCF for 15 months. She is in a wheelchair.
BCH had to put the feeding tube into her despite claiming they are concerned over mother's request for a feeding tube.
Her hairline is receded.
Her gumline is receded.
To claim that her symptoms were somehow exaggerated makes no sense at all.

 

[jjenny]

Yes, I believe this is true. But refresh my memory: Did the parents pay for the school or did the school provide it at the demand of the parents?

What difference does it make regarding whether she loved going to school or not?